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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsAuction House manipulation: how far is too far?
by Mike Schramm 
Jul 18th 2007 at 5:07PM
Over the past few weeks, I've heard now of two different AH plots coming to fruition. A while back, Seth sent us a tip about a character named Zygar on Maelstrom who'd bought out every single item on the AH that was selling for less than 2g, and relisted it at 2g. Apparently it worked (because lots of people were willing to spend 2g on that stuff), but it didn't make lowbies happy, because they didn't have that kind of money to spend on the items they wanted.And yesterday, I heard from Cheryl, who told us about Flaggen on Kirin Tor-- he did the opposite, and started way undercutting the other jewelcrafters on the realm. Another interesting idea, and one that's also working, because he's outselling (obviously) every other jewelcrafter out there.
Is this kind of AH manipulation "griefing"? Should Blizzard step in when one character, either by sending prices high or low on the AH, changes the whole economic system on a realm? I'd think not-- these economies were designed by Blizzard to be run and controlled by players, and all the players on a realm can stop this kind of thing easily-- just stop buying from Flaggen (if you disagree with him, although some players have rightfully pointed out that what he's doing drives down prices for the gem customers) or the guy on Zygar. But on the other hand, great discrepancies in the amounts of gold at level 70 vs. the lower levels (buying out all the items below 2g probably wasn't possible before Outland) could classify this as griefing, and cause Blizzard to step in-- perhaps by limiting the amount of auction purchases by one character. What do you think? How laissez-faire should Blizzard be about AH takeovers like this?
[ Thanks Cheryl and Seth! ]
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tricks, Virtual selves, Odds and ends, Economy, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Zygar Jul 19th 2007 5:03AM
Meth, it's not done for plain profit, it's done for the hilarious angry tells that I get from people who can't afford my prices. The fact that I make several hundred gold in profit every time I do a "round" of green speculation is a bonus.
foop Jul 19th 2007 6:30AM
It's always going to be difficult to have partial regulation of the AH. How are you going to phrase the rules?
"It's okay to make some money playing the AH, but not a lot 'cause that's, like, sooo unfair."
Either have fixed prices in the AH (or just vendors), or have a laissez-faire system. Anything in between quickly becomes an unworkable mess and can still be exploited by people willing to work at it.
While I'm sympathetic towards the unwashed masses who can afford "essential" items, I can't understand vendors who think they have some sort of right to make a certain profit on their produce. If it isn't making you enough money, go do something else.
Vistol Jul 19th 2007 7:56AM
The JC guy is fine let him push down prices.
As for the other guy buying everything under 2G, if the people on the server let this happen they are stupid. How do you beat this is go farm all the low level junk you can any white item, and post it to the AH at prices just lower than his, get your whole guild to do it... and watch this guys pockets empty and prices come back down.
this guy is drving up demand so go get some suply and feed the market .... and watch this fool and his money part ways.
Anyone with economics 101 could break this guys scheme, leaving him with less gold and a bnuch of low level junk.
Hands off please Blizz, I would love for someone to try this on my server i would make a fortune.
Velanne Jul 19th 2007 8:42AM
It is a risk reward thing. On my first character ever when I was trying to get my mount I did so with herbs. Steelbloom sold for around 5g a stack at that point and it was easy to farm. One day I got on and decided steelbloom should sell for more, I bought every stack there was and marked it up to 8g a stack. And people bought it...I made a good bit of gold until one day when I got on and found that the bottom had fallen out of the steelbloom market, there must have been thirty stacks priced at 3g a piece...I bought them all and put them back up for my 8g price. Unfortunately, all the farmers were working faster than me, and every time I came back on there were stacks for 3g a piece...I couldn't be on enough in a day to keep them off. Worse people stopped buying steelbloom. Eventually I just ended up with my profits gone and a bank full of steelbloom. I managed to break even and probably made a small profit but it took months to sell off all that steelbloom.
So market manipulation is fine, but its risky. As for the JC guy...well the other jewel crafters should get to together and buy his stuff and sell it for the real price, then they'd make profit on his work and keep the standard price going.
As for the 2g person...lowbies will list things higher because they compare them to current prices (2g). Eventually buying everything will be more expensive and the venture will become unprofitable. Then undercutting will occur and prices will readjust to market demand.
seth Jul 19th 2007 9:57AM
Zygar on Maelstrom Horde-side is still on his game, or, at least, hasn't made himself broke yet. I have hatched schemes on how to break his will (mostly involving buying out low priced weapons and armor and listing them for as much as I can and still have Zygar buy it out from me to relist even higher), but in the end it's not worth the effort. Good for Zygar ... bad for my upgrade-happy alt.
homant Jul 19th 2007 10:00AM
Ahh, the Auction House. The only way to engage in same faction PvP outside the arenas.
I'm a very minor player in the Gem market, selling about 100-250 green quality gems a week. I cut about 75% myself, the other 25% from buying the undercutters and relisting. I only pull in 500g a week or so, but it's much more fun than grinding/mining/herbing, etc, imo. I used to do enchanting mats, bags, and pots, but gems are definitely the easiest.
Skarloey Jul 19th 2007 10:20AM
Trying to lvl my smithing has made me a mithril junkie (as I've been called) and this past weekend i was happily buying stacks of 20 ore or bars from 5g-8g a stack, and then BAM this week it's up to 12-15g a stack and NO ore. Bars a 66S each and it's crazy. I understand supply and demand, but that's pushing it way to far.
Should bliz step in on mithirl or anything else? no, players should just not buy it from AH and should buy it from someone willing to sell it on non-AH prices, you'd be surpised if you ask for it how many people will respond or are very helpful.
That's just my opinon.
Skar
Andy Jul 19th 2007 10:19AM
Inflation on the AH is good for Low level characters.
You can sell linen, copper & light leather that sell for huge prices.
On a new (not inflated)server its hard to have enough gold to train up when you level.
On an inflated server, a two gathering profession alt can have 50 - 75 gold at level 20 w/o any non questing "farming" hours.
Buying gear / mats on the A/H is never necessary / everything can be farmed.
Praise the 70s sending their alts a few hundred gold to get started.
Blah blah blah Jul 19th 2007 12:58PM
hell no. capitalism is capitalism. laissez-faire all the way. you don't like the price. don't buy it. still need it? go farm it. simple. done.
if you don't like the auction house, /2
Cheryl Jul 19th 2007 2:15PM
Note that Flaggen isn't just undercutting the competition all willy nilly. He purchases ore in bulk and then prospects it, hoping to get at least one rare gem a stack.
Because he does this on such a huge scale, if he sometimes gets stacks of ore with no rare gem, it is ok. He can still afford to sell his gems at a cheaper cost than the competition.
He's got thousands and thousands of gold now too.
dean.speedway Jul 19th 2007 7:28PM
If the AH prices are too high for your low level characters to be buyers they need to become sellers. If someone is inflating the market artificially buy buying everyone else out- then you have a guaranteed buyer for your stock! Just undercut them marginally.
The less traders there are on a server's AH, the greater chance that any one person will be able to have an influence.
100% Lassiez Faire doesn't work in the real world as there are too many social repercussions if the lower ends of the market can't afford to exist (or eat, or get healthcare etc). But in an artifical market where you have no necessities other than leveling your alts' First Aid skill without being bothered to farm for it- why should they regulate that? Even if they could.
jackal Jul 20th 2007 12:14AM
Almost a year ago we had a player named Blacksunn who was the richest player on the Silvermoon server and in WoW that I know of back then. (well over 150k Gold) transfered to another server. Bloodhoof I think. From what I heard he was only able to take 5k of his gold when he transfered. He went on a spending spree that sent our economy on Silvermoon server into the toliet for months. He was buying everything and transfering alts off the server.
So yes one player can make a huge difference on your servers economy.
Flaggen Jul 25th 2007 7:05PM
Wow i made online news. Woot.
Anyway, People dont fully understand what I am doing to the market becuase they dont know the markets supply and demand as well as others.
There are roughly 31 different rare gems out there that act as a consumable item due to new gear needs new gems. The cost involved for 1 rare gem is 23 adamantite ore. I buy my ore at 20g a stack. Out of the 23 adamantite ore you get 7 uncommon gems which sell for 1g each (7g) 4 adamantite powder 1g ea to vendor (4g) and 1 rare gem. 23g ada cost - 11g profit from byproducts makes my cost for a rare gem 12g. Supply and demand on Kirin Tor for rare gems is about 60-70 gems a day at an average price of 38g (I keep track of all sales and average) Making my profit 26g each gem. Of couse im going to take advantage of such high profits! If other JC sell higher then 14g I am most definately going to undercut. 2g each gem profit is just fine with me seeing as I sell 60 gems a day. But that doesnt happen, other JC sell anywhere from 19g to 70g for solid star of elune. If im making 50g profit on one gem I can afford to go under cost on a nother gem. Basic ecconomics here. Not doing anything anyone else cant do, just do it smarter and more often.
Dothead Jul 26th 2007 10:52AM
I play alliance and horde, and it always seems like the alliance AH is full of rediculously priced low level greens. Any leather item from level 15-40 is over 20 gold per on my server. On the Horde AH they are all fairly normal 20-60 silver. It's so rediculous I decided to make guys on different servers just to look at their auction house pricing.. I went to 5 different servers made level 1 horde and alliance toons. On every single server the alliance AH is priced that way. Why is it? I think TBC has ruind the game before level 58. People get so much money, they expect that a lower level player is an alt, and will pay whatever to get that 3 agi 3 stam level 20 glove.. (BTW that item is 14 gold on my server).