PTR Notes: Rogue's Blind change changed back
by Mike Schramm 
Jul 16th 2007 at 4:44PM
From the "some-of-the-people-happy-all-of-the-time file," you may have noticed a fun little change under the Rogue notes in patch 2.2: "Blind duration reduced to 8 seconds, cooldown reduced to 1 minute, Blinding Powder is no longer required to use." Blind with only a minute cooldown? With no reagent cost? Sounds good to my PvP Undead Rogue.But most people didn't like the sound of spending all that time disoriented, so this weekend, the forums opened up with the QQ rain. Even some Rogues agreed that they didn't use Blind that often, and that the reagent costs didn't bother them that much (I know I always have tons of it from pickpocketing-- it's the Flash Powder that I never have enough of). And yet when Neth announced that the change that was in the patch notes hadn't actually been implemented on the PTR (here are the new official patch notes, sans Blind changes), the whole situation flipped-- Rogues decided that they did want the Blind change, and other classes cheered that a change they weren't sure would affect them negatively had ever existed in the first place.
Should Blind be changed? I tend to agree with most people's opinions-- it works right now, so why bother with it? But all the outrage and the flip-flopping on the PTR (a place that is supposed to be full of experimentation) just brings up the point I made on the last PTR: have a little patience, people. The PTRs are a place to test ideas on a massive scale, and since this change never actually appeared on the PTRs, all the commentary on it actually came from people who'd never actually played with it in the first place.
Filed under: Rogue, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Freehugz Jul 16th 2007 5:03PM
I vote to take out the reagent cost in arena, or any other reagents for that matter.
Baluki Jul 16th 2007 5:16PM
I think the "new" version is very overpowered. I'm not sure how long it lasts for PvP (I don't PvP at all) but at 8 secs every minute, that's 13% of every minute your target would be out of commission, whereas currently it's just 5%. Rogues already have tons of stuns and stun-like abilities available to them. They don't need more. They may need other abilities, but better stuns shouldn't even be considered.
Removing the reagent cost would be fine by me, as long as they remove the one on Water Walking and Water Breathing too.
fbp Jul 16th 2007 5:21PM
Blind definitely needs a boost IMO, Maybe 2 minute CD on it, but the current CD for it is entirely too long to be useful.
1 Min CD would be great in PvE and would get used more, but in PvP it would probably prove to be too strong.
It does have limitations, No dmg can be done, trinket works, and the cooldown on it means no real need to have diminished returns. With a 1 minute cooldown I would say a diminished returns would be a great idea.
Scruffy Jul 16th 2007 5:19PM
"The PTRs are a place to test ideas on a massive scale...."
Erm... rooiiight~
PTRs seem more often to be used for anything game breaking on a patch that WILL go live. It's just that whenever a nerf or a buff is put forth, someone flouts off the excuse that it's just a change for kicks.
Preston Jul 16th 2007 5:47PM
Remove the reagent cost. Spending an hour farming reagents so you can play in the arena sucks.
Leshrac Jul 16th 2007 5:57PM
Quote "all the commentary on it actually came from people who'd never actually played with it in the first place."
You don't have to actually have played with it or against it to know that it wasn't a good idea - the last thing Rogues need is additional CC. Remove the reagent cost; I don't think anyone cares about that but I don't need to play a class to know that a Warrior with 25k hps would be bad to opposing classes in PVP.
John Jul 16th 2007 5:57PM
I have tons and tons of blinding powder....removing the reagent would be more space in bags and another thing to not have to keep an eye on running out of. OR change the cooldown - one or the other - but not neither!
Niyx Jul 16th 2007 6:02PM
Its not going to help us any in 5vs5 if blind is buffed so i really dont care. Thats where rogues needed fixed, not extra CC for 2vs2 and 3vs3.
The reagent cost is totally retarded though and needs to be removed.
Think blind is the only skill in the game that requires a profession gathered reagent.
Stupid IMO
chris poloncic Jul 16th 2007 6:04PM
@5 I'm not sure where you are farming, or how long your arena matches are, but I can farm enough fadeleaf for 60-70 blinds in about 10 minutes. Try SM armory.
Horixon Jul 16th 2007 6:11PM
I just want them to eliminate the reagent. That's just one more open spot in my bag. The duration and cooldown don't bother me.
ShadowFyre Jul 16th 2007 6:19PM
All the rogues crying about having to farm a reagent for blind can QQ me a river. Try having your spells require a reagent that doesn't stack, requires mob killing to farm and get consumed at a rate of 5-10 per battleground. Then you'd be a warlock.
Corrodias Jul 16th 2007 6:25PM
The really amazing part of this story is about how even some rogues were whining about Blind being buffed! Then more were whining when it actually wasn't. The official forums are just a bunch of constant whining, i swear.
Then again, i whine myself about perceived issues that have existed since release. Why else would i go to the official forum? Well, i do sometimes read some hunter theorycrafting. Whining and calculating are all the official forums are good for.
Kryptonls Jul 16th 2007 6:52PM
Blind does need to be fixed, but I use it all the time in PvP and so do other rogues. Rarely in solo play, though - if ever. And the reagents do cost a fair bit to just chuck at someone in PvP.....
YPEELS40 Jul 20th 2007 7:51AM
Problem is the reagent for me. Waste of bag space and time to farm. Although it is easy to come by when farming or instancing. But if you BG grind all day, or do arenas reagents become a problem. Either sell the damn reagent like flash powder or remove the whole reagent completely. Would a 8 second blind even allow me to restealth?
Deusirae Jul 16th 2007 7:03PM
This is coming from a person who's main in PvP is a Lock...Rogues are overpowered to begin with in PvP. They are hurting in PvE. I have 4 level 70's, one of them a Rogue. The Rogue cuts through clothies and mail-wearing opponents like butta. They blind/sap/stun-lock/choose another attack here/etc any plate wearer, and then proceed to fillet the clothie and make the other guy watch. Then him and his buddy just 2v1 the plate wearer. It's pretty much cookie-cutter tactics for a Rogue.
I think the no reagent cost is a great idea in PvP, as someone said before, get rid of reagents in PvP. The CD of blind is a little harsh, as it is one of the most effective PvP short-CC's around.
Actually, forget everything that I just said. Buff Rogues. I am switching PvP toons...
Den Jul 16th 2007 7:21PM
I don't think most rogues will see it, but blind not getting buffed is a good thing. We have issues in group PVP, changing blind wouldn't have helped as much as some people think. And the reason why it is good? If blind was buffed it would pretty much close the door on getting the real issues looked at.
Survivability (especially vs damage out put - in PVP warriors have it all over rogues)
Kiting
Bad PVP itemization - 0+hit on the rouge PVP set when we have a 24% chance to miss. The warriors set has 42 +hit and since any warrior who is serious about PVP uses a 2 hander they will only have a 5% chance to miss. Oh and they have double the +crit.
Den Jul 16th 2007 7:28PM
@Deusirae
I don't think you understand rogues at all. We are fine in PVE - in fact we are great.
Now I'm not going to say I don't destroy badly geared cloth wearers, because I do. But once you stack resilience and spec for PVP most cloth classes are almost unbeatable by a rogue - especially a warlock.
No, I'm not making this up, if you don't believe me then search out a PTR dueling video where all the players are rated 2100+ in arena. The rouges lost the majority of games to mages and locks. In fact I think out of 3 rouges 1 of them beat the lock 2 out of 5 times. The lock clean sweeped everyone else.
Personally I think removing the reagent is dumb - For less then 2 hours total time spent I can farm all that I need and still have enough to sell for about 500g on the AH.
Soap Jul 16th 2007 7:48PM
on my server, it cost me a gold per blind, i would much rather get it from killing soemthing.....
Freehugz Jul 16th 2007 7:51PM
I like how WoW players have such a bad sense of time when it comes to farming.
Wasyl Jul 16th 2007 8:17PM
Even though I would have appreciated the change, I understand why some would consider the reduced cooldown overpowered. However, the reason I'm mad is not because it was reverted, but because for about an hour before I heard about the change being cancelled, I thought the devs had actually listened to rogues' constructive ideas. Now we don't have a single meaningful buff in the next patch, even though we sorely need something for arena PVP. The lack of reagent was just icing on the cake, and even that was taken away.