Breakfast Topic: Killing the lore
by Elizabeth Harper 
Jul 12th 2007 at 8:00AM
Instance after instance, Blizzard introduces us to new and exciting bosses -- usually figures of high lore, that we'd previously considered undefeatable. Yesterday at E3 we were given a first preview of Zul'Aman, in which we've learned we'll also be killing a major figure of lore: Zul'jin. Zul'jin, a leader of Troll infamous for his raids against Quel'Thalas, will be the instance's final boss. So soon enough, yet another figure of lore will be permanently removed from the lore by virtue of a world first. On a practical note, I wonder if there will come a time when in-game instances contain all of the universe's major figures of lore and we'll be completely out of things to kill. But considering storyline, I wonder -- when we're powerful enough to kill bosses such as Kael'thas, Archimonde, and Illidan, what challenges could the rest of Warcraft lore pose for us? And does being able to kill them weaken the lore associated with them?Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Instances, Raiding, Lore, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Michel Jul 12th 2007 8:09AM
there are not "gods"
they are mortals or try of gods and players beat them because they were 10, 25 or 40.
not so easy.
and why would they be unbeatable ? and why do you assume Blizzard cannot create new charismatic enemy ?
(well, the dragon of the infinite fly are pretty nice , who is behind them ?)
(and why Naga and Murloc are so active ?)
Tridus Jul 12th 2007 8:12AM
Its not really so bad in the case of Zul'jin, but Archimonde is one of the strongest beings in the Universe. Players shouldn't be able to stand against him at all.
Thats the problem here. The players get so powerful that NOTHING can actually defeat them. Gods, dragons, Demon Lords, you name it, we can kill it.
Tom Jul 12th 2007 8:18AM
I wonder what the lore of Hogger is... he's the most powerful of all the bosses!
Eric Jul 12th 2007 8:42AM
Why create something unless someone else can kill it?
Personally, I always feel that Bliz is slighting my character by forcing me to team up with other players just to take down one guy. The day I can solo Illidan with my Mage is the day we have the conversation that maybe characters have become too powerful.
Brad Jul 12th 2007 8:45AM
Actually it probably has more to do with "threat" than anything else. No one would beat most bosses if the AI used the player tactic of killing the healer first.
Or in more fun terms: "Kill the one in the Dress!"
Chad Jul 12th 2007 8:51AM
I do not know much about the lore at all, but while we're just killing the major characters of the lore right now, couldn't blizzard create new and more powerful lore figures as quickly as we are killing the current ones now?
Brian Jul 12th 2007 8:55AM
I know nothing about warcraft lore - but I still enjoy the game very much. I don't think a knowledge of the storyline is a prerequisite for enjoying the game. The bosses are to me little different than the ones I encountered back in my mario brothers days at the end of each lvl - just prettier.
Fizzle Jul 12th 2007 9:02AM
Such is the way of all MMO things. When the world was new and full of life, no one could comprehend killing Ragnaros... Then Nef... Then Kel'thuzad... and so on and so forth. *shrug* Each one fell in turn, and another rose in his place to wear the crown of "top boss". Right now it's Illidan. Next could be Arthas in Northrend... or Sargeras from his tomb in the Maelstrom (you say no? If he or his spirit isn't out, how did Maiev Shadowsong escape after being trapped in there in Warcraft III?). Perhaps the titans will return and reactivate Uldum. Maybe the Red Dragonflight is planning something from Grim Batol. Maybe even Malfurion will finally be able to get help in the Emerald Dream. Who knows.
What I do know is I'm sure someone will be here paying his/her $15/month to find out.
Incendo Jul 12th 2007 9:09AM
Well see that bugs me somewhat too. Archimonde's one thing since he's already dead. Illidan's another since he's a fairly minor player. At the same time though if you kill off all your Boba Fetts, to use their analogy, then all you have left are Vaders and Emperors. Now while they're fun characters you only have one of each. If you had 80 running around at any given time they wouldn't be nearly as awesome. It'd be just another guy in leather on a respirator and dude with skin condition.
Honestly I'm not even so concerned about how this affects WoW, the bigger issue is that are they completely forsaking the long term of the universe? What happens with Warcraft 4 when every story line left open by WC3 is dead? When every single NPC in WoW is dead? What happens for WoW2? Does the World sun go nova and we're introduced to a whole new world?
RogueJedi86 Jul 12th 2007 9:12AM
@#6/Chad
"I do not know much about the lore at all, but while we're just killing the major characters of the lore right now, couldn't blizzard create new and more powerful lore figures as quickly as we are killing the current ones now?"
Not so easy. The major lore figures have had long convoluted histories that go back thousands of years, that have existed in the Lore for years, with major impacts in the Lore. If you created "Bob the Destroyer" tomorrow, who was the real power behind everything, it'd feel cheap, and no one would really believe it. This game isn't just about the Lore, but the Lore really helps make the game more believable. The Lore has strict boundaries, on what can and can't happen. Creating new major villains and heroes doesn't really work, not if the characters meant to inspire awe and dread in us, just at being near the characters.
Lunada Jul 12th 2007 9:15AM
I agree with #5 the bosses would be unbeatable if they were immune to taunts and stuck to the healer till death do they part as players do. And besides, for the major lore figures like archimonde it goes with the the idea of warcraft to be only able to beat such a character with a large group of players. And once Arthas is defeated im sure Blizz will think of new, more powerful enemies to fight. Who knows, perhaps a future expansion will be "World of Warcraft: Hogger's Retribution" Where hogger becomes the new Arthas-like enemy and only a raid of naked gnomes will be able to defeat him =P
Wreckless Jul 12th 2007 9:20AM
@ #2 Tridus, Archimonde was killed in the end of the 3rd war not by players in the current time frame. Caverns of Time is really a fight to stop the Infinite Dragonflight from changing the past. It is nice that players get to go back and help kill Archimonde, but it was already done without their help previously.
*Spoiler*
*Spoiler*
*Spoiler*
Kael'thas isn't dead.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Prince_Kael'thas#Defeated.3F
Matt Jul 12th 2007 9:31AM
Even though we have killed many major charecters from warcraft Lore, we're nowhere close to running out.
- theres 3 more old gods
- theres some huge issue in the Emerald Dream
- theres Arthas and the Scourge
- and theres the Naga
and that should be enough for at least 2 more expansions blizzard has to start making up major charecters
Aladek Jul 12th 2007 10:31AM
@3 I agree I want Hogger Lore!
@5 I would love to see a NPC that attacked like a PC, extreemly difficult, but someday, (then again you'll have a warrior with a dress on to gain agro)
But I would love to see random world events, even if they are repeated randomly monthly. Some thoughts...
- Rise of the Murlocks, Chomper prepares wave upon wave of Murlocks to rush the harbor, getting stronger with each wave.
- Return of the Dragons, Dragons spawn randomly in one zone, Fly across the land to a random spot in another land and sit there and kill for a few min, and then fly off to another area. could be a little annoying for lower levels, but on a PvP server your already getting ganked anyway why not by a cool random mob.
- A "parade" of Dwarfs/Trolls/Undead/Humans whatever march from their home city to assault another capital, we already have roving patrols, why not?
- more of those crazy floating deamon undead castles... can't remember what they were, but that was fun
think that's all I got atm... but seriously... rise of the Murlocks!
ben1778 Jul 12th 2007 10:22AM
Well also in the lore, groups of adventurers weren't able to wipe 15 times a day for 3 weeks in repeated attempts to kill the lore figures. I would only consider the Lore figures dead if someone were able to one-shot them. In-game is a little different than straight up lore in WoW. Warcraft 1-3 were more linear and kept the storyline, but WoW requires different mechanics.
Remember the theme to MST3K. "If you're wondering how they eat and breathe, and other science facts -- just repeat to yourself it's just a show, and should really just relax."
Maybe think of the whole of WOW of an instanced version of post WC3 life.
James Jul 12th 2007 10:31AM
OP, you're assuming that Illidan is really dead. Like comic books, no one in WoW has to stay dead forever. Bring him back in an expansion or three and make him more powerful than before.
Kahja Jul 12th 2007 10:44AM
Don't forget the ancients down in Uldum. Although I'm not sure why we'd kill them...
Kahja Jul 12th 2007 10:44AM
err. Titans... I forget really why they are called.
Pivex Jul 12th 2007 10:54AM
I think Blizzard should start introducing new figures of lore now that we can kill in an expansion or two. This prevents them from have to do a "ACTUALLY Kiso'Bojojo was behind the legion the whole time!!!" sort of thing.
Or they could introduce an entire new world to explore via the portals in Outland. While this would require a great deal of work, I imagine if done properly it could integrate with the current WoW story.
Eventually we do need a Warcraft IV and a WoW II though :)
overneathe Jul 12th 2007 11:04AM
Well even though it's gonna break my heart to kill one of the few guys I love from the lore, Illidan will have to die obviously...
I don't mind anyone else, there are tons of bad guys in WoW lore. These are a few names i can come up with (while working): Arthas, Kil'jaden, the Old Gods, Neltharion (I'm pretty sure he's the one responsible for the Inifinite Dragonflight seeing as how the Chromatic one was a failure), probably Malygos. And those are all end bosses. Meaning tons of leuitenants, captains, lords, minions and mini-bosses before them. And that's not of course counting all bosses we still have no idea about. So... seems to me we still have tons of lore to destroy. :]