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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsGoing really, really hardcore with WoW
by Mike Schramm 
Jul 2nd 2007 at 2:58PM
Tobold linked to a new blog about MMO gaming called Hardcore Casual, and the first entry is a nice one-- it's all about the differences between a "carebear" game like WoW, and the much more hardcore games of the past. His big example is Ultima Online, where players could gank each other and actually loot the corpses. Playing a game where others could steal your armor is very different from playing a game where BoE means it's yours forever.But you don't have to go back that far to find a really hardcore game-- in Blizzard's own Diablo 2, you could play "hardcore mode," which meant that when your character died, that was it. Game over, no respawns, nothing. Either you lived and beat the game, or you died and lost the ability to play your character and everything with it.
To tell the truth, I'd love to see a server like that in WoW. Not because I'd love to play it (what are you, crazy?), but because the stories coming off of that server would be terrific-- we could all just stand in awe of the character who made it to 70 on the Hardcore server. Or would that even be possible? Especially if the server was PvP (and it would be, wouldn't it?), it seems like an impossible challenge to keep a character alive that long, especially since the other side would be gunning for anyone who got too high. Would you play on a hardcore server, where you could lose your life (and/or your gear)?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Bobby Hansen Jul 2nd 2007 4:46PM
God hell no.
I'd be as boring as real life for me.
"Mmm.. I could go into the Fargodeep Mines and get the candles.... buh I could die. Naw, I'll sit here and fish."
I'd be level 5 with 250 fishing before saying to hell with it.
tag Jul 2nd 2007 4:48PM
WoW might be tame in its approach to death and pvp, but I think that is a large part of its success. People who play MMORPGs play them to build a character and watch it grow as they progress. A "play for keeps" design takes away from the affinity people have for their characters. They care less about them, because they know they could lose it all at any given moment. No one enjoys having all the gear, which they spent a year or more obtaining, vanish before their eyes because a sadistic punk decides he's going to vent his anger about being grounded by Mom and Dad.
I, personally, cannot see hardcore pvp succeeding on an MMO level. I've played small community MUDS where it works out, because everyone gets to know everyone else, and you know who to look out for. The problem with MMOs is the chaotic randomness of having so many people playing. Chances are, any time you play, the only people who won't jack you for your gear are those who are you friends, those who can't solo you, and those who can't muster enough friends to take you down.
If wanting to hang onto the stuff that I worked for is "carebear," then call me Tenderheart.
And if these people who play on these servers are so incredibly "hardcore," maybe they should step it up and join the military IRL where the REAL risk is.
That being said, I would not mind seeing servers pop up that would allow you to level up through PVP. WoW has made me really happy with the addition of gear obtainable solely through PVP (it brought me back, after canceling my subscription), and I think that aspect could be taken further. More capturable towns like Halaa would be great. Giving a tangible reward other than access to NPCs would be great, too.
Dave Jul 2nd 2007 4:59PM
Every quest would become a major guild event.
Andy Jul 2nd 2007 5:05PM
If Blizzard would track & dispaly a Stat on the armory [# of deaths] a guild could be named the HARDCORE RAIDERS of ELWYN FOREST &/gkick anyone who gets that first death.
Might actually be fun.
Pretty sure I'm glad I don't know how many deaths I have, and real sure how mad I'ld be with some very supid deaths (lag, falls, ganked by a 40 man raid going to MC as my 5 man assembeld for BRD) if they really mattered.
The Cannabis Connoisseur Jul 2nd 2007 5:11PM
@15 I did read it you friggin Rtard and it's still dumb...just like you.
John Jul 2nd 2007 5:23PM
I'd like to see a buff given when you create your character that can ONLY be removed the first time you die. Would be cool to see how high a level you can keep that.
Freehugz Jul 2nd 2007 5:41PM
#23 ... cuz changing 1 server to a "hardcore pvp" server is gonna make EVERYONE quit wow?
Pingmeister Jul 2nd 2007 6:16PM
I would like to see them do this just for the flood of posts on the WoW Forums with "u hav no honor u kilt me afk u looser"
Malineros Jul 2nd 2007 7:14PM
I love how most of the responses center on the "one-life" hardcore server idea...
...well, so does mine.
Not that I think it would happen, but Blizzard could keep it from getting too out-of-control with one simple additional rule. You die from 1 to 69... sorry, re-roll. But if you hit 70?
"You are now saved to this instance."
All the fun and excitement for those who want it in trying to survive the trip, but once you make it, you're safe... and free to use that power however you choose (trying to stop others at 69 - "MWAHAHA!", protecting your faction's lowbies, pursuing endgame goals, etc.)
It's a virtual guarantee that both sides would have powerlevelers as soon as the server opened that would race for 70 and both sides would get at least a couple, and that should be all you need early to help insure that population grows.
Downside: once the 70s existed in any sizable population, they'd all be constantly pestered to escort others from 1 to max... blecch!
Merus Jul 2nd 2007 8:36PM
Meh, it'd just be frustrating. It's pretty hard to die via being outplayed in WoW; it's far more common to die because you got an add or because you got ganked by a player from the other faction. A high penalty for something you normally can't control isn't difficulty, it's cruelty. Most games these days can tell the difference, and so can a lot of players.
syco Jul 2nd 2007 10:28PM
I've been trying to level a charector on a PvP server and it has been the most frustrating thing I have ever done in WoW. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm in a great guild I would deleted her long ago (you can't move off of PvP servers for some reason). I virtually require my PvP to be clearly seperate from my normal questing... being killed by a player while your questing is the most BS thing ever. So obviously the described situation wherein you can be killed at any time and actually lose more than your time, is probably the worst thing I've ever heard of.
justin Jul 2nd 2007 11:09PM
I think it would work if death were on a 24 hours cool down. Thats hardcore enough in my opinion and would still keep people interested in the game... can you imagine finally getting that first boss down after two weeks of attempts
Oomfoofoo Jul 3rd 2007 1:27AM
Who wants to play RL? I wanna play a game tyvm.
Rich Jul 2nd 2007 11:44PM
If they do that, they need a FFA system too.. Every man for himself/herself. The rogue just ninja loot? BOOM!
Hehehehe
enkafiles Jul 3rd 2007 2:47AM
To a certain extent you could deal with the gankers by not allowing kills of players that are "grey" to you... lower level players could survive by grouping... that would at least deal with the lone frustrated grounded ganker ^^
Arp Jul 3rd 2007 3:03AM
Everything on here sounds amazing... It almost reminds me of the simpsons wow episode.
enkafiles Jul 3rd 2007 3:55AM
Or make it so your bank is account-based rather than character-based - that way, when you die, you don't start from scratch... and your next character can afford to pay for an escort to Eastvale or the Echo Isles...
Of course, some of these suggestions would require major changes to the way the game works... to the extent that it would be a totally different game?
darkvicar Jul 3rd 2007 6:59AM
runescape had a half decent way of handling death... being you lose all your items apart from the four pieces that are worth the most. So i guess you could keep some decent pieces on you anf ill in the blanks with disposable equipment.
Fishy Jul 6th 2007 12:22AM
but compare to diable, you can do the magic run by yourself but in wow hell no.
maybe you are skilled enough to win 1 on 1 or even against 2 of em but i am pretty sure you will got zerged sooner or later...so stop this stupid thinking
Zequel Jul 3rd 2007 9:20AM
I like the idea of a 24hr cooldown, gank someone and know they can't play for a day, but they'll be back :)
Or how about a server for a limited time competition? First faction to achieve an objective wins (conquer SW/Ogrim), server ends. Cap the levels at 30, choose a side! Make NPCs only have 1 death as well, add capital guards (but lower their level of course) and make it a real war.