Guildless
by Amanda Rivera 
Jul 24th 2007 at 1:02PM
Our little guild has been steadily losing members and momentum for a while now. It's not new, this is the sort of thing that happens to guilds, but what is new is my reaction to it. I searched hard within myself for what problems I felt I was having with the game, and came to the conclusion that I want to raid.
Now, I've been on various raids as PUGs or in alliances before the expansion came out. I got a chance to see most of Zul'Gurub and to wrench a couple of pieces of Arcanist Regalia out of Molten Core. This taste of raiding gave me an appetite for it, an appetite I thought would be satiated when our guild got enough people keyed for Karazhan. And we have, only they keep leaving because we're not raiding (ironic, don't you think) despite the fact that we set the runs and they just don't show.
And so I talked to the Guild Leader, explained my intentions, and for the first ever time in my life /gquit. God, what a scary day that was. I applied to a raiding guild that had a friend of mine as a founding member and who had of late taken a few of our members into the fold. Only, this time I was rejected. The reason? Those they had taken in were holding the raid back because of their lack of gear, and they didn't want to make the same mistake with me. It was kind of a slap in the face, now that I look back on it, but understandable. My gear as a mage is crafted, and in talking to a friend of mine he suggested I work first on my gear and then apply to a guild that is a little more open in their policies.
What I did do is hook up with a little guild to run Kara, not as a guild member, but as a raid member. This is giving me a chance to see everything I wanted to (well so far only the Curator, but we'll get there I'm sure) of the instance, and gain gear and experience that I can put on my next app. That's not to say that I'm not crafting my gear, I am, but I also get the feeling that by the time I'm ready to apply to another raiding guild, they will be done with Kara, and I want to see that darn Chess Event! So it's a-grinding I will go, and prepare for the day when I will find another guild to call home.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Chris Jul 24th 2007 1:13PM
/gquit can be a scary move, especially if you have no back up plan set in stone. I, like you, have run in to this issue with KZ. I am in a guild that has two teams tearing KZ up and our little third team, as of this week, is no more. Mainly due to people signing up and not showing up. And of those who do show up, 3-4 are not properly geared to be effective. For example, one of our priests is actually an alt, with 5400 health. In KZ he is always the first to die.
Anyway. Good luck with the search and I hope it works out for you. I may be be joining you in the ranks of the guildless soon. I hope it's not as scary as I think it is.
Seper Jul 24th 2007 1:14PM
I just went through a whole fiasco kind of like this. The guild I just gquit from. Was never on raiding. When they were on they would get to chess and that was it. After 2 months of farming to opera most nights chess if we were lucky. I stopped raiding with them as I got bored of the content. So I gquit and moved for that and many other reasons. My new guild gets up to shade in 1 night in the same time it took my old guild to get to opera.
My old guild lost there best and most geared healer because they would talk about wanting to move on... but never did anything like talk strats or change gruops around.. or gear up out of kara...
Sometimes you have to move on for yourself. It isn't always about the guild. GL in your new home. Hopefully you get the fullfilment you need from it :)
I sure did :)
Xonate Jul 24th 2007 1:15PM
Kind of had the same problems in the guild I'm in. We finally get enough 70s with decent gear to go to Kara, and all the sudden everyone who wanted to go decides to leave the guild to go raid with another guild. It is ironic... no idea why people do that.
Coherent Jul 24th 2007 1:18PM
Raiding isn't that hard. Depends on your server, but there's lots of Kara PUGs that you can catch without being in a raid guild, as indeed you did.
Helpful tip - if you want some hot crafted equipment, the high-end engineering goggles are pretty darn good for endgame.
Dipstick Jul 24th 2007 1:20PM
Usually people don't show for raids when they don't think they can achieve anything worthwhile. Recently with our guild it was people not showing for SSC and TK runs because they knew it would mean wipes and poor organisation. However they would show for Loot Reaver and Gruul's Lair.
Then people left because "we weren't raiding enough" for the above reason - it was basically an excuse to go into another guild that had several more bosses on farm status and so had more promise of progress. I can't blame them really, SSC and TK seems to seperate the men from the boys in terms of raiding and when a guild is made up of half and half - it's doomed.
Rich Jul 24th 2007 1:25PM
There are some pros and cons to not being in a guild. It makes it hard for getting some crafted mats and getting groups together. On the plus side, there is ZERO drama. I can see how it might be scary, but once you get over the initial shock, it's not that bad.
I would suggest use your guildless time and be a merc. Join heroic PUGs, keep doing that Kara run with the other guild. Over time, you'll build up relationships with various guilds. I've been guildless since my main was 34. I've got 3 guilds asking me to join almost every day. I've run with their members for months and they know me and I know them. Whenever they need someone to fill out a group, I get contacted. If I wanted to raid, I'd be set and then I'd have to pick one of the groups. But since I have no inclination to raid, it allows me access to instances with competent people.
Urthona Jul 24th 2007 1:29PM
Well, Kara kills guilds using DoTs.
I moved to the west coast after doing the work to gear myself and my guild of 20. I had bear gear, cat gear, healer gear, and arcane resist; I was ready. But two or three others weren't, and that lack of DPS can't be carried by the remaining 7, especially when 4 are healers/tanks.
We postponed raiding, and in IRL moved to a different timezone. The raiding initiative faded, we lost our priests to bigger guilds. I gquit because I couldn't lead or organize anything with a 3 hour difference.
So now I'm guildless, bored to tears, and available to offtank Kara for any Alliance teams on Cenarion Circle.
Hank Jul 24th 2007 1:35PM
In the past two months, I have had my fill of guild drama. I moved to a new server with my guild. One day, the leader gets a bit megalomania, and lets a RL freind who just joined the guild /gkick me.
Joined another guild, only to find out that they had a mere 4 active mebers, and that included me.
Joined another guild, and they disbanded two weeks later.
Joined another guild where I had gotten an invite from the leader of a number of PUGs I had been on (they got me through BM for my Kara key!). Made our first Kara run last Tuesday, no one showed up to complete the run. A few people /gquit, and then yesterday, I log in on an alt and poof, my guild tabard has gone grey.
At this rate, the next expansion may come before I see all of Kara.
afhouston Jul 24th 2007 2:06PM
Well what you're describing is guild hopping. You use a guild to gear up and then jump to the next guild in progression.
Oddly enough, people don't have a problem with this if you use a guild to get Kara gear and then jump to a guild thats doing SSC or TK.
I personally think as long as you're honest about your intentions, people will still dislike your decision, but they will respect that you didn't suddenly disappear.
My guild personally has been stuck on Magtheridon, which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I've been wondering what it's like in SSC/TK and Hyjal/BT.
However, there are some cool people to talk to on vent and the environment in between raids is what keeps me around.
Halicante Jul 24th 2007 1:44PM
I gquit a few weeks ago. I definitely had my course set ahead of time though - planned where I would go and confirmed that I could get a ginvite from the other guild. I haven't really regretted my decision. It was a hard one to make and I think I really pissed some people off, but I'm happier now to be sure. I decided I was tired of trying to keep everyone else happy and I think I'm better off for it.
Ahoni Jul 24th 2007 1:50PM
This is always a problem with "casual raiding" guilds, of which I am in one. A lot of the people in these types of guilds seem to think progress means they get purples. It is really difficult for "casual raiding" guilds to get past some parts of raids. The problem existed in Azeroth and it exists in Outland.
A lot of the people I see in "casual raiding" guilds are not interested in progress. They are interested in free epics for themselves. They want to show up, they want the boss to die, and they want to get loot. They don't want to spend money on flasks or elixirs, they don't want to spend time farming, they don't want to spend an evening wiping while learning the fights. Those people will never get past fights like the Shade of Aran or Gruul. These types of fights require everyone in the raid to be aware of what is going on around them. If there is one person not paying attention and gets shattered in a bad place, might be a wipe. Move at the wrong time during Shade, its a wipe. The big problem, is that these few people who show up to raids for their free epics hold the entire guild back. You might have people who want to progress further, but can't because of the people who just don't put in the effort.
I spent two weeks getting all the mats to make my Frozen Shadoweave set before I set foot in Kara. I then continued to farm mats and got the Battlecast Hood and Battlecast pants. All told, getting 5 crafted epics probably cost me 1000g in purchased mats. I'd have my epic flyer by now, but I wanted to get geared up as best I could to help out the raid.
java Jul 24th 2007 1:52PM
It's commonly said that Kara is the ultimate guild killer for many reasons. Primarlily, it's harder to manage two separately saved groups than it is to make 2 runs per week as people get saved to separate instances. If you ask me an oversight by our friends at blizzard - its a bottleneck pure and simple.
Keeping on point, the fact most everyone wants to jump in Kara and raid goes without saying. Unfortunately although everyone says they want to raid, everyone's degree of committment varies by personal preference, real life obligations and so forth.
If anyone is to blame (a former GL speaking here), it's the guild leader. The lack of clear committment comes from the failure to clearly articulate what is expected to gear up and what is expected in attendance. People need to be onboard with the guild strategy and what the game plan is pure and simple. If its not disucssed on Vent in a weekly town meeting, it should be.
I applaud your ability to aggresively find your position within the PuG spectrum. I think it's a great way to get to the content provided you can effectively network your way to attendance. However, I would give you guild some more time, keep getting your gear and enjoying the content but set a time table with your guild leader. Let him know over a reasonable period of time (weeks/months not days) that you want to be doing this with your guild or you may look for a guild where you can contribute. Best of Luck...
Java...
rick gregory Jul 24th 2007 2:13PM
Actually I think the Kara attunement needs a bit more of a gear check - it's a shade too easy right now.
#10 above has it 100% right - people think they can raid Kara as new 70s or only show when it's on farm... and I simply won't take them. Doing so is bassackwards - it drives off the good people who are bored silly with Chess and rewards the farmers.
Set minimum standards for stats, tell everyone what they should bring (a Flask of Arcane Protection if Curator is up, etc), if someone signs up and no shows 2-3 times, they go to the bottom of the heap (presuming there's not a v good RL issue like sick kids, etc).
The good thing about the new 10 man instance is that groups who have Kara down but not enought folks to move to the 25 man instnaces will get new things to do.
ThorinII Jul 24th 2007 2:14PM
Been there! I thought the purpose of a guild was to help you get the gear you needed to do raids. And where does most raid gear come from? RAIDS!
It reminds me of being 16 yrs old when I needed a job to buy a car, but couldn't get a job because I didn't have a car. I think they call that a "catch 22."
Anyway, I've been guildless for some time now. I have friends in game that I group with to level when needed, but otherwise my pet is my guild.
Chris Jul 24th 2007 2:17PM
#11...I totally agree with your assessment that the GL is responsible for the direction of the guild. In our case, because it was a 10 man, there were no raid signups at first so the A-team build their 10 man group and from that day has gone it alone. Now they are complaining about people not being geared for Gruul's Lair even though they have made absolutley no effort to take in new people and help them out.
Our Guild Leader dropped the ball and has yet to pick up and over the course of the last few months has let the problem fester. We are now at the point where I expect a mass exodus from our guild any day. And to be honest, if our A-Team left the guild would be better for it. Let them join a raiding guild if they want. I say good riddance.
If you are not going to help others catch up, don't complain when you held back.
ErsatzPotato Jul 24th 2007 4:34PM
"My gear as a mage is crafted"
Mage crafted gear is raid quality.
BOP three piece arcane/fire or frost + Battlecast or Spellstrike two piece BOE (or engineer BOP hat)+ Girdle of Ruination BOE.
Lots of crafted arcane resist gear too.
PS /gquit sucks. Did it two days ago and still feel ill. My sympathies, I'm sure it will all go well in the end. Best of luck!
fauxbo Jul 24th 2007 6:07PM
So for a point of reference, I've been an officer in a raiding guild for 2.5 years.
In that time our guild has almost fallen apart twice. People in the guild getting disgruntled with loot/progress/flavor of the day. So one or two key players leave 5 others scream 'oh noes the sky is falling' and gquit too. The other 40ish people are left standing around saying 'wtf why did so and so leave?'. I'm going to put you in the 'Oh Noes the sky is falling' catagory.
The moral is don't have 1 or 2 key players if you are in a casual** raiding guild.
Have 4-5 MT, have 10-12 healers, and DPS coming out the wazzu.
**casual means there is no minimum raid attendance requirements but when you raid you come prepared (pots/repaired/know strats etc) and pay attention.
Melli Jul 26th 2007 11:58AM
@Urthona I was in the exact same situation you are, but I happened to be browsing my realm forum and discovered that there was a late night (i.e. raids starting at 11:30 PST) guild on my server. I joined and haven't looked back. We have 3 teams running Kara and we're hoping to kill Gruul for the first time this week. So browse through your realm forums and you might get lucky! Or you could apply to my guild on Whisperwind! :)
amasen Jul 24th 2007 2:42PM
I detest raiding for these reasons. The game to me is about people, but raiding is about using these people to get gear and have progression.
I used to raid, and in doing so I left behind guild after guild after I farmed the mats, brought the consumables, had the best gear possible, and raided non-stop within each guild. When it became clear I was progressing faster than the guild I left... Time and again... What I was left was, was an empty experience as I wooted an hollered about killing a boss that none of my friends on my server would ever experience or understand...
Now I play for the people... And as a friend in-game once said "raiding guilds do not equal friends and visa versa". Too bad the content in this game drives people apart, rather than together...
Catttemper Jul 24th 2007 3:01PM
to #14
The purpose of a guild is not to get you epixx, its to work yogether towards a common goal, i.e clearing an instance, dropping a boss. You should already be geared well before you ever enter an instance, ive personally removed a few peps who have complained about not getting onto raids because their gear wasnt up to the job, only for them to say "how can i get gear if i dont raid?"
This shows a massive lack of effort on your part, and shows your one of the people described above who drag guilds down.
Your catch 22 comparison holds no water, outland heroics give away cars for free :)