Build Shop: Priest 23/38/0

Consider this the beginning of Season 2 of Build Shop. I've given each class a turn (for real this time), and now I'm going to kick things off with another build of my own, this one on my main. Priest is the first class I got to 60, and the first class I got to 70. Although I leveled to 55 or so as Shadow, healing is really what I love on my priest, and I've been various kinds of Holy since then.
My current build isn't really original; in fact, it's probably the most common PvE healing build for priests right now: 23/38/0. Take Discipline down to Improved Divine Spirit, and Holy down to 3/5 Empowered Healing (skipping Lightwell and Circle of Healing, in my version). The main alternative builds would probably be 21/40/0 or 20/41/0, and there may not be a clear-cut "best" build out of the three.
21/40/0 trades the two points in Imp. DS to fill out Emp. Healing. The math on this is long and hard, but as I understand it, the upshot is that Emp. Healing will do more for your own healing, but Imp. DS will do more for the group, assuming it includes at least three casters (counting yourself). Therefore, if another priest in your usual raiding group has IDS, you should take EH instead.
But if you're skipping IDS because another priest will be buffing DS, why even take the DS talent? That leads to the 20/41/0 build. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Circle of Healing is still a terrible 41-point talent, especially for PvE. As I stated in my priest column on heals, I haven't actually ever had Lightwell or CoH, so I can't say for sure, but from the numbers I've seen, as well as opinions from other priests who have had it, it's just not worth it. On the other hand, a few people over at the aforementioned Know Your Heals article liked it, so your mileage may vary. It's much more helpful, in my opinion, to have DS available in case you might need it in a 5-man or a raid that happens not to have another priest.
But let's say, as in my case, there isn't another priest that regularly raids with you that has IDS. Then it's pretty worthwhile to take it, since you're boosting the output (and spirit) of every caster in the raid, including of course yourself. But where to allocate the particular points?
Discipline is the most straightforward; let's start there. Although it is a mess of a tree without any real focus, we know what we're going for here, which is DS/IDS. On the way is one more absolute must-have talent for any raiding priest: Meditation. Letting some of your Spirit ignore the five-second rule (5SR) is indispensable; fights like Curator would be practically impossible without that degree of mana regeneration, I think.
At the top we start with a choice between Unbreakable Will and Wand Specialization. I've discussed this issue before; I choose Wand Spec outside of PvP. In group PvE, if a mob AoE fears, you want to get hit by it. Why? After the fear hits, the mob will go for the highest person on its aggro list that isn't feared. Typically, the healer is the second-highest, after the tank; therefore, if you have a high resistance to fear, it's going to happen reasonably often that the tank will get feared, you'll resist, and the mob will stomp you. No good. Besides, Wand Spec helps a bit when soloing -- and believe me, you'll need all the help you can get there.
Improved Power Word: Fortitude is of fairly marginal benefit; it adds 237 health to your top-rank Fortitude, less than one hit in almost all cases, and less than half of what my Renew ticks for. However, it's still worth taking to lessen arguments about who's going to be doing what buffs, and there's not a whole lot of competition for those talent points. Moving on, we put the full five points in Silent Resolve, because less threat is always a good thing. Even with that I still sometimes pull aggro in places like heroic Underbog, where I have to just spam top-rank heals on the Bog Lords simply to keep the tank alive.
Now we hit my favorite talents in the tree so far, Inner Focus and Meditation. Both of them are efficiency talents, and if you haven't figured it out by now, efficiency is the name of the healing game as far as I'm concerned. Like I said earlier, Meditation is super for those long fights; for me, it's the equivalent of about 45 mana per 5 all the time, on top of the out-of-5SR regen and spellpower boost I already get from spirit (via Imp. DS as well as Spiritual Guidance).
Inner Focus is somewhat harder to quantify. (It gives you a free spell with a 25% higher chance to crit, on a three minute cooldown.) If you just discount the cost of an expensive heal (usually Prayer of Healing) every three minutes, it comes out to a savings of 35 mp5, but it also helps you out in regen -- if you've been out of the 5SR for 10 seconds and you cast a spell, usually that kicks you right back in and you don't regen properly for another five seconds. However, if you Inner Focus that spell, it doesn't trip the 5SR (because it doesn't cost any mana), and your regen continues.
That gets us to Mental Agility, which gets 4/5; although we do cast a fair amount of instant spells (Renew, Shield, Prayer of Mending, buffs), one point there is less valuable than one point up above in Mental Agility or Imp. PW:F. And finally Divine Spirit and its Improvement, which I've discussed above. Spirit is already important for this build; a buff that gives you more of it is great, and making that spirit have extra effect not only for you but also for anyone you cast the buff on is quite nice.
Now Holy. Holy has always (as far as I know) been a troubled tree. It seems to be meant to be the PvE healing tree, but it's been crippled by unusually weak 11/21/31/41-point talents. At the moment, out of those four -- Holy Nova, Spirit of Redemption, Lightwell, and Circle of Healing -- only one, SoR, is considered a must-have talent by the majority of healing priests (I believe), and that mostly because of its passive benefit, +5% spirit. The situation was certainly no better when Holy Nova was the top-rank talent and SoR was usually referred to as "Improved Death," lacking the spirit boost.
However, Holy's not all bad. It's just that other trees have superstar talents in those key positions, and Holy prefers to keep its real goodies elsewhere. For instance, look at the top tier: if I could, I'd max out all three of those talents. Healing Focus is a must-have, because when you're getting hit is the last time you can afford to be losing cast time. Imp Renew takes one of our core heals and strengthens it considerably. Holy Specialization is a great dual-purpose talent, healing and offense. At first it may not seem that strong for healing, because a crit heal is more often than not an overheal, but Inspiration should also be taken into account. (Side note: I also wish the item designers would take Inspiration into account, as in my set of priest-oriented gear I have zero spell crit rating from items.)
As it is, I find a need later to remove a few points from talents I would prefer to max out, so I only have 4/5 Holy Spec in my build, though it was a tough choice where exactly to take points from.
The next tier is a stroke of genius from the talent designers, in my opinion. One talent strongly motivates early investment in the Holy tree, improves both healing and offensive capabilities, and motivates the switch from Flash Heal as staple heal to Greater Heal as staple heal which the devs clearly wanted to take place in patch 1.10. That talent is of course Divine Fury. I've heard it called the only talent in Holy a priest really needs to heal well, and there's some truth to that; a 2.5s GH seems virtually -- if not actually -- required in most endgame encounters. 5/5 here is a must.
Inspiration gets full points, despite the fact that I have a low crit rate and try not to spam heals. I believe it's still fully worthwhile, since mitigation figures get really big whenever it hits on a well-geared tank. There's nothing like healing damage and at the same time preventing more incoming damage; Prayer of Mending and the 4-piece bonus on Avatar Raiment (T5) have similar effects. However, it's been a while since I've seen any math run on this talent; anyone know the numbers?
Improved Healing is another no-brainer for an efficiency nut like me. 15% off my most commonly used spells? Yes please thank you. Spirit of Redemption, as discussed above, is here more for +5% spirit than for being able to heal a bit after I die; I've seen a few encounters saved by me in spirit form, but not many.
Whether Healing Prayers is worthwhile depends, in my opinion, on whether you do more 5-mans or more raids. If you do 5-mans, take it, if not, not. I simply find myself using Prayer of Healing all over the place in heroics and even regular group instances, but hardly at all in raids. Raids are more likely to spread people out, and of course there are other groups besides your own -- and most of the time, the other groups will be taking the majority of the damage. It also discounts Prayer of Mending, which I use all the freaking time, but the spell is already so cheap it doesn't make a huge difference. I have it in my build because I do a fair amount of heroics. This, by the way, is the aforementioned reason I had to take points from talents I wanted to max out. If I was going for pure raid healing, I'd drop Healing Prayers and restore a point each in Holy Spec and Spiritual Guidance.
Speaking of Spiritual Guidance: this is a somewhat controversial talent, but we're seeing more and more spirit on Priestly items, and the talent gets accordingly more and more powerful. For me, I get +22 damage and healing per talent point, and as I get better gear, the talent gets stronger. When this talent was released, back in 1.10, I literally grinned for hours at hour clever it was; Spirit was always meant to be the core Priest stat, like Intellect to a mage, but it took until SG gave spirit a peripheral benefit to really make the stat shine.
Spiritual Healing is another dynamite talent; you simply can't beat 2% more throughput per talent point, especially now that it applies after +healing from gear. 5/5 no question. Holy Concentration? Again a bit controversial, and again something that would be more useful if the Priest healing style was as spammy as the Paladin style (no offense, Pallies, I'm still jealous of your efficiency). However, it does seem to come pretty often when I need it, and like Inner Focus it can help you spend more time out of the 5SR. I would like if it worked on offensive spells as well, or if it had a higher proc rate, but I'm reasonably satisfied with it as is.
Now we come to a talent that perplexed the bejeezus out of me until I realized that +1000 healing is in fact a reasonable baseline number in BC. Empowered Healing just looked silly in patch 2.0.1, when a priest in MC epics was hovering around maybe +300. But now it does pretty well, and does better the better your gear is. It adds 65 per talent point to my Greater Heal, and half that to my Flash Heal, which is not too shabby at all. If I was going for 21/40/0 this is where I'd put my extra two points, probably. But I don't have that kind of room in the build now, and so it takes my last three points for 3/5.
Well, that may have been my longest Build Shop ever. Thank you for persevering, true believers. As you may have noticed, I've spent a lot of time thinking about Priest talents. And although this may be something of a cookie-cutter build, I feel it's pretty well reasoned out; what do you guys think? And keep sending in those submissions! See you next week.
Filed under: Priest, Features, Raiding, Talents, Build Shop






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Alkahn Jul 17th 2007 5:46PM
I always giggle at the MC epics. If Prophecy wasn't purple, honestly, would priests even look at it? I had 600-700 +heal in BLUES and pre-nerf, it was overpowered. Benediction was far and away our best epic there. I all but ignored Prophecy.
But true that without massive +heal, empowered heal doesn't look as appealing.
Overall a strong build to feature this time. 23/38 is what I use when I heal (I'm shadow now) and nicely amplifies the priests' healing strengths.
Corrodias Jul 17th 2007 5:49PM
Proc that additional armor on me and you'll find out just what "hot bear lovin'" really means. I have barely any bear gear out of Karazhan and getting a shaman or priest buff on my armor like that nets me some 33k total armor (around 2k shy of maximum armor mitigation against raid bosses).
OutlandishTrendz Jul 17th 2007 6:09PM
I agree that blues outdid Prophecy, but for 8/8 on Vael in BWL, it was a blessing before Holy Nova got buffed.
As for the build, that is what my priest runs.
Natt Jul 17th 2007 6:09PM
Not having reached 25-man myself I am curious about what I hear of healing being less and less reactionary and more and more spammy for priests as well. Would love if people shared how it changes in 25 man land.
If it is true then I guess switching from clearcasting to more empowered healing could be beneficial (if it allows you to downrank Gheal one more step for a constant mana reduction rather than a procing one, I guess one could numbercruch it). When having more reactive casting clearcast is nice to combo with Inner focus for loong period out of 5sec rule.
I have a 23/38 with a few differences.
Discipline first: I have unbreakable will and even as horde I do not see any fights where my tanks fail to break fear so that my resists cause wipes (Nightbane comes to mind). In which fights does people actually have these problems?
I also moved one point from threat reduction to mental agility. Guess I have leet tanks since I have yet to pull aggro when they are doing their thing. Starting the fight with 2 PoMs usually gives the tank enough head start.
In holy I actually have Holy Nova rather than Sprit of Redemption. It is fun and helpful on some of the AoE pulls in Karazan (switch to DPS gear and top the damage meter until you run out of mana!). SoR would give me an extra 20 sprit if I have around 400 sprit, does not feel like much of an improvement (+5 heal and 3mp5?).
In the end I guess it is all in the clicking :)
Ana Jul 17th 2007 6:29PM
"However, it's been a while since I've seen any math run on this talent; anyone know the numbers?"
I had this same question! I asked my tanks, and they came back with the following numbers (gear levels for Karazhan-progression).
Armor DR% +25% DR% Difference%
10000 48.6 12500 54.2 5.6
11000 51.0 13750 56.6 5.5
12000 53.2 15000 58.7 5.5
13000 55.2 16250 60.6 5.4
14000 57.0 17500 62.4 5.4
15000 58.7 18750 64.0 5.3
16000 60.2 20000 65.5 5.2
17000 61.7 21250 66.8 5.1
18000 63.0 22500 68.1 5.0
DR stands for Damage Reduction. So still 5% even at the higher levels. It only becomes less useful once your bear tank starts hitting the "armor cap" around 35k.
Ana Jul 17th 2007 6:31PM
"However, it's been a while since I've seen any math run on this talent; anyone know the numbers?"
I had the same question on Inspiration, so I asked my tanks. They came back with these values, assuming Karazhan-stage progression.
Armor DR% +25% DR% Difference%
10000 48.6 12500 54.2 5.6
11000 51.0 13750 56.6 5.5
12000 53.2 15000 58.7 5.5
13000 55.2 16250 60.6 5.4
14000 57.0 17500 62.4 5.4
15000 58.7 18750 64.0 5.3
16000 60.2 20000 65.5 5.2
17000 61.7 21250 66.8 5.1
18000 63.0 22500 68.1 5.0
DR here stands for Damage Reduction. So it's still a solid 5% even at the higher levels. Once your bear tanks start reaching the armor cap at 35k, it becomes less useful though.
Ana Jul 17th 2007 6:32PM
:( Sorry for the double post there.
Scruffy Jul 17th 2007 6:56PM
Bleh. Had an idea for a utility priest build but Holy Nova doesn't proc the armor buff so fuggetaboutit...
I guess they realized that there'd be groups with a backup priest spamming rank one Holy Nova with the increased mana and decreased instant spell cost talents. :|
Too bad 'cause then lolsmiters might actually be invited to a raid.
Scruffy Jul 17th 2007 6:58PM
@3
I was under the impression that PoM doesn't stack. I read patch notes but can't say I remember reading that.
RaydenUni Jul 17th 2007 7:08PM
As a shadow priest I find it very interesting to see what my counterparts are doing.
Can we do a shadow priest build sometime soon? I realize there isn't a lot of options in the shadow tree, but where do you spend points after you've chosen all the good shadow ones?
An article that might be a good follow up to this is a paladin healing build. I would like a look at the builds that bumped healing priests out of raids in favor of the healing tanks. Not that I'm complaining, with the addition of healing Horde paladins I have more opportunities to dps in a group.
Ambril Jul 17th 2007 7:35PM
Mages
Ambril Jul 17th 2007 7:37PM
heh, I appear to have violated a posting convention on the previous post.
What I meant to chime in with was that mages (heart) Divine Spirit. It is a really important buff for us these days. :)
Elyana Jul 17th 2007 8:49PM
I've always wondered about Imp DS and Spiritual Guidance. I know some priests stack spirit a lot more heavily than I do, but I tend toward direct mp5 gear when I can.
I would guess a well-geared priest could have some 500 spirit, buffed (not talking Black Temple gear here). With that, spiritual guidance gives +100 healing for 4 talent points. I find that to be pretty expensive, considering my pre-Kara gear gives me more than +1000 healing on its own.
The same argument for Imp DS. For 2 extra talent points, I buff everyone for +10% dmg based on spirit. DPS casters rarely stack a significant amount of spirit, and healers can't expect to get more than +50 healing from it.
Spend your talent points elsewhere, I say. Improve your mana efficiency with healing prayers or the last point of mental agility. Also, I'm a big fan of having both mental strength AND spiritual healing.
anonymoose Jul 17th 2007 9:20PM
"Unfortunately, in my opinion, Circle of Healing is still a terrible 41-point talent, especially for PvE. As I stated in my priest column on heals, I haven't actually ever had Lightwell or CoH, so I can't say for sure, but from the numbers I've seen, as well as opinions from other priests who have had it, it's just not worth it. "
I am a former CoH hater--my main is Curandera on Kilrogg. Please armory and observe that I do not have Lolwell. I urge you to take the same challenge I did, which is to spec CoH for 30 days and see what the gains vs. losses really are before you continue to malign something you have no direct experience with.
There is a ton forward facing to hate about this spell--but it is incredibly useful in pve (as well as pvp), and not just for trash clearing. As you progress through the end game content, the need to swiftly heal groups while on the move becomes more and more important.
If raid groups can be smartly configured to utilize the benefits of pallies, shammies and the like, they can be configured for maximum CoH efficiency too. I am the only person in the raid who can apply fecundity (via ribbon of sacrifice) to an entire raid group in a matter of seconds, thereby making all heals to all targets count for more. When CoH crits it delivers 1300 instantly and procs inspiration.
CoH will not save your raid from a wipe if something has gone horribly wrong--be sure to use your normal "save the day" strategies and use CoH to stabilize, especially groups who would normally be allowed to die off. CoH will not replace your other healing spells, so don't try to heal a heroic with only CoH and then complain it didn't work. CoH will not allow you to endlessly spam without a cost to mana, but all our healing spells have a cost. My favotite CoH complaint? When people decked in very nice healing gear complaing their CoH only delivered 400-500. Nubcakes, go back to the priest trainer and train the remaining ranks of the spell. If you average less than 800 per CoH you need to look at gear or train up all ranks of the spell.
Is it a lackluster 41 point talent? Totally. Is it useless? Absolutely not. Smartly applied and utilized by a well geared priest, CoH brings something to the raid that is needed.
Most of the complaints about CoH that I continue to hear are from those who have A. never tried it, B. have crap for gear, C. don't know when to use it.
Contact me in game if you'd like tips on how to use CoH in a reasonable fashion that allows you to bring something unique to the raid healing team.
Unregistered Jul 17th 2007 10:14PM
my 70 holy/disc priest is in semi-retirement until WoW fixes the discrepancies in end-game mechanics which puts healadins ahead of priests.
i am levelling a prot warrior instead. there seems to be tons of LFGs needing tanks.
Aelwen Jul 17th 2007 11:58PM
@15 People QQ too much... If you want to be needed for 5man priests are still one of the best. It's easier to heal with a priest than paladin. The problem with priests now is that paladins are more mana efficient for raids, but that doesn't change the fact that priests are very good healers. And even if you say that the raid only need ONE holy priest for buffs, you can still have more than one without losing much healing power, it's still better than many others classes that are really needed for only one or another boss. Resto shamans and resto druids has the same "problem". For Karazhan you only need ONE prot warrior and my guild can do half the instance only with one feral druid.
For PvP it's one of the best classes, especially for arena. And it's possible to use the same spec for PvP and PvE, something you can't with a tank warrior.
We sure have a pathetic 31pt talent for holy and CoH is not what is expected for a 41pt talent but nothing is perfect =P. But CoH is pretty good for PvP and would be a nice 31pt talent to replace lolwell... Blizz should make another talent for 41pt.
I wrote a post for my blog about holy/disc spec for arenas. http://ggblizz.blogspot.com/2007/07/priest-specs-for-arena.html
Torcie Jul 18th 2007 12:48AM
Circle of Healing is completely misunderstood by the majority of the priest community.
It is instant cast and crits OFTEN - for holy priests in Arenas it is almost a must have talent.
If you've never tried it, take it for 2 weeks. I made myself take the taste test for CoH and I am an unashamed convert. No way am I going to give up CoH for Improved Divine Spirit.
Lolwell is about to get a buff now as well - rumour has it, it may now be worth the one talent point.
Nogun Jul 18th 2007 2:20AM
I used Circle of Healing for a long while in PvE when there was a 2nd Holy priest available to pick up Divine Spirit. He went Shadow since then because of general raid needs and I switched back to DS but I do miss CoH. It was a fun spell to use and in some encounters gave me insane healing output, at times about 50% above the 2nd healer on the meter, a Paladin.
Comparing the combatlogs (WWS) to my healing now without CoH makes something clear tho, I was just stealing heals from the Shaman in our raid spamming chain heal, the higher my healing output got in certain encounters the more overhealing they suffered. Maybe if you often end up in raids without any resto Shaman it beats Divine Spirit, otherwhise you are just stealing a job.
Maybe it can be compared to doing majority of your healing with Renew while having a tree of life druid in the raid. You would end up decreasing the efficiency of both by dealing with the same damage.
daniel Jul 18th 2007 3:58AM
@9 - PoM does not stack on a single character and priest's PoM can only exist on one party member at a time. I think what #3 meant was to cast a PoM a few secs before the pull and then one straight after to keep your threat at 0 for the first seconds of the fight.
Tridus Jul 18th 2007 7:52AM
@17
Please don't start with the "CoH crits OFTEN" stuff. It crits at exactly the same rate every other crit-capable Priest spell crits at: your crit rate.
I'm a rarity in that I actually have Lightwell, and am looking forward to the buffed version in 2.2. I don't think its as bad as people say it is, but it does require DPSers to be trained to use it. Thats its biggest downfall, its the only healing spell in the game that requires the target to do something.
CoH? Had it, didn't care for it. If you've got groups that stay close together it can work really well, if not it doesn't work at all. Would be much better if it could cross group boundaries.