Is spell immunity fair?
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Jul 10th 2007 at 10:30AM
Maijson of Arathor has posted a complaint on (surprise!) the official WoW General Forum. However, unlike most complaints ("Why don't paladins get an epic flying mount quest?") this one is actually interesting. Maijson argues that the mechanic of spell immunity for certain bosses is unfair and annoying for certain classes, particularly mages, balance druids and elemental shamans. After some prodding from my guild's second-in-command, I'll add warlocks to that list.
Basically, spell immunity means that certain classes have to respec or they'll do no damage whatsoever on that fight. Many of the bosses in Molten Core, along with Al'ar, are immune to fire damage. Hydross is immune on and off to frost and nature damage, while Void Reaver is immune to nature.
I'm neither a mage nor a nature damage caster, but as a mutilate rogue, nature immune bosses utterly destroy my damage potential. However, having spent far too many fights being affected by an AOE or chasing after a running boss while the spellcasters sit there and fire away, I can't find that much sympathy in my heart. One of my guildmates suggests that instead of total immunity, elemental bosses instead have super-high resistance to schools of magic, which can be overcome through the use of spell penetration gear. This would require the DPSers to change their gear, but not their spec.
Spellcasters, what do you think about spell immunity? Do you think the mechanism is annoying and unfair, or is it merely the caster counterpart to melee-unfriendly bosses?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Levi Jul 10th 2007 10:45AM
While the prevalence of school-immune bosses is a little high, I think certain bosses being immune to a school is appropriate. Hell, why don't fire spells /heal/ Ragnaros and Al'ar?
That said, sometimes it just doesn't make sense. Why would lightning not hurt a mechanical boss?
It honestly isn't a huge deal, though. After my guild killed Al'ar the first couple times, we stopped sitting our 2 fire mages and letting them come in. Their horrid frostbolt DPS was a hinderance to learning, but once the fight is farmable it doesn't hurt the raid much.
In MC, though, all the bosses being fire immune was silly. It forced mages into a spec that many probably didn't want. A few fights here and there shouldn't be a big deal, but an entire zone is ridiculous.
Angus Jul 10th 2007 10:46AM
Bosses? HA!
Try being a shaman trying to grind nature immune elementals.
You run up to one and find your main school is worthless and try to kill the mob using extremely inefficient shocks and melee.
So after 2 minutes you are almost out of mana, near dead and have a single kill. Meanwhile the frost mage ran up, got 3 of them, and AOE'd them down and has already drank and eaten his free stuff, and is half way through group 2.
Immunity needs to go and melee needs to be friendlier. Watching out melee DPS have to constantly back off while casters are weapons free is annoying. Then when those casters get hosed they are completely worthless and now melee DPS is struggling to make up. It's a balancing act, but one that they have been short changing the players on.
I play for fun, a challenge, and enjoyment. I don't play for complete frustration because I have to be in a party with exact expectations required to manage the instance.
RogueJedi86 Jul 10th 2007 10:49AM
It makes sense in Blackrock Mountain at least. When you've spent decades(or in Ragnaros' case, millenia) living in a lava environment, fire isn't going to do anything to do you. And yes, for beings made of fire, it should heal them, like Elementals in Final Fantasy. Adding fire to a firey being? Not gonna hurt.
Solume Jul 10th 2007 10:54AM
While the mechanic is fairly annoying, it's been around along time, and I certainly don't anticipate them changing it now. I would think this would be a bigger deal for frost/fire mages than for anyone else, but my mage isn't end game raiding, so it's hard to say.
But to correct, Void Reaver is neither nature or arcane immune (I expected arcane given how much arcane damage he tries to do). If he were My life as a balance druid against him would be rather annoying and involve a lot more wrath spam. My guild got him to 2% last night, then respawns came, so we'll get him this week I think.
On the other hand, The Curator in Karazhan IS arcane immune, as is some of the trash after him.
PyroAmos Jul 10th 2007 10:54AM
it costs 100g to to respec and spec back, thats like 30 minutes of farming, and the cost of raiding. I get so sick of people qqing over having to respec for something, its not like every other MMO where you choices are permenant, you can respec for very little money at any time, as many times as you want. QQ more, christ, just respec and be done with it. At least your not melee that are screwed nomater what they do.
Budo Jul 10th 2007 10:56AM
I actually think immunity is a good idea. Not because of any lore concerns (which are valid imo) but because it brings variety to the game. It's something else that you have to think about when gearing for an encounter or designing your character.
If spell immunities go, should spell resistance?
Ambril Jul 10th 2007 11:01AM
It doesn't bother me too much (I am a mage) ~ though the idea of putting both frost *and* fire immune bosses into the T5 scheme of instances does seem a little on the mean side.
Chris Jul 10th 2007 11:01AM
Welcome to this episode of World of Whine-craft. Let see if I can explain this...creatures born of fire, such as those in MC, are likely to be immune to fire damage. Mechnical creatures would naturally be immune to nature damage and most likely bleed effects. Why is this so hard to understand? The shadow mobs cannot be feared, water elementals are immune (or significantly buffed) to frost damage and rock elementals can take alot of damage (high armor). Why is this an issue? If every mob was the same this game would be boring. You adapt and overcome.
sirotrax Jul 10th 2007 11:05AM
Well, I'm not going to lie, as an affliction warlock, Void Reaver sucks pretty hard for me. He's immune to Siphon Life and Life Drain. This means that 1. I am down a DoT, (or two, if I get on CoS duty) and 2. I have no way to regen my health after life tapping so am restricted to the more mundane/expensive/sluggish methods of pots, dreamless sleep, dark pact, etc.
All that said, I do note and appreciate that there is a trend that mechanical mobs cannot be life drained in any fashion -- and logically it makes sense. So while I do dread fighting him, I don't feel like I'm getting gypped/discriminated against in any way.
Hellbena Jul 10th 2007 11:04AM
@#2
That's what hunters are for. They are the middle ground between Melee DPS and caster DPS. We do physical damage from 8 - 41 yards away. Our only attacks that have to worry about immunities are Arcane Shot (duh) and Scorpid Sting (nature damage).
As for mechanoids being immune to spells like chain lightning, I agree that it sucks that it's like that. What blizzard should have done is have another tree of spells classified as either air or lightning.
Jon Jul 10th 2007 11:06AM
Immunities aren't that big of a deal for mages and warlocks. We have 1 or 2 other schools of magic we can use. Caster shaman and druids get the shaft though since their nature spells are the only spamable ones.
ringu0 Jul 10th 2007 11:07AM
> You adapt and overcome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You adapt and overcome the fact that the only school of magic available to you is Nature... how, exactly?
Don't start on gimpy flame/frostshocks. These are utility spells.
innajunglestylee Jul 10th 2007 11:07AM
Pardon my lorelol concern, but why would a mechanical creature be immune to nature effects? I mean, it makes sense for wind elementals who spam LB at me (rock elementals who do fire damage, not so much) but a machine that is decidedly unnatural? Que?
Rob Jul 10th 2007 11:13AM
I never noticed this leveling my Priest (I guess there's not a lot of things immune to Shadow or Holy). However, I just got my Elemental Shammy to 45 and took him to searing gorge.
Depending on what I'm fighting there I have to completely change spells. The fire elementals are immune to fire (duh) ruling out flame shock and any damage totems... but the magma elementals are immune to nature, which is worse because it rules out Lightning (our only damage spell with a good range), Lightning Shield and Earth Shock.
Still, I just file this one under annoying. At least I have three schools of magic (*FROST SHOCK*) to choose from. I'm sure things are probably worse for Mages since there tallent trees literally are their three schools of magic.
Tridus Jul 10th 2007 11:14AM
@1
Funny you should mention that, I was just commenting earlier today in the post about mains that I changed from my Mage to my Priest soley because they wouldn't take a Fire Mage to MC, and I refused to go Frost.
@2
Try being a Frost Mage trying to farm Water Elementals. Doesn't work so well then. Hell, your epic tailored set doesn't even work, since its specifically got +Frost and not +Spell damage.
siorai Jul 10th 2007 11:15AM
Oh noes!!1@1 You mean people actually have to use different tactics for different fights? You mean to say that not every fight can just be done the same as every other one? Wow. This needs to be changed right now!
I say we just get rid of all spell immunities, damage types, special resistances, etc. Every creature has a set number of hit points and every attack does a certain points of damage. No adjusting for armor, resistances, dodging, nothing. You have a spell that does 250 points damage? It does 250 points damage to everything you cast it at.
Unfortunately even with such a ridiculous system in place people will still whine and cry like little babies who just dropped a collosal load in their diapers.
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Spell immunities, different resistances, etc are what make the mobs have some variety. Take that away and the game becomes very bland, boring , and generic. At that point why not just have every creature in the game be a light grey colored cube. Boy that sounds like fun on a stick.
If someone can't figure out how to overcome difficulties with their character in certain fights, they should either learn how to play their character properly, or just not play at all.
Razhlok Jul 10th 2007 11:15AM
@9
Hunter DPS is LARGELY physical. BM hunters fire so fast they don't even have time to fit arcane shot into their auto/steady rotation without clipping auto shot. Scorpid Sting doesn't do any damage, you're thinking of Serpent Sting. Which doesn't contribute that much to our overall DPS. I'm MM and have a slow enough xbow to weave in Arcane Shot; but, the vast majority of my damage is caused by Auto Shot and Steady Shot.
Rob Jul 10th 2007 11:17AM
At least it's not like Final Fantasy... where using certain spells would actually GIVE mobs health!
Actually, that might be cool! My priest would be a MAD DPSer against undead! :D
Budo Jul 10th 2007 11:20AM
@19
That's a pretty awesome mechanic actually - healing spells doing a certain +dmg to undead trash for farming would be a good way for healer classes to farm.
Monistatus Jul 10th 2007 11:23AM
To the whiners:
Get over it.
I don't hear rogues complaining that they can't use poisons of any kind on almost EVERY boss?
Sure would be nice to throw a batch of Wound and Crippling on a boss, eh?
QQ