Refighting the Second War
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Jun 25th 2007 at 1:15PM
The WoW general forums have been on a bit of a nostalgia kick lately. First, someone posted old maps of Azeroth from WC1 and 2 for discussion. Now, Aest of Twisting Nether asks, "If somehow, the Horde and Alliance broke out into all out war, who would be left standing?" He also mentions that the Burning Legion, the Illidari and the Scourge have all taken a holiday, so they can't interfere.
Of course, the first time this happened, the humans banded together and took down the orcs after losing Stormwind. But like Aest mentions, things are different now. The Horde has been on a consistent upswing since the Second War, and is strong and united under the leadership of Thrall, whereas the Alliance has lost High Elves and have a very divided high command. Sure, the Blood Elves and the Forsaken are in the Horde less for "Yay, Horde" and more for "Let's get revenge on our enemies", but that works okay, especially since the Forsaken are in the weapons of mass destruction business.
Territory-wise, the Horde essentially controls all of Kalimdor. The two Alliance capital cities (Darnassus and the Exodar) and their two biggest military bases (Feathermoon Stronghold and Theramore) are all on islands, and thus easily cut off from the rest of the continent. The Horde also has a nice foothold in Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas, and even though the Alliance holds the center of the Eastern Kingdoms, Stonard, Grom'Gol, and Kargath are all strong outposts.
On the other hand, humans are the most populous race in Azeroth, and while the Alliance has lots of little divisions, the Horde has one big one that could break them (Orcs/Trolls/Taurens vs. Forsaken/Blood Elves.) Plus, the Alliance has better technology and their cities are made of actual walls, as opposed to the Horde's "let's throw up some tents and call it a day." And, as several Allies pointed out, Alterac Valley has shown that the Horde will go to pieces as soon as they're asked to defend anything.
In the end, it would probably come down to the Steamwheedle Cartel. Goblins historically have more Horde sympathies, and if they joined up, it would be the end of the Alliance. If they didn't, the Horde would probably take all of mainland Kalimdor but lose their allies in Undercity and Quel'Thalas, making it a draw. I can't see the Alliance taking Kalimdor, especially since their air force is dependent on engineering devices that blow up half the time.
What do you think? Who would win in a fight today -- the Horde or the Alliance?
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, Analysis / Opinion, Lore
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Beo Fraser Jun 25th 2007 1:36PM
It depends on how much we can count on the Gnomes and Night Elves - in the last war the Gnomes were pretty much out of it, and the Night Elves have always been reticent about descending down to help the lesser beings. Perhaps more recent events will have cemented that alliance further, however. Also, the addition of the Draenei - a fierce and passionate race, who would put their all into any battle they are forced into, would be a tremendous bonus. They have made friends of the Alliance, and I think will do anything to defend those friendships. Whereas the Blood Elves and the Forsaken are more interested in their own agendas.
I doubt the Steamwheedle Cartel would get involved - they have too much to lose in revenue they gain from both sides of the conflict.
Chris M Jun 25th 2007 1:28PM
"Sure, the Blood Elves and the Forsaken are in the Horde less for "Yay, Horde" and more for "Let's get revenge on our enemies""
I found that part extremely funny. Mainly just the 'Yay, Horde' part.
I have to agree with your logic. I can see Lordaeron being wiped clean by the Alliance- they truly have power there. Kalimdor is obviously in Horde control, and with Darnassus and the Exodar being on islands, they're noticeably harder to defend/flee. I think in a re-fight of the second war, the Night Elves and Draenei would be annihilated by the Horde forces. At which point the Undercity and Silvermoon would easily be taken over without defense in those areas. I imagine it might be possible for large numbers of Hordies to flee Silvermoon to the Undercity, and from the UC over to Kalimdor; but not enough to turn the tides.
In raw territory, Horde is in control. However it does seem it's very evened out.
Chris
Xonate Jun 25th 2007 1:30PM
It really depends. The Alliance has always managed to come together in the face of overwhelming odds. However, the Horde definitely have the advantage. It comes down, in my opinion, more to the kingdoms of Gilneas and Kul Tiras. Before the second war, Gilneas was, I believe, the second most militarily powerful human nation, following only Stromgarde. If Gilneas has retained its significant power by avoiding the third war, then it would be a huge force that would essentially give the Alliance the boost they need to take control of the Eastern Kingdoms. Kul Tiras would also add some extra kick to it, just to ensure the Alliance's victory. All of that said, however, the Alliance could never fully take Kalimdor, bringing to a stale mate, as was pointed out.
Tridus Jun 25th 2007 1:41PM
I agree with #2. Kul'tiras would make a real difference, because they're the world's Naval power. Islands are very easy to defend with a superior Navy. If Gilneas didn't get plague-infected, it should now have the worlds single strongest millitary. They've decided in the past that other Humans are better then Orcs, and they'd probably do so again, especially if they got the opportunity to annex Lordaeron in the process.
On the other front, can you really see the Undead or Blood Elves actually coming over to aid Horde defenders on Kalimdor? They're only using the Horde now to defend themselves, its highly unlikely they'd commit any forces to defending Orgrimmar.
Dracula Jones Jun 25th 2007 1:52PM
Ah, but you forget that Night Elf Hunters are like 90% of the entire population of Azeroth. If they ever realized the power they wield, all of Azeroth would be destroyed by boars named iownu and raptors named KrazyEyezKilla.
Argent Jun 25th 2007 1:47PM
in the end, logistics is what wins wars, and in that area i think the alliance pretty much has the upper hand.
saying darnassus is weak or hard to defend because it's an island also flies in the face of conventional wisdom.
technically, it would actually be the hardest capital city (well, perhaps besides ironforge) for the horde to sack because while they may control kalimdor's main landmass, they don't have much of a navy to blockade teldrassil, which pretty much means the alliance could resupply it at will, use it as a staging area for an invasion and in general, use it to their advantage.
if you've ever played naval sims, think of teldrassil as iceland.
the alliance general can be expected to field larger armies, have strong supply lines and (for want of a better term) also have a larger military industrial complex at their disposal.
not saying the alliance would rout the horde by any stretch, but i don't really think things are in the hordes favor, per se.
Aziraphale Jun 25th 2007 1:58PM
Dracula Jones wins, hands down
penza19 Jun 25th 2007 2:07PM
Alliance.
Why? - Because they have Karazhan (The only level 70 instance non-outlands) and they can farm phat lootz then go own the horde with Hellscream's axe and T4 helms.
Strongmark on Arthas Jun 25th 2007 2:13PM
Maybe the WoW movie will answer all these questions...
Ygoloxelfer Jun 25th 2007 2:16PM
The Alliance would have the Blasted Lands as well, so the Horde wouldn't be able to get to Outland either - this would make a huge difference with the loot issue mentioned above.
Also, to those who mentioned Gilneas and Kul Tiras, I have one word to say to you. Dalaran. The needs of their allies would force the Kirin Tor to remilitarise, and just imagine the power the Alliance would have at their disposal then.
Jalann Jun 25th 2007 2:27PM
The winner will be whoever sneaks the most Warlocks into enemy capital cities to summon armies. Go Locks!
Tony Jun 25th 2007 2:35PM
I would have to give the advantage to the Horde. If you look at the location of the main cities, the Horde will have the advantage of the ground that cover them. where will the alliance stage attacks? TB will by far be one of the toughest cities for the alliance to sack. mostly due to the elevation, but also any attack will be far from a supporting city.
The UC would not be that hard due to the fact that if they broke through it would all be lost to the alliance. but again where would the attack come from? the closest city is south shore and that is quit a walk. unless the alliance could stage in Pyere village (or what ever that small village is in silver pine) as for the SMC i think that after alliance took UC they might have a chance to take it. that could be the easiest city to sack if they had UC but without it they could be flanked by the forces of UC. for an attack on UC i would think it would come from ashenvill. but lets face it, OGM is the not going to be easy to sack. waves of alliance would be crushed in the drag, kinda spartan 300 style with still alot of area held behind the drag to attempt to fight through after.
as for the alliance cities the horde has various encampments that are not that far out of reach of IF and SW. not to mention that if IF or SW fell to the Horde that the other would soon be attacked due to the Horde having a very well fortified staging possition to attack from. Darnassus and the Exodar would be the hardest Cities to sack for the Horde. in thier defense the horde would have to cross water to get to them and the first waves would undoutably be crushed as the Horde established a beachhead to stage from. but with control of most of Kalimdor the Horde would have a vast number of reenforcements to throw at the island forts, it would just be a matter of time.
But that is just from a Horde only player's perspective. I dont know to much about the alliance's cities because of not playing that side. but i do think that having the cities of the alliance grouped together could hurt as much as help their war efforts.
Incendo Jun 25th 2007 2:53PM
Ok, well the big question then really hinges on what the Horde do internally doesn't it. As long as the Belfs and Undead can keep it together what has the alliance gained to improve their standing in this time period? Gnomes give some slight technological edge but that's a wash considering it's just as likely to destroy the Alliance with one button push. Dwarves and Nelfs are a lateral move at best.
The Horde on the other hand used to be Orcs. Since then they've diversified with Taurens, Undead, Trolls, and the Belfs. Five very diverse groups with different styles and strengths. Factor in the ability that the Forsaken would logically be able to add to their ranks from the fallen Humans and the Horde would eventually grow into an unstoppable wave crashing over the capitals.
nate Jun 25th 2007 3:05PM
Look at it this way, In WC3 there are four races, night elves, humans, undead, orcs.
The orc "race" included the tauren,trolls
The undead included the forsaken.
The night elves
The humans included the dwarves,blood elves
So after TFT and into wow it got divided like this.
The orc/tauren/troll race were joined by part of the undead race and what is left of the blood elves.
The human/dwarve race were united with gnomes, draenei and A COMPLETE RACE of night elves, So jus by numbers only the alliance have an overwhelming advantage.
And this is without even factoring in kul'tiras and gilneas, and that with the addition of Dalaran, i dont see how exactly the horde would overcome jus the sheer numbers of the alliance not to mention technology.
crazed Jun 26th 2007 4:28PM
I have a few comments.
One, the Alliance still has a reliable air force. Gyrphon riders as well as gyrocopters as seen frequently launching out of IF.
Two, do the forsaken have a reliable method of fielding new soldiers after being disconnected with the burning legion? I've never seen an undead baby..:)
Also it seems like the blood elves could sway to the alliance as they are the least tied to their faction it seems.
Mordiceius Jun 25th 2007 3:18PM
The problem is this: The Alliance is stupid. Humans have not been known through history for their wisdom. All the Horde needs to do is have the forsaken make a little brew and then spread it to the Alliance water supplies. BAM! Dead alliance and more undead troops as front line cannon fodder.
Kuhtarl Jun 25th 2007 3:17PM
Obvious huntarr drop.
Sirg Jun 25th 2007 3:26PM
I like the screenshot of the red alliance (Stromgarde) base.. It remembers me of the old War2 days..
I say the Horde would be in a tight spot, if cut from the Outlands (Nethergarde Keep is a big advantage), while the Alliance could (in theory) get support from their Outlands veterans. Besides, the Forsaken and Bloodelves are more selfish and might not fight aside the orcs until the very end.
However, there are several neutral factions, like Argent Dawn, Cenarion Circle, goblins that might turn the tide.
Arawn Jun 25th 2007 3:28PM
Whichever side the blood elves choses when the stuff hits the fan, wins.
Why?
Insanely destructive weapons.
The blood elves seem at this point in WoW's timeline about ten minutes away from having 'the bomb.' (mana bomb)
In addition, Patheleon had control of red crystal meteorites that spawn giant walking crystals *after* the initial devastation of the crystal's impact. (hellfire penninsula...those things hurt!)
Assuming they remain with the Horde, two or three of these suckers in or near Stormwind, Darnassus, or (for the most complete destruction) inside Ironforge would completely decimate the Alliance's ability to use major travel hubs.
nate Jun 25th 2007 3:31PM
Forsaken dont turn humans undead anyway. The scourge turns them undead, the forsaken jus awakens those already turned.
So as far as them raising the dead, that is arthas' scourge so that is nil.