Ret pallies to be improved
by Eliah Hecht 
Jun 27th 2007 at 1:04PM
Retribution paladins are in strong contention for most ridiculed build in WoW as today. Personally, I'm sure they don't deserve all the scorn that's thrown at them, but it's probably true that Ret is not as strong as many other trees. Well, Blizzard seems to have (finally) noticed this, and they're taking a look at it:Hello again, I just wanted to let you know that the developers have taken part of your suggestions, and are looking into improving the retribution paladin spec. You can probably expect something along the line of more sustained DPS in a raid and more raid utility, but we are not ready to reveal any details. This is still work in progress, so please be patient :)
Good news, eh? Or as one forum responder put it: "Hell, it's about time." So if Ret gets more sustained raid DPS and more raid utility, will you be happy with it? What would you change in the tree?
Filed under: Paladin, News items
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
kram Oct 17th 2008 6:01AM
Just been duelling a ret pali guild mate of mine. I'm on a elemental shammy. Up until the patch some of our duels would go for minutes...now it's seconds. Just a constant lockdown by the ret pali and it's over.
Danknugs Jan 15th 2009 10:17PM
Thank you blizzard! I know every spams that pallys are over powered but it is rooted to our great abilities in 1v1. Being a retribution raiding pally myself i get out dps'd by just about everyone with equal or even less gear. The only times I shine is with trash mobs of 3 or more.... yippy. Boss time my dps is lame. And why does the best dps Libram have to be only accessable by arena points? Since when are ret pallys good at arena? They are better now but not good enough for me to want to go get murdered and thats if I can find good teamates crazy enough to go with a ret pally. Please help Bliz. I like the nerf we are getting on our bubble. It doesn't affect me and it is needed. But we do need some buffing up for raids.
Sylvina Jun 27th 2007 1:07PM
I thought I heard the sound of a million raids dying at once because they don't have mana efficient healers anymore. :O
twankle Jun 27th 2007 1:10PM
I'm doing great dps'ing as ret.
just want some utility that others take notice of.
and threat reducing talents.
Tridus Jun 27th 2007 1:17PM
Its going to be a pretty tough slog convincing raid leaders that Ret is a viable spec, because the single biggest problem in doing it is the Holy tree.
So long as Paladins are widely considered the game's best single target healers and DPS is a dime a dozen, Ret will have an uphill battle.
The other problem is that its hard to measure just how effective a Ret Pally's utility is. They can add 2% damage to a group and 3% to all meleers crit rates, but figuring out what that actually translates into is much harder then reading "Rogue X is above Pally Y on damage meters."
A sustained DPS boost is probably all thats needed to actually balance it, but I'm not sure that anything short of an idiotically overpowered DPS tree would actually break the stranglehold that Holy Pallies have in the eyes of raid leaders.
Jon W. Jun 27th 2007 1:15PM
More Dots!!!!!
......
....
...
Okay Stop Dots.
Balasan Jun 27th 2007 1:17PM
I'm all for improved raid utility. In any PvE raid a ret paladin is a liability. Low DPS (yes, low. Equally geared Ret pally damage is very bad compared to most other DPS class and spec), lousy heals, bad threat generation for off-tanking. I've always hated nub ret pallies, and I never failed to laugh scornfully at noob ret pally in arenas (the type that doesn't heal), while they insist on dpsing me while I simply outheal them (even in my prot spec).
An increased DPS however I do not agree upon. Sustained probably is needed for raids, but A high DPS plate machine who can heal himself (or others) and can go immune just yells 'imbalance'. It's a fine line to tread here.
But I think Blizz can pull it off. DPS retnubs won't be happy, but I probably can love any utility that I can bring to the table should ret be buffed. Wonder what it'll be though... I've been thinking along the lines of improved judgements (+50% more healing/mana return on JoL/JoW would be lovely)
Peregrine May 27th 2008 10:44AM
I like how its either "low DPS" or "DPS machine". We're not asking to be a DPS machine. We just want to not have horrible DPS. Believe me, my retadin is pretty good, but there is a LOT of room for improvement, without imbalancing anything.
The biggest problem is that the two main Paladin abilites are polar opposites in terms of damage modifiers. Judgement takes straight Spell Damage, and Crusader Strike takes straight Weapon Damage. All Retribution really needs is an Attack Power ---> Spell Damage talent and maybe an improved Avenging Wrath talent, and we're set.
Soulbunny Jun 27th 2007 1:24PM
Blizzard only made 4 healing classes for the entire game. If you don't want to heal, go reroll a dps class. Stop wasting time.
Sylvina Jun 27th 2007 1:26PM
@6, the funny thing is 3 of those healing classes are hybrids. Go figure.
bill Jun 27th 2007 1:36PM
About time. If the class was a bit more viable, then raid leaders would consider having ret pallys. Keyword is consider, which currently isn't even being done for the most part. Just asking for a chance is all. You still need plenty of healers though.
Afterall, the "leveling spec" (as stated by the DEVs) should be the end game spec right?
Ekimus Jun 27th 2007 1:37PM
Err....Fix Shammys? Mine is gathering dust....
Paw Jun 27th 2007 1:38PM
My ret pally is sitting in Limbo waiting for anything to change for the better. It isn't just the issue with raiding, but the overall build for the paladin, regardless of concentration is of limited use to the solo player on a PvP server (where I play). Anything could be considered an improvement, because nothing in the ret tree is useful beyond lvl 40 PvE. Avenger's Shield is about the only thing worth striving for on all of the paladin trees, and that is in the wrong tree for ret pallies.
Ret is just a weak tree for anything beyond the first half of the game. There is nothing I can see at the moment that draws me to continue. When opposing players 2 levels below me run towards me in Arathi, weapons ablaze instead of running away, it is obvious that no one considers the paladin a viable class other than diehard paladin players. While, and I have said this before recently, while players 2 levels higher run away screaming from my little gnome warlock.
I've never been an advocate of perfect balance in a game, as I believe each class and race has it's strengths and weaknesses (I believe that my gnome should not be able to keep up with my buddy's NElf mage, for example). However, the paladin lore is one of strength and devotion, but I find it hard to be devoted to my paladin when he is lacking so in strength.
Maybe, and this is simply my opinion, but maybe the ret tree could emphasize better the Judgement chains. Like a warlock's DoTs, a Ret pally would be feared not for his steel blades, but for the wrath of god that is dropped heavily upon his foes. Seals could be dropped on a target similar to a warlock's DoTs, or chained together like some of the rogue's skills. Drop the hammer, just like with the rogue finishing moves, and unleash the fury of the gods on your enemy.
Of course that might be totally unbalanced.
I want to believe in my paladin again...please give me a reason to trudge through beyond level 42.
Urthona Jun 27th 2007 1:40PM
Fear Ward Aura?
plz?
Mehrunes Jun 27th 2007 1:42PM
@6
"only 4 healing classes"?
Wow! Considering there are 9 classes "only" is almost 1/2 of the classes! I don't hear people saying that about shaman (who are terribly mana efficient healers), shadow priests (who do a good amount of damage, especially considering they are the one "pure" healing class), or moonkin druids (and I know 2 that consistently battle each other for top spot in dmg in 10 man raids AND pvp).
Sylvina Jun 27th 2007 1:42PM
It's funny you mention lore and then talk about Night Elf Mages. xD
Urthona Jun 27th 2007 1:45PM
Think he meant BElf mage. Or was being sarcastic about moonkins...
Mad Cow Jun 27th 2007 1:47PM
@ MEHRUNES
armory link or I call shenanigans ...
flythebike Jun 27th 2007 1:49PM
Here is what will happen.
You get into Kara.
Your RL tells you so spend DKP on healing gear.
Same thing that happens to me as protection.
As long as the healing tree is so strong, non holy paladins will always be presured to respec.
Urthona Jun 27th 2007 2:14PM
What would be wrong with a talent that converts stats to spell power? Like the Druid skill to convert STR to INT.
Or allowing JoC to make the affected susceptible to ALL schools of magic? Like Misery, or Curse of Elements or Shadows.
Or upping a 2H's chance to stun, slow, or increase casttime? Like a specced random proc for any weapon.
Or having an aura passively debuff enemies? Devo reduces mobs armor, Retrib reduces healability, FR increases frost damage, FrR increases Fire damage, SR increases Nature damage, etc.