Officers' Quarters: For all the peons out there
by Scott Andrews 
Jul 23rd 2007 at 1:00PM
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.Typically I use this column to address the quandaries and concerns of the people who are kind enough -- and crazy enough -- to run the guilds that make World of Warcraft a rich social atmosphere rather than a selfish, solipsistic mess. But this week I got a question from a regular, run-of-the-mill guild member (oh, how we officers sometimes envy you!), and it struck me as an intriguing idea for a column: What can a "lowly peon" do to stand out from the crowd and get the officers to notice you? Here's the question:
I only recently read your post about grading your raid and well, I'm having a few problems myself being graded. I recently transfered servers and well, before that I spent like 2 months without playing because I hated my server. I was waiting so I could play with my RL friends. So, it turns out my friends got me in the top raiding guild of the server, and well, despite the fact that I'm really new, I get the feeling that I'm not welcome in their raids. My gear sucks [. . .] and therefore my DPS sucks, and well, they'd rather take any other hunter except me for the raids. My trapping skills are (I think) pretty damn good, [because] even if the mob or AoE-happy mage breaks it, I can handle the situation and re-trap, and continue chain trapping. However, I don't go into heroics because well, 1) I'm not keyed, and 2) they don't trust me enough for that. In an attempt to remedy all of this, I've been asking people to do 5-mans for rep and loot, but again, no one wants to go with me because they don't know me. I get this feeling that the officers don't like me despite the fact that they really like my RL friend. What do you suggest I do to get on their good side so I can help the guild progress? Thanks in advance.
I have to tell you up front that joining a guild, especially a raiding guild, purely based on your relationship to an existing member is one of the toughest situations you can walk into. My guild is pretty lenient on these kinds of invites. As long as the person doesn't cause a stir in guild chat or run around the server pissing everyone off, we're happy to accommodate our member's real-life friends. But as officers we're not going to trust you to pull your weight in a raid until you prove to us you can.
The first thing we're going to do to determine whether you're raid-worthy is look at your Armory profile for your gear and your reputations. If we see someone in greens who isn't attuned to Heroics, we're going to assume that person is a casual player who probably doesn't understand what raiding is all about. Being keyed for Karazhan is a good start, but it hardly tells us that you deserve to be there. At this point, you're just "so-and-so's friend," whose presence we tolerate as a favor to him or her.
It's tough to gear up and get that reputation, however, when you can't get into groups to run anything. So the first thing you have to do is prove yourself to a few of the regular guild members. That means volunteering your time and/or gold to help people out. Run some lowbie alts through Scarlet Monastery. Help someone kill a fel reaver for their Shattered Halls key. Donate some Super Mana Potions to the healers heading into Gruul's Lair. When people see that you're trying to be a team player, they're much more likely to extend an invite when it's time to put together a 5-man team. Once you get in on some runs and people see that you have a clue, word will spread that you're a decent player to bring along. And that word will eventually trickle up to the officers -- trust me on this. You're on your way to being noticed.
Still, it's tough sometimes these days to get non-Heroic runs going. Fortunately you can gear up pretty well at level 70 just from BOE items and quests. There are plenty of soloable "Group" quests out there with pretty nice rewards that are comparable to what drops in Shadow Labyrinth or Arcatraz. Being a hunter makes it even easier. Just find every single-target elite quest you can and kite all those big nasties to the closest town. Bonus points for killing the lazy NPC who gave you that quest in the first place!
Once you have some decent gear, show your dedication to the cause by pimping it out. Get the best enchants, armor kits, and gems you can reasonably afford. Sure, you'll probably replace all this gear in a few weeks, but not if you never get into a raid.
In the meantime, be active (but not hyper) in guild chat and on your guild's Web site. Keep an upbeat attitude.
Most importantly, ask advice from your class leader about your spec, your shot rotation, etc. When your CL sees that you're taking your class seriously, they'll start to think that maybe you're more than just "so-and-so's friend." Your CL is really the key to your raid eligibility. In my guild, when we're putting a run together, we look at who's available, and the raid leader will often ask the class leaders for suggestions. If you've been diligent, your name will come up in this context as someone to try out during a farming run. Now you're in, and it's time to show what you can do!
Before the raid, make sure you've read up on all the bosses you'll be facing. Test your connection to the voice-chat server so you don't have to fiddle with it when the raid is ready to start. Bring more consumables than you could ever possibly need. Asking someone to "borrow a few bandages" is a quick way to make sure they don't invite you next time. Be there on time without asking for a summon. Even better, be there early to help summon others.
During your first raid, it's easy to get nervous or excited and make stupid mistakes. Make sure you're listening carefully to instructions, and ask your CL (or someone with the same role) if you get confused. Only ask the raid leader as a last resort -- he or she probably has enough on their plate at any given moment. Don't spam the raid channel or the voice-chat server with your questions and comments. Keep it in whispers or your class's chat channel, if your guild uses them. Someone will be watching you, whether using an add-on or a combat log compiler, so don't slack off, even during trash pulls. If you do happen to make a fatal error, own up to it and apologize. Explain what happened. Your officers will be impressed that you're willing to admit a mistake and able to figure out what went wrong. We've all been there, and it's better to step up and be an adult about it than try to pass it off as someone else's fault. Just don't make the same mistake twice.
The ideal situation is that no one really notices you during the run, but they see at the end that you've put up solid numbers, kept good crowd control on your assignments, and didn't unduly bother anyone. Standing out in a raid situation usually means you've done something terribly wrong.
When all is said and done, officers respect those who contribute and those willing to learn how to contribute. So best of luck to all you peons out there -- and hats off to my own! Without you guys, none of us could have a guild at all . . .
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership), Features
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sylythn Jul 23rd 2007 1:15PM
Seriously consider getting PUGs to get that rep and gear if the guild isn't available for you. I know they can sometimes be agonizing, but if the officers see you're getting better gear, and more rep on your own, they'll respect you for it.
When you do get good gear, seek out your guild enchanter and bring the mats yourself. Between getting new gear, and seeking out the different people in the guild to say "hey, I'm improving", you should end up in a much better position in no time.
Seeing as it's a top-end raiding guild, I can slightly understand why you can't get 5-mans going...but in all honesty I think that's an awful way to run a guild. You can't leave the lowbies, under-geared, or new people behind. I myself have been so tied up with clearing Kara for the first time and getting a second Kara group running, that I haven't led a single 5-man for gear/rep in months. I feel *awful* about it, because I used to do it 3-4 days a week for anyone who needed it. I'm desperately trying to use my non-kara, non-farming time to get an Alt up to outlands level so I can start doing that for the guild again.
Erica Olson Jul 23rd 2007 1:23PM
I'm understanding then that if we want to get into most of the 5-mans and raids we're to suck up, give gold and consumables to the officers in the guild, to re-spec as often as they demand and be a cookie-cutter "insert class here" and a general doormat to prove that we're worthy to be invited along. Hoping that we become one of the chosen few and not the run-of-the-mill" cannon fodder.
Just call me lackey
Darkwarder Jul 23rd 2007 1:24PM
Ok, some of the advice was good, the rest was, well not so good. Here is the deal. As far as donating gold or whatever to events you aren't a part of, that's kinda stupid. You are not here to kiss everyone's butt.
You have a responsibility to be geared for the events that you are trying to participate in. If you can't get other guildies to help, then PuG. If there are groups forming for stuff, offer your services. In fact, have your friends start up groups that include you, and then pull in a guildy or two. Do the heroics because you need the gear, it's not really that different for you (dps) anyway.
If you are invited to raids, you won't have alot of responsibilities to start. So lay your traps and protect the squishies. Don't pull aggro (which shouldn't be a problem because of your gear). Attack the target you're supposed to.
If, after your best attempts, you are still made to feel like an outsider, move on. A hardcore raiding guild might not be the right place for you yet.
Halicante Jul 23rd 2007 1:30PM
We view friends of members with healthy scepticism, especially if they have bad gear/no rep/are a pita in gchat. I can understand them not wanting to run non-heroics with you - I'm not saying it's right, but I've run those stupid things a million times getting rep up and I'd rather poke my eyes out with a hot poker than run them anymore on my mage. Your best bet is to go with any alts they are trying to gear up or to pug it. Pugs suck, but they can usually manage to make it to the end with minimal pain and suffering. Use wow-loot to make a list of the stuff you need and go after it.
For raiding just be prepared. You can make up for a lot of gear discrepancies by knowing the strat before you go into an encounter and not having to waste people's time by having them all hear a 10 min explanation in vent for a fight they've been doing for 2 months. Spec for raiding dps and push yourself with elixirs and pots to make up for the gear difference. Eventually they will notice and as long as you do fine, keep including you.
I'd assume that if it's a top guild, then likely they are at least running kara on alts by this time. We allow people to gear up alts with loot through mag by now, so I would expect your guild to be something similar and most of the alts would probably default loot to you as a main as long as you do your job in the raid. Find out when they run kara and gruultheridon and make sure you can snag a slot.
glhf!
ben1778 Jul 23rd 2007 1:32PM
Maybe his fellow raiders are fed up with him saying/typing the phrase "and well". I went to the raid, and well, I didn't have much dps.
He should be active on the guild forums and vent so people know him better and can form a closer relationship with him making them more likely to help him than exclude him due to poor raid performance.
Ask them if they would be willing to help do some 5-mans in their off-time to get some gear, but he also has to show dedication to getting the gear.
i'd also advocate farming for cash to buy decent gems and enchants on the fresh gear he'll be getting.
If you're underperforming try some extra scrolls, pots, flasks, etc to up your dmg a bit.
Increased skill, increased buffs, and increased gear should do it. If not, then it's the player, not the guild/raid/gear.
epsilon343 Jul 23rd 2007 1:41PM
Just gotta emphasize the active but not hyper in the guild chat. Just today I got on and we had two people who were essentially spamming up the gchat and it was beyond annoying. One of them was constantly asking to be let into the Arena team and then followed up the request showing that he had absolutely no idea what the Arena was about and how it all worked (this guy was lvl 70 too.)
Tag teaming with him was some idiot who was going on and on about Dwarfs and how he hated them and just tons and tons of random stuff. It eventually got to the point where the Officers were all yelling at him, along with many other members (myself and included.) He was quickly demoted down to "mute" status and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before he /gquits or the higher ups dump him.
I learned that it's a balance between chiming in randomly and being too quiet. Whenever I saw a LF within the gchat I would always ask what the raid's level was. They were always above me, but it showed that at the very least I was interested in raiding but that my character was just too low to do it. At least they now know who I am and that I'm just a casual guild mate who joins and then just kinda wanders off on their own.
Duncs Jul 23rd 2007 1:48PM
One of the things I always tend to notice more than anything is how chatty people are and their activity on the forums. If someone doesn't make an effort to get involved in the team spirit of things and become part of the community, it makes things alot harder for them and us as the officers to communicate with them about raids etc.
esumiwa Jul 23rd 2007 1:48PM
After reading the post that started this response. To the author, if I had to go thru all that just to please others, GQUIT time. Give gold, hard earned pots, give give and give more, and the guild gives what back? From what the author posted: nothing. If a guild cannot take the time to help other members of the guild, even we "casuals" the author puts down so quickly, GQUIT.
To the guy who changed servers: where are your friends that you came over for, why are the not helping "gear" up or do instances or grind some rep?
As to class masters: phht. what a moronic idea. Hey, lets find more ways to put people down and show them how stupid they are because they don't know this trick.
What ever happended to playing a game for fun? Guess guilds described above have purple/orange envy, or plain old greed over a bunch of non-exitstent items.
If you can't bring yourself down from your high horse to help a new guildie - did you bother to even ask if they needed help with anything - the guilds not worth bieng part of, gquit and find somewhere else to play.
Games are, after all, supposed to be about fun!
Coherent Jul 23rd 2007 2:13PM
Don't try to suck up. Just do your job and do it well. Run PUG's and gear up as best you can outside of the raids. Get keyed asap, and mention it in /guild and on the forums when you are.
Of course sucking up does work too, if you don't mind it and don't mind people thinking of you as a suckup. Brown nosing is a tried and true method of advancement.
Or you could try raw competence. Read up on the encounters so you know all the tricks and you never stand around looking stupid. Meet and exceed the minimum standard for DPS. Get the best enchants you can manage, and have the best spec to deliver the best performance. Help out other noobs in the guild and play every day.
Auro Jul 23rd 2007 2:15PM
As a longtime raider and an on again off again raid officer there's nothing worse than ending up with friends who show up as "package deals". Unfortunately it's not fair to the players who are dedicated, it's not fair to the new guy who doesn't have the experience, it's not fair to the guild.
New players, or undergeared players need to accept the limitations of being behind. Find a more social guild. Don't expect a raiding guild to be running 5mans, they spend 4+ hours a night wiping in raid instances, chances are very good they have no desire to spend a single hour in an instance with no potential upgrades and the potential for grief getting to know someone who may not be committed to the guild anyway.
Even myself as an experienced raider in full Kara epics and a handful of SSC drops, I recently app'd with a higher tiered guild. Being a very experienced player with a good skillset I was very nervous and made mistakes I never would with my old raids.
Raiding is like anything else in life, it takes time to get good at and it's difficult work, it's not a walk in the park, nothing is given to you and you're constantly being judged by the raid. I wish you luck, but honestly it sounds like a high school dropout who's walked into NASA. You can't expect to be a rocket scientist from day 1.
Rich Jul 23rd 2007 2:33PM
Here's the first question you need to ask yourself before you do any of the above suggestions. Do you want to raid and be serious about it or do you just want to play with your RL friends.
If you want to raid and be serious about it, then follow alot of the suggestions. PUG whatever you need to get the gear and rep, if no one in the guild wants to help. Find out who the main raiders alts are and try to run with them as they gear up. Get keyed for Kara and get the Heroic keys. That's just the first step. From there, its just making yourself known, stand out in Guild instances and Kara runs, if and when they do them.
If you want to play with your friends and aren't serious about raiding, I'd find another guild and accept that you won't be able to play with them unless they are running alts.
crsh Jul 23rd 2007 2:37PM
Contrary to popular belief, you don't necessairly need to be decked out in epics to GET epics. But if you show up in greens, with no heroic keys/attunements, and expect a raid spot: you're coming off as a total scrub looking for free epics.
In the case where some undergeared players really are interested in raiding (hell nobody was born epiced out), run 5-mans, get some gear and get rep at the same time; Blizz put in all these rep grinds in the game, but you know what, running instances that give rep makes it pretty darn easy.
Get your hero keys! Come on, this expansion has been out for over 6 months already, and there are still plenty of lv70 toons with no hero keys. It's bad, real bad. Heros have been nerfed, some are challenging but not impossible, and there are unique things for all classes in every heroic.
john Jul 23rd 2007 2:44PM
yeah or reroll something other than a hunter/rogue.
please i think my alts have helped lvl 15+ hunters and rogues get gear. but you know that my pally, druid, and priest all get more play time because i have 2 tanks, 3 healers, or 2 dpsers. i can fill multiple roles, hunters=dime a dozen.
true story.
rick gregory Jul 23rd 2007 2:57PM
agree with most of the above... esp decide whether you really WANT to raid.
If you do, get in all blues. You can do that through quests and non-heroic instances.
Check out the class forums for ideas on your spec (and maybe alternate specs that are more raid-friendly). The forums at http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/ are very good. Ask your class leader for comments on your spec too.
If you can make flasks or other tings valuable for the raid, let them know. You can ask them to provide mats, but just the willingness to make flasks for folks can be helpful.
Figure out what epics you can get via rep grinds. For example Honor Hold exalted gives you access to a great gun - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29151.
DO get good enchants for your blue gear and add good gems to sockets.
For GLs in raiding guilds - if you're not willing to help someone like this at all, don't take them. Ideally, you'd be able to suggest a casual raiding guild that would be a better fit and leave the door open to them if they end up meeting your guild's requirements
Skunky Jul 23rd 2007 3:19PM
A very informative article. However, it reminds me of how much I loathe raiding guilds. As the undertone of the article instructs, working your way into an established raiding guild involves a lot of kissing ass and a lot of pugging because nobody knows you and, most of the time, nobody really cares to get to know you. If you really want to raid, however, it is totally worth it because you can pick up intro raiding gear fairly easily since, generally, everyone else already has it.
I'm not sure how far along the emailer's guild is in raid progression, but, if they are already doing 25 mans, than I agree with another poster in here that you should probably find another guild to work your way up in. End-game progression in raids is rather disunionous, so, in starting out from scratch, it is very difficult to get caught up since everybody else has already done the stuff that you need to do.
Shiro Jul 23rd 2007 4:03PM
OK, all great responses so far.
1) Identify what you really want to be doing. If you want to be raiding, you'll need to work at it. If all you want is to play with your friends, then just do that. If all they do is raid, then you're in a pickle. :)
2) *Start* groups. Pick a destination. Read up on it. Have your strategies down. Ask in Guild chat if anyone is interested in going to . Start with simple things, Black Morass or Durnholde are good starts because they're time limited so the decent raiders will know they're in for a short grind. Have one of your buddies with you for the run so you've got two people there and make sure both of you are at the meeting stone before opening it up to the guild. Then if someone wants to join, you've got them in the group and summoned immediately. All it takes is to get *one* of the "in crowd" into your group and the next thing you know all of the spots are full.
Don't do this every night though. People will burn out on doing stuff when they "should" be getting ready for raids. Try to do this on offnights, or on raid nights where you know everyone isn't going to be able to go.
3) If you're serious about raiding. Show up for every raid. Even if you're not on the list to go. Be there, and be ready with all of the mats/pots/etc that you need. If one of the other raiders shows up and is under-prepared, offer to *loan* them the mats they need. (arrows, pots, scrolls, etc) Make sure you're doing this in Guild chat. Be very open about it. "I'm at the Kara entrance, if any hunters are going and forgot any , let me know and I'll loan you some. It shows the leaders you're serious, and that you're prepared. Sit out there with your main while you grind on an alt. Let them know that you're there and you're ready so if someone has to leave you can jump right in.
5) Ask a lot of questions *on your guild forums*. Asking a lot of questions in Raid chat, or Guild chat gets really tiresome. Asking a lot of questions in the forums is *great*. Especially when you're asking about stuff you're about to do. Even better if it's something like shot rotations that you might not be absolutely sure of. Nothing will get you noticed faster than being the one who asks questions and then follows the advice given. The only thing better is *answering* questions with the correct information, or at the very least presenting opposing viewpoints to the standard thoughts on an issue with a decent amount of intelligence.
As noted above, serious raiding guilds aren't for everyone. Not everyone likes to make the sacrifices necessary to become a part of a team, and not everyone appreciates that the "free ride" that's given to a guild/raid leader costs them a LOT of time in planning, organizing, and general crap. If you haven't been a raid leader in a major raiding guild, you have absolutely *zero* idea how much time and energy it takes. I don't do it any more, but I never again will begrudge anyone who sits in that chair.
Bruthah Jul 23rd 2007 4:22PM
If you're still in greens this far into BC, you don't really belong in a top-level raiding guild.
If you want to raid:
Go get some blues in instances and quest, and look for a guild more your level. There are always 'middle of the road' raiding guilds who will be more than happy to help an eager and attentive raider do what they want to do.
If you don't care much about raiding, and just want to hang out with your friend:
I hate to say it, but your friend dragged you into forever being a second-class citizen unless he's willing to go out on a limb for you and help you get geared up and up-to-speed.
Kahja Jul 23rd 2007 4:54PM
In my old guild what we would do is take 4 officers (myself (mage), druid, druid, paly) and this new guy and just play. We four were ALWAYS playing together and when we helped people they'd generally try to impress us. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. What stood out to us most was when the people didn't get upset when they screwed up, but laughed it off.
As a guild we would raid MC, Ony, BWL since that was all there was at the time. If you couldn't laugh off something we generally had a problem with you. We raided yet were very casual in doing so. Sure we had some basic loot rules (MT and MH first kind of thing) but if you couldn't relax and play the game we figured you were in the wrong place.
Best way to stand out to me: Don't be uptight. Have a good time playing your class.
Ben Jul 23rd 2007 6:17PM
You make it sound like all officers in guilds Elitist bitches....(Which they are)
uncaringbear Jul 23rd 2007 8:07PM
I laugh at how all the 'serious hardcore' raid guilds think that it's a waste of their valuable time to develop new talent within their guilds. Any business or sporting organization understands the benefits of recruiting raw talent and training their skills for the long run. Yes, running a guild doesn't have to be like running a business, but those guilds that are run by elitist jerks deserve all the guild drama they get. If you focus only on advancing your core experienced members, your guild becomes stale, uninteresting and will fail.