Richard Bartle's famous last words
by Elizabeth Harper 
Jul 18th 2007 at 7:15PM
"I'd close World of Warcraft!" MUD creator Richard Bartle on the state of virtual worlds.
While anyone who reads the rest of the article will walk away understanding the point Bartle's attempting to make -- that the millions of people playing World of Warcraft should give other games a chance, because by having all MMO players congregate in a single game, we miss out on potential new and innovative game development -- but how many people stopped reading at the headline? Today Bartle comments on his personal blog about his thinking when answering the question:
The question used the word "major." So, what major virtual worlds are there? Well, there's WoW, and ... er ... some in Korea? Whereas 5 years ago we had several major virtual worlds (UO, EQ, AC, DAOC, AO, ...), now they're all minor compared to WoW. WoW has done a fantastic job of engaging with players, giving them a great experience, and educating them in the ways of virtual worlds. If it weren't for WoW, ... Hmm. Actually, now WoW has done all that, if it were to disappear overnight then it would be a huge boost to the rest of the industry.
It's not a totally unreasonable line of thought, but with a headline like that... Bartle wonders how many people will think that he "actually want[s] to close down WoW, and start sticking pins in their Bartle voodoo dolls as a result."
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Interviews
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Pingmeister Jul 18th 2007 7:27PM
I still think his comment is at least silly and at worst arrogant.
He needs to go make those games that he envisions.
When Lord of the Rings Online started plenty of folks signed up. In fact, of my dozen or so friends from WoW 9 of them quit WoW altogether to play LOTRO.
When Conan Online shows up I am sure plenty of folks will give it a shot. In fact, Conan is supposedly going to use directional combat so you choose the angles of swings/defenses so there's a chance (if they do it right...remember Die By The Sword?) the combat will draw in lots of curious folks tired of macro-battles.
Just because WoW is humungous doesn't mean a better one can't steal the market.
I have a feeling he made the comment in the first place to get press. Mission Accomplished.
dreadlorde Jul 18th 2007 7:34PM
WoW>MUDS
Zuty Jul 18th 2007 7:48PM
Does he mean like WoW in 2D? or WoW as a Text Based RPG?
I think I would still play it.
~Zuty
G Jul 18th 2007 7:55PM
I didn't play -any- MMO game until WoW came along because I didn't trust any other company with $15 every month. Hell, I didn't even trust Blizzard for a long time, until a few friends talked me into it (now my guildies). I'm definitely not interested in spending money or time on two, three, or six at once. So I might try other MMOs at this point, but they had better bring the butter.
Ugkul Jul 18th 2007 8:03PM
Well WOW didn't get huge overnight. A lot of the folks from other virtual worlds (EQ, DAOC) moved to WOW. And why close down a successful product? Would one close down Google so folks could see what other search engines are out there? If there are "better" virtual worlds out there, folks will discover it.
rick gregory Jul 19th 2007 3:46AM
still a misguided comment. AS previous commenters in the other post noted, if WoW were to disappear, that does NOT mean most of us would go try something else.
Look, I get what he's saying - most people will only end up playing one game seriously, esp if they have to pay about $15 per month.... and if we're playing WoW, we're not likely to signup for another game... except that you can do what WoW did... give me a trial. Suck me in by how great your game is... make me WANT to jump ship from WoW or add your game to the mix.
Be vastly better or different or even both. But if you're too damn scared to build something better unless you don't have competition, go find another line of work.
Coherent Jul 18th 2007 8:08PM
So he attempts to clarify his comments and instead of correcting a misapprehension he goes and confirms our initial impression? Richard Bartle is an idiot!
"Whereas 5 years ago we had several major virtual worlds (UO, EQ, AC, DAOC, AO, ...), now they're all minor compared to WoW."
"Actually, now WoW has done all that, if it were to disappear overnight then it would be a huge boost to the rest of the industry."
The man has no @#$%ing clue! ALL OF THOSE VIRTUAL WORLDS PUT TOGETHER HAD LESS THAN 10% OF WOW'S POPULATION!!!
If you closed WoW, we would go back to a maximum MMO population of 250,000 per game instead of the 2.5 MILLION NORTH AMERICAN PLAYERS that WoW maintains.
Richard Bartle = Even more stupid than we thought.
Coherent Jul 18th 2007 8:09PM
Not to mention the millions of E.U. players or millions more WORLDWIDE WoW players..!
Polarity Jul 18th 2007 8:22PM
Holy moly! WoW Fanboi club in here. The entire point of what he said was this:
Without proper competition, the industry stagnates. WoW stagnated the industry by being so popular. People don't know what else is out there because they just play WoW.
WoW also revolutionized the industry. It proved you could put money into an MMO and get it back.
But while it made this important advance, it also set back the minds of many players, forever changing the MMO scene in, to be honest, a mostly negative way.
Ugkul Jul 18th 2007 8:41PM
@9: I don't agree. When LotRO and (shudder) Vanguard came out, there were folks in game and in guild who tried that. Vanguard of course sucked and lost people quickly. Some of those who went to LotRO stuck there. In fact, WOW has probably benefited the MMORPG community, by making a game that really appeals to the masses. It'll probably make them more willing to try out new MMORPGs. I know Warhammer is counting on that.
Ammon Lauritzen Jul 18th 2007 9:38PM
Wow, the ignorance. You people have _NO_ idea who this man is. He practically invented the MMO. He's entitled to have a strong opinion about the current state of the industry, we owe him that much.
Polarity Jul 18th 2007 10:16PM
I agree with everything you said 10, I just think that for all the good that WoW has done, it's done plenty of bad. I'm not even saying that it's the fault of the developers. A lot of the problem with WoW's popularity is human nature.
Vashnira Jul 19th 2007 1:48AM
Inventing an MMO doesnt necessarily make you an expert on the current content? Wanna try get Henry Ford to tune up a Nismo GTR? i think not. he may have an opinion just like everyone else, it doesnt make his opinion more important.
He has some good points, i just dont think they were well thought through. Yes WoW is big, it sets a standard that a lot of other MMOs cant touch. is that a bad thing? If other games cant even match WoW, why should i spend my money on an inferior product? I think WoW raised the bar in the industry rather than stagnating it, You dont tell an olympic athlete to slow down because his competition is too slow cos they didnt train, or too lazy or too fat from playing WoW. You get your buns in gear and you try to beat him.
Richard Bartle, although a visionary in his time, and i've played his MUDz, may not see the TRUE big picture as it should be. then again, I may not as well. all i know is i want my Gladiators gear!!
rick gregory Jul 19th 2007 3:47AM
Er... I don't really care who he is. That argument is an appeal to authority - "ignore any logical or evidentiary flaws because the source is a renowned name." Sorry, not doing that.
As for WoW being bad for competition... BS. Sorry, but that's a quitter's attitude. "Oh we have to compete with a large, dominant company... that's so HARD."
Take Microsoft... people said they're so dominant you just can't compete with them. So Google comes along, attacks a different problem... and is a HUGE success. Similarly, you are not going to directly compete with WoW... but you might find a completely different take on a game and do something that takes off because it serves a totally different need.
yotix Jul 19th 2007 3:51AM
Bartle is making a painfully obvious statement: If a prolific market leader disappears, other companies will profit.
If MacDonald's disappeared overnight, the rest of the fast-food franchise industry would rejoice.
If Electronic Arts disappeared overnight, Ubisoft, Vivendi, Eidos and all the other minor publishers would profit greatly.
If the latest Harry Potter were banned, people might actually buy different, better books.
So, erm, what else is new? What will Mr. Bartle reveal next - the fact that Elvis "may be dead"?
Meestuh Robotoh Jul 19th 2007 5:13AM
I'm with #15 - Disband EA and rejoice all ye little console user peoples.
As for Mr Bartle maybe give him a lifetime achievement award or other some such backpat and let him return to his writing.
He's a clever chap, but that doesn't make him immune to making statements that are easily taken out of context by the rabid fanbase of the world's most popular MMO.
I agree that competition is good.
Besides it's not like anyone but Blizzard has the ability to press the big red 'OFF' button at WoW Central, and why would they do that when the millions keep pouring in every month?
And breath.....
Zero Jul 19th 2007 5:14AM
Controlling the MMO market (i.e., shutting down WoW) = Communism. And that's a bad thing.
These same forces that he suggests would allow small MMOs to flourish (namely, the lack of a hegemonic competitor) could just as easily cause them to stagnate. If there is no superpower out there pushing the little guys to innovate just that much more, there might be a dozen very mediocre MMOs with equal populations, but all would be equally medicore.
The Microsoft/Google analogy was a very apt one. Another way to look at it is if Japan just gave up making cars when the US dominated the auto industry for decades. Instead, the little guys innovated and, when the giant became lethargic, ended up stealing the market from beneath them. Now Toyota is the world's largest automaker.
"If the latest Harry Potter were banned, people might actually buy different, better books."
-By this same token, people might not be motivated to write potential epic best-sellers. Without an example or a standard to beat, authors could be very content with writing to 10,000 readers. Instead, they've seen the success of Harry Potter and will be further motivated to write better novels that more people would like to read. It's all market economics.
wearedoomed Jul 19th 2007 8:37AM
@10. Wow, the arrogance. I could care less that this guy invented text based MMOs. I don't know if you realize this, but the gaming industry has evolved, unlike this dinosaur. He smacks of being another typical academic sitting in his ivory tower making pronouncements. When he develops something that rivals World of Warcraft he can comment on it. Until then he can rest on his laurels and stop talking. The industry has passed him by.
LaughingAtIdiots Jul 19th 2007 9:14AM
Wow the idiocy/fanboism in this thread is amazing. Particulary Zero (#17) "Controlling the MMO market (i.e., shutting down WoW) = Communism. And that's a bad thing."
HAHAHAHA.
Dean Jul 19th 2007 10:23AM
He makes an interesting point but he's missing a crucial fact. See:
"I don't play MMOs, I play WoW"
It's a sentiment shared by a lot of people I play with. Sure, a lot of people came to WoW from other MMOs like UO or EQ, and when WoW ends or they get bored, they'll move onto the next big MMO. But they're a tiny proportion of players. The majority game to WoW either through Warcraft 3, or just because they're gamers and they heard there was a really good game, that just happened to be online.
And these people won't necessarily decide they have to have another MMO if WoW were to go away. Sure, they'd want other games - because gaming is a hobby - but the game might be Starcraft 2 or STALKER or Max Payne or whatever.
I play WoW because it's a really fun game and I really like the setting. If another MMO comes along that fits that bill, I might play it. But if WoW goes away I certainly won't go desperately searching for another MMO... I'll take some time to play through the likes of Fallout 1 and 2 and Ultima VII and all the good games I've missed over the years instead.