BigRedKitty: Just Say No to Serpent Sting
Each week, Daniel Howell contributes BigRedKitty, a column with strategies, tips and tricks for and about the hunter class sprinkled with a healthy dose of completely improper, sometimes libelous, personal commentary.
One of the problems with leveling a hunter is that one gets used to grinding. Nobody can deny that leveling a hunter is pretty dag-gum easy and it is all too simple to fall into the trap, "What was good for leveling is good for instances." But it is a trap and far too many hunters never realize that they're caught in it. We call it "Grinding-Think".
The perfect example of Grinding-Think is the use of Serpent Sting. Serpent Sting is first learned at level four. It's the first sting we're given and we use it on every mob we face. It's our opening salvo for level upon level and it becomes so ingrained in our thoughts that we can smash our Serpent Sting key blindfolded and wigged-out on "Mountain Dew and Red Bull" smoothies.
But Serpent Sting stinks and BigRedKitty wants you to quit raiding with it. There is a much better Hunter Sting that we want you to learn and use in its place. You guessed it: Scorpid Sting.
Scorpid Sting? But it doesn't do any damage!
That's right, Chester, it doesn't. But then if you think applying Serpent Sting is "doing damage" you might want to ask your friendly -- or not-so-friendly as is more likely the case -- Warlock what his opinion of Serpent Sting is. Just be prepared for a snort, giggle, and guffaw in response, in addition to:
"You call that a DoT? I've got moldy greenies from Scarlet Monastery rotting in my bank that'll do more damage than that. You keep playing with your kitties and puppies while we 'Locks summon our minions, use them for our personal pleasure, sacrifice them for fun, and drop 10,000-damage Seed of Corruption crits in 5v5 arenas. Now get outta the way; you're hogging all the darkness."
Warlocks. Do they all have mild personality disorders because they play warlocks, or do they all play warlocks because they have mild personality disorders? Someone should do some research into this; it would make a good paper.
So we've told you that Serpent Sting both sucks and blows but you may not believe us. Pre-BC, during 40-man raids into Molten Core and the other Big Places, hunters were told to not even bother with applying a sting because the mobs had a limited number of debuff slots, just sixteen, and a warlock's debuff was much more important than our piddly DoT. If we kept Serpent Sting on a boss in Molten Core, then that would keep a "real" DoT from being applied. When BRK raided Molten Core, we just left it off our action bars altogether.
Nowadays, mobs can have forty debuff slots and there is plenty of room for a hunter sting, so we can apply one and not get yelled at anymore. Hooray! But if the people in your raid knew how pathetic your Serpent Sting was, they'd tell you not to bother, to just save your mana.
But we know, so we'll tell you. Don't use Serpent Sting in instances; don't waste your mana.
From the tooltip you can see that the biggest, baddest Serpent Sting we have, Rank 10, does a whopping 660 damage over 15 seconds at a cost of 275 mana. Compare that to Steady Shot which, for the cost of 110 mana will do:
Steady Shot Damage = ( Ranged_Attack_Power * 0.3 ) + 150
For BRK's RAP of 1770, our Steady Shot does 681 damage. That's twice as efficient as Serpent Sting and a much better use of our mana. If you're a Marksman with a RAP in the 2300 area, you're doing 840 damage with your Steady Shot. You've already got mana-conservation issues and you're going to waste it on Serpent Sting? Please.
But Steady Shot isn't a DoT, is it? Course it isn't. We've got room on our mob for a sting, so let's pick one that will help our raid the most. To be more specific, let's help our dearest friends, our great buddies, our sweet-smelling and oh-so-wonderful Tanks, shall we?
Scorpid Sting. It's been modified since the last time you might have looked at it. It used to reduce the strength and agility of the target mob and it had multiple ranks, but the damage-mitigation that resulted from applying this sting was negligible and thus it was very infrequently used. So the sneaky Blizzard programmers had some fun and buffed the beejezus out of it, but kinda kept it on the QT.
Take a gander at that tooltip, why don't you: Reduces the chance to hit by 5%. Now we hunters aren't standing next to that mob and taking a beating, our friendly neighbor tank is. Ask him this question next time you run a raid,
"Um, Mr. Tank? I was wondering. Would you be interested if I sacrificed 44 DPS by not applying my Serpent Sting and instead reduced the total melee-damage you take by 5%?"
What do you think his answer will be? You might get begging and pleading. You might get happy demands, both forceful and curse-laden. You might even get a peck on the cheek, (tanks are emotional; it's part of their job).
Now the tooltip does not say, "reduces total melee damage by 5%", but disregarding crits, blocks, parries, and any other defensive tactics your tank my employ, it's a fairly reasonable estimate to make. Tank Survival is Raid Survival. Fewer tank-beatings means fewer heals, which means more healer-mana, which means longer raid survival.
Think of it this way. Not only are you going to boost the DPS of loads of people in your party -- via Ferocious Inspiration, Trueshot Aura, or Expose Weakness -- but now you're going to also increase the survivability of your tank and prolong the mana pool of your healers. You're pretty nifty, aren't you.
Of course, there is the mana-cost that should be considered. Nine percent of your base mana, just how much is that? For BRK's mana pool of 6400, that would be a cost of 576 mana every 20 seconds -- don't forget to reapply Scorpid every 20 seconds. The mana-efficiency is hard to calculate as Scorpid isn't doing damage, it's preventing it. It's an apples-and-oranges comparison that doesn't bolster a pro-or-anti Scorpid-stance much. But since Scorpid isn't affected by the mob's level -- it isn't less effective against a 73 elite as opposed to a 71 elite -- one could say that the harder and faster a mob hits, the more mana-efficient Scorpid Sting is. The harder the fight, the more you're helping.
There are some limitations, addendums, and quid-pro-quos with which you should be familiar. Scorpid Sting does not stack like Serpent Sting. If you have a raid with two hunters, assign one of them to do Scorpid and let the other do Serpent, or nothing at all. Also, Scorpid Sting is ineffective against casters; it does not reduce the chance of spells to hit, only melee.
Scorpid does not break crowd-control, unlike Serpent. If a hunter drops a Serpent Sting on a mob and a mage tries to Polymorph that mob, the Serpent Sting will cause the sheep to break. Bad, naughty hunter. However, if the hunter then slaps a Scorpid Sting on that mob it will cause the Serpent Sting to be removed -- a hunter can only have a single sting applied at a time -- and then the mage can Polymorph at will.
"That's great BRK, but I don't have room on my action bar to add another frickin' spell!" you wail. That's fine, we can accommodate you with a handy two-line macro:
- /cast [nomodifier] Serpent Sting
- /cast [modifier:alt] Scorpid Sting
While you're grinding, use Serpent Sting to your heart's content. When you're in an instance and saving your tank's neck is critical, hold down your Alt key and you'll fire Scorpid Sting instead. Problem solved.
Of course, you may be the only person in your raid who sees the difference between a Scorpid Sting and a Serpent Sting debuff on the screen; they look very similar. We recommend that you casually point it out to your tank and let him know that he's getting some Hunter Love. Unlike that warlock who sacrificed his minion instead of letting Blood Pact help the tank.
Warlock Love? That's an oxymoron.
Daniel Howell continues his quest to understand warlocks and figure out why his pet thinks they taste so good as the hunter-pet duo extraordinaire known to lore as BigRedKitty. More of his theorycrafting and slanderous belittling of the lesser classes can be found at bigredkitty.blogspot.com.
Filed under: (Hunter) Big Red Kitty, Hunter, Tips






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
BillDoor Jul 11th 2007 3:10PM
Regarding the tanking issue: If you cut down the amount of damage that the mob does to the tank (me), you directly impact the amount of rage I generate, which will make it more difficult for me to establish my position at the top of the threat meter. The healer knows how to heal me, and as long as I have agro, usually only has to heal me. If you screw that up, we all die.
Coriel Jul 11th 2007 3:20PM
If you have problems generating rage, you already outgear the content. Man up, and tank without pants.
For any serious new content, you are going to have more rage than you can use.
BRK, good post, but I believe you have a mistake on the cost of the Sting. Base mana is the amount of mana you have before +Int on items, the amount of mana you would have if you were naked.
Koskun Jul 11th 2007 3:30PM
I started using Scorpid Sting during the grind from 60 to 70. I liked it a lot more than Serpent because if nothing else it kept my pet alive just a tad longer.
During Phase 2 of Prince I had a couple of tanks say it helped.
I suppose Serpent Sting has a use now, I just really haven't been able to find out what it is.
Sohanstag Jul 16th 2007 4:10PM
The articles are getting better and better. This one is a HUGE help as I had just been pondering the utter uselessness (and rather large risk) of auto-clicking serpent sting every time I target a mob for DPS in instances/raids. Keep up the good work, man! Huntards everywhere are losing 'tard a little at a time thanks to you!
Wolfstalker Jul 11th 2007 3:34PM
Scorpid Sting actually reduces damage by much more than 5%, because misses push other combat results off the table.
Elitist Jerks Forums suggest a minimum of 7%, and as high as 11-12% for dual-wielding mobs.
As for tank who commented in this thread, WTF? If you want to take more damage, take some armour off lol. Crazy fool.
PyroAmos Jul 11th 2007 3:32PM
@1 wow.. just... wow... its prty obvious you havn't tanked anything kara or above, or you'd know you can't spend all your rage, it generates way to fast on a raid or even kara boss.
on the topic, inssect swarm from druids reduces chance to hit by 2% and does a dot as well. I cry when i see a moonkin or even a resto druid that has his extra points in balance not throw it up, it mitigates so much dmg.
Savian Jul 11th 2007 3:38PM
Excellent post BRK!
Have two questions though:
1) would Serpert Sting still be legitimate to use for pulling? As pointed out, it does piddly damage so it's pretty easy for the tank to swat the mob and get it off you fast. Do the two stings generate equal threat?
2) Does anyone know if Scorpid Sting and a druid's Insect Swarm (-2% to hit) stack? If they do, the mob's chance to hit would go down by 7% (sweet!) but maybe Scorpid Sting as the more powerful reduction overwrites the Swarm.
Thanks much.
Tekkub Jul 11th 2007 3:44PM
Crap, I didn't know they snuck in that change. If I knew I would switched LONG ago...
Domo arigato Mr. Kitty
myalternateaccount Jul 11th 2007 3:47PM
Someone sounds bitter, re: locks. But then I'm especially fond of blowing up hunters, so there may be a little class-rivalry going on.
lfnotter Jul 11th 2007 3:52PM
I wrote Scorpid Sting off a long time ago, and had no idea about this change.
Thanks much for spreading the word!
iamabanana Jul 11th 2007 3:57PM
@7 - I don't believe scorpid sting does any damage whatsoever; it's certainly a good pulling shot and the tank should be able to easily pull the mob off you.
@1 - Scorpid sting can be applied after you get agro - the ~5% shouldn't make a difference after that, assuming your group knows how to control their aggro.
PeeWee Apr 24th 2008 5:41PM
Scorpid sting does generate a set amount of Threat, I cannot recall how much it is.
Keysdawg Jul 11th 2007 4:06PM
@7
Yes, Scorpid and Insect Swarm do stack. Working with the druid in the raid, you can effectively increase the mobs miss % by 7% which is huge.
@1 lol, noob
Tagor Jul 11th 2007 4:13PM
I
viktorie Jul 11th 2007 4:08PM
I wonder how this stacks with Curse of Weakness, which reduces AP.
And to answer your question, warlocks have mild personality disorders going in.
Keysdawg Jul 11th 2007 4:09PM
@11
On untauntable mobs, I use Scorpid to pull with. On tauntable mobs, it's best to use your highest aggro/threat moves. Distracting shot or aimed shot are good for this as it gives your tank a good amount of threat to start off with. Just remember to feign death.
Of course, you could always use Misdirect if you're lvl 70.
p3ngu11 Jul 11th 2007 4:10PM
RE #2: we let our tanks go bare chested (like the LT Gen in AQ20)
Lex Jul 11th 2007 4:13PM
6 is right. Say a tank has 490 defense, dodge + parry = 40%, and 25% block. If he's using imp. shield block every time (possible on slow-hitting mobs like Gruul), he's taking regular hits, minus a little block, on 60/100 swings, because his stats guarantee no crits and no crushing blows. You drop chance to hit by 5%, and he's only taking damage on 55/100 swings. 55/60 = 91.7% of normal damage, for an 8.3% reduction in overall damage. The better your tank's gear, the higher the effective damage reduction.
7--Misdirection is *best* for pulling. If you're not 70, the best way to pull is to do as much damage as possible and have the tank taunt the target off you, because that will give him all the hate you generated, making it less likely anyone else will pull aggro. If your tank doesn't want to spend a taunt early, use rank 1 arcane shot (to save mana) or scorpid sting. I think scorpid only generates as much aggro as body-pulling, so even a demo shout will get the mob off you. On a long distance pull, serpent sting will do enough damage to make it harder for your tank unless he taunts.
FireStar Jul 11th 2007 4:26PM
good post. i always questioned which one to use, and didn't realize that they buffed scorpid. Serpent sucks regardless of solo or raid. Seems only usefull against something like rogues or feral druids.
MartinC Jul 11th 2007 4:37PM
@1: LoL, noob