All guilds are is dust in the wind
by David Bowers 
Jul 9th 2007 at 1:02PM
Recently my WoW friends and I decided to start a new guild. We're really excited about all the interesting things we plan to do together, we've thought of new ways to recruit people, and naturally we think we're starting something pretty special. But there's one thing that makes me feel prouder and happier about this than I have been before, something my new guild leader pointed out: that this guild, no matter how great it is, is just dust in the wind.In fact, we realized all guilds are basically temporary arrangements of diverse people for certain purposes; they grow, change, and dissolve even as the people in them grow and adapt to new situations. A lot of people become upset by guild changes, especially if they're trying to lead and lots of drama ensues. They know in their head of course that no guild will last forever, that WoW itself will not last forever, but they still become sad when, eventually, things fall apart.
My friends and I are discovering that there's no need for this sadness. A great guild, you could say, is like a Buddhist Mandala: an impermanent gathering of individual grains of sand, destined to live its time and then get brushed away. Most of my friends come from a guild that had served us well and gotten old with us, and leaving it behind just felt like the right thing to do. Someday our new guild will get old and we'll leave it behind to do other things -- and that's okay. The purpose of a guild is not to reign eternal, just to let us do what we want to do together now, and enjoy every minute of the present.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
PyroAmos Jul 9th 2007 1:09PM
umm.... was there a point to this post?
rick gregory Jul 9th 2007 1:14PM
Healthty attitude, but I think that you should strive to have a guild that lasts. I don't mean forever, but a guild that dies after a few months was dysfunctional. Ideally, guilds are built around a core set of attitudes and attracts people with like attitudes. That way, even if the GL changes, officers step down or quit WoW, etc the guild itself tends to live on.
Not having a clear idea of what you're about, admitting just anyone without regard to their attitude toward the game, having a control freak as GL... yeah, those will kill a guild. But the guild I'm in has been around for years and I think it's due to a relaxed, casual attitude coupled with a desire to be very good at the game. Other guilds might have other mindsets. But trying to accommodate wildly varying objectives in one place isn't going to work - so know what you're about and build on that.
Arras Jul 9th 2007 1:15PM
how very zen of you
what's the point of making a point all the time? Can't someone just say what's on their mind without it being deep and meaningful and entertaining?
Bootsanator Jul 9th 2007 1:15PM
To give me something to read at work while I'm bored, waiting for the day to be over so I can go see the Harry Potter sneak peek tonight (woot) and hopefully play some wow after that
Var Isis Jul 9th 2007 1:42PM
You all are missing the point. The point is there is no point.
Nothing in life last forever. Because to have life is to have death. Thanks for the post. :)
www.nuclearguild.com
Dracula Jones Jul 9th 2007 1:47PM
I wish this wasn't the case with WoW guilds. They're so floaty. There's no permanence to any of them.
In EQ, your guild was solid. The guild I was in from 1999 to 2003, when I quit playing, is still going strong. They moved to EQ2 and then Vanguard, but the core unit is still there.
Even the other big guilds on my server in EQ started early and lasted several years. There were mergers and name changes, but it was always the same groups of people. (I will never forgive Seekers of Norrath for running in and stealing our Cazic Thule kill as we were clearing the last mobs in Plane of Fear!)
I've seen nothing like this from WoW and it's the biggest weakness of the game for me. Is it the massive realm populations? Attunements? Where's the barrier? Why are WoW guilds dust in the wind?
Aziraphale Jul 9th 2007 1:49PM
How very deep...
Makes you think about stuff other than WoW.
Aurendar Jul 9th 2007 2:00PM
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this post! After just leaving my guild, I felt horrible. Like I did something terribly wrong.
Thanks for putting things into perspective! I'm with a GREAT guild now and I look forward to what lies ahead.
THANKS!!!!
Dur13l Jul 9th 2007 2:04PM
this is the worst....
"Most of my friends come from a guild that had served us well and gotten old with us, and leaving it behind just felt like the right thing to do. Someday our new guild will get old and we'll leave it behind to do other things -- and that's okay. "
so no dedication, no commitment, no Loyalty? wow. im not saying to give blood for your guild however, this is the additude that can't stand.
only in wow is this ok. i have played many MMo's with other groups and have been from start to finsh and im still in touch with them. we helped each other and played.... became friends.
but your additude is just use them until you get what you want then when it gets hard or it takes work ...leave. people like you and people like this additude ruin this game.
to me this isn't zen.....its bullshit and lazy.
PyroAmos Jul 9th 2007 2:12PM
ya, agree that wow is horible for guilds, great example is nihilum, which came over from lineage 2 (its no wonder they do well in wow after playing an unforgiving game like linege lo, its like going from a chess tournament to a chess tournament for the mentally challenged in terms of game difficulty). This game is really destructive to guilds... I'd be willing to bet nihil isn't the only top10 guild that came from another game, as most ppl that start in wow are really flakey and will hop guilds constantly.
FireStar Jul 9th 2007 3:07PM
well spoken. I also realized this with the game as a whole. I think it helps people to stop stressing on the little things and just have fun, as i believe is the whole point of it all.
fauxbo Jul 9th 2007 5:54PM
This is akin to saying:
"Your friends only have so much money to lend you. As soon as they run out. It's time for new friends"
Instead of starting new and going through all the growing pains that every new guild goes through, why not apply to be an officer and help work to shape the guild into what you want it to be.
My guild is going on 2.5 years, our leadership has turned over at least twice in that time. We keep it together by having, an open application to be an officer and three core tennants that everyone needs to support before they are accepted.
You should feel bad about leaving a guild. Especially if you are leaving because they aren't progressing fast enough for you (which is how I read 'we out grew them').
specialsauce Jul 9th 2007 5:52PM
Nice post. As a contrast, there *are* guilds that span several games at once (or over time). Our guild has been around for over a decade (started in 1995 with Darksun Online), and we currently have chapters in WoW, City of Villains/Heroes, Pirates of the Burning Sea, etc. I'm constantly running into people in game and in vent who've been around for almost the life of the guild. This arrangement is great for players, who can start a new game and have a ready-made group of people to answer newb questions. It's also great for the guild because some players end up sticking around for the long haul, despite the common flakiness of online gaming relationships.
That said, we still have to manage each chapter as its own independent entity. Problems of recruiting, retention, etc. are not magically solved because we've been around for awhile. But we're raiding SSC/The Eye at the moment, people are having fun, and I'll probably sign up for another game with guild presence when WoW has run its course.
FYI, the guild is Lords of the Dead (lotd.org).
David Bowers Jul 9th 2007 7:11PM
I'm not suggesting that people should go guild hopping all over the place, selfishly looking for whatever benefits them the most. Some of you are members of guilds that span many years, many games, and perhaps decades to come, and that's wonderful for you. But in the end even grand empires fall. It's important for us not to be too attached to any one gathering of people, lest in trying to hold it together, we strangle it. Instead, love it, nourish it, and keep it alive as long as you can, but always appreciate it in this present moment, because change comes to all things -- that is the way of life, the world, and even World of Warcraft.
kunukia Jul 10th 2007 3:11AM
I am a member of a guild that has progressed through several games, although I only came to it in WoW, my first MMORPG. But even this guild shall eventually pass. Such is impermanence.
I find playing WoW, fighting and dying and rezzing and doing it all over and over, and accumulating shiny stuff which has no solid reality, is a nice reminder of impermanence.
Good post, hope folks take it to heart, in game and in 'RL'.
Trackhoof Jul 10th 2007 3:31AM
There are good points on both sides of these arguments, but I'm going to have to agree with Mister Bowers on this. You can "outgrow" guilds, and you should relax your position on them to enjoy the game as much as possible, and realize your goals.
If everything were about the guild for me, I'd still be playing a high-level priest with a bunch of strangers and be absolutely miserable, instead of loving my mid-20's hunter, leveling with my friends, and dreaming of the day our group of 8 can almost take on Karazhan ourselves.
Great post, btw!!
Fiddle Jul 10th 2007 11:18AM
hmmm...
I find this attitude toward guilds to be rather more cavalier than Zen. Let's suppose the Guild outgrew YOU and you found yourself upon login one day with the "you are not in a guild" message...and a grey tabbard. Would you then, be so non chalant ?