Officers' Quarters: Unleashing your guild's bloodlust
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.The large majority of my columns since Officers' Quarters began three months ago have been PVE-focused. And even though Warcraft itself is certainly more PVE-focused -- by which I mean, you can't level up from PVP alone -- PVP is a large part of the game for many players. So I was glad to see the following question in my Inbox this week.
I am currently the PVP officer of a mid-level raiding guild, our Kara-1 team has been successful and Kara-2 is coming together nicely, but that's not the point. As we are on a PVP server, what should I do to encourage my guildmates to hit the BGs on the holiday weekends as a group, rather than farm elementals for 3 days straight? Also as a Raiding guild - do you believe that World PVP (read: Opposing Faction City Raiding) is a viable alternative to add more class-driven PVP to the game, and give our Raid healers a spot in a fun PVP tradition?
I have to admit that I've never been a big fan of PVP in games like this. I'd never roll a character on a PVP server -- the thought that I could be happily alt-grinding on tigers in Stranglethorn and get ripped to shreds by a higher-level player on the prowl just sounds incredibly unappealing. Even so, some of my most memorable Warcraft moments have occurred during PVP.
My guild is a Horde guild, and for whatever reason we've always had a soft spot in our hearts for pillaging Theramore. As a target it couldn't be more juicy: It's easy to get to, deserted by high-level characters, and relatively unguarded. Even better, Theramore Isle is home to a high-profile target -- Jaina Proudmore. Jaina is a fun fight. She summons water elementals and randomly teleports players out of her tower. Plus she drops a decent chunk of change as a reward, at least by pre-TBC standards. During our two-year anniversary last January, about a week before TBC was released, we descended on Theramore en masse, killed Proudmore twice, hopped on the boat to Menethil Harbor (which we were sad to see was now guarded by level 70 NPCs, but pushed onward regardless), and then took another boat to Auberdine. We finally got our comeuppance on the outskirts of Darnassus. It was a great night and resulted in some hilarious screenshots and stories.
So, in my opinion, a raid on locations of the opposing faction is a great bonding experience for the guild. You don't have to worry about class balance, consumables, raid IDs, or all the rest. You just take every warm body you can muster and run in, guns (and spells) blazing. Invite another guild or two for maximum carnage. And yes, as you say, even your PVE healers can have a blast without feeling the need to respec.
But how do you convince your guild to get on board for such an event, which offers very little in the way of tangible rewards? You have to whip up your players' bloodlust.
First, tell a good story on your guild's forums about a raid you experienced (either on the giving or receiving end) and talk about how much fun it was. Then share an idea you had for a raid of your own and how you would carry it out. Come up with a clever plan that piques people's interest, like a paratrooper incursion on Thunderlord Stronghold using Skyguard's Drapes. Set a goal, such as killing Rexxar, that gives the event a greater sense of purpose. Try to schedule it in advance on a night that nothing else is going on. People are always more willing to participate in events like this when they know about it ahead of time, as opposed to pulling them away from whatever they planned to be doing that night.
Most importantly, talk it up throughout the week prior and generate some buzz. Remind people about all the jerky things the other faction has done to your side of the server and how they're in dire need of some good old-fashioned payback. Get people worked up. Let the bloodlust flow!
Unlike city raids, battlegrounds have plenty of tangible rewards, but unfortunately most of them suck compared to sweet, sweet Arena gear. Arena gear is so good these days that it seems like the Arena is all people want to do. Not to mention that 3 out of the 4 current BGs have been around since September 2005 or earlier. So it's no surprise that many players are either burnt out on this part of the game or never really had much interest to begin with. After all, what happens in BGs has no impact on the world at large. You're in a safe little instanced bubble and, regardless of the outcome, you'll all get some honor points and a mark or three and go safely back to your cities to queue up again. BGs just don't appeal to the same sense of brutality and revenge that a city raid can.
I wish I had some good advice about how to drum up interest for BGs. Maybe someone out there has found a way, but honestly, either your members are interested in BGs or they're not. There are usually a few in every larger guild, however. So the only thing I can think of is to track down those few and find a time when you can all join a BG as a group. If people know there are already a number of guildies going in, they'll be more inclined to participate than if they were just joining the queue and hoping for the best. It never hurts to ask!
And as always, scheduling a BG night a few days in advance is going to be more effective than just tossing the idea out there from time to time. Obviously you'll have better luck on the bonus-honor weekends, but still the interest has to be there in the first place. If people need to farm so they have the necessary consumables, enchantments, etc. for your Karazhan runs, and they have limited playing time, you may be asking them to make a choice between earning some honor and rep or being prepared for Nightbane. For a lot of people, that's no choice at all.
But the truth of the matter is, until Blizzard adds better overall rewards or comes up with a truly innovative new battleground (Eye of the Storm is really just more of the same), it's going to be tough to find people to fill that 15-person Arathi Basin team. Personally, I'm hoping for a BG with player-controlled zeppelins, dwarven planes, giant steam tonks, shredders, and destructible buildings -- but that's probably going to be implemented right after hero classes (i.e.: never).
Of course, a good compromise between city raids and BGs are the world PVP objectives in Outlands, which the author of the question did not mention. But a lot of people lump them in with BGs as mostly a waste of time for level 70 characters, so you're probably facing an uphill battle there too.
One of Blizzard's perennial problems is finding ways to generate dynamic PVP experiences without disrupting PVE gameplay too much. It's a thorny issue given the population imbalances that a lot of servers suffer from. In the meantime, all you PVP officers out there are in a difficult spot, and I wish you luck!
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Sylythn Jul 30th 2007 11:32AM
We're a casual raiding guild, but we've got some members that are really into PvP. They've organized Arena teams on their own, so there's an option to keep some of them busy - though admittedly not everyone.
The other weekend there was a major raid on Crossroads - so about 30 of us headed down there to fight off the invading hordes...of alliance...and after that fight was done we decided to take on Jaina (though couldn't get her down as disorganized as we were), and from there headed to Darnassus...at least that was the plan - half of us ended up in the Wetlands. :) It was fun chaos en masse and spur of the moment.
On a more regular schedule is the semi-official 29 PvP that goes on Saturday morning/afternoons. I personally am in charge of the raiding, and hate PvP (cause I suck at it), but I've been known to get in on this occassionally and I stay away from scheduling raiding stuff saturday morn/afternoon.
Monistatus Jul 30th 2007 11:32AM
" what should I do to encourage my guildmates to hit the BGs on the holiday weekends as a group, rather than farm elementals for 3 days straight?"
If your group is raiding a couple nights a week already, and doing it for many many hours... your guildies simply can't AFFORD to play in the BGs.
If you've got two KZ groups, and one of them still hasn't cleared it, this means there's still a LOT of wiping, which will suck people dry, gold-wise.
Do you really think sitting on the Plateau farming motes for HOURS on end is fun? Maybe for the masochists.
Milktub Jul 30th 2007 11:35AM
Definitely a topic that needs some thought and discussion.
From a guild perspective, city raids are probably the best possible thing you can do for the group. Sure, there's no in-game reward, but the camraderie that comes out of sucessfully destroying another factions towns is priceless. The druid who saved a rogue by popping out of cat form to toss a heal is going to be revered by that rogue, just like the hunter who saves a warrior by popping off a perfect aimed shot at a mage about to let go with a big old blast of fire.
My ideas for encouraging this sort of interaction --
* Talk it up, but keep the location secret, even while letting slip possible rumors.
* Offer in-game rewards. For example ... give away a crafted item to a random participant in the raid. Maybe a cool hat or shirt. Create a new custom title, perhaps "Hero of the Battle" or something, and award it to a participant in each city raid.
* Don't do this more than once a month. Since there are no real rewards (unless you're giving away good stuff as prizes), getting peer pressure to raid Darnassus every week would put some players off.
* Talk up your expliots on WoW forums and general chat. Make a name for your guild so that your members can feel honored. If it gets around Stormwind that it was YOUR guild that demolishes horde cities on a regular basis, soldiers will get little /salutes every now and again.
Those are my thoughts. Don't over-do it, don't make taking part in a city raid a pre-req for getting into Heroics or PvE raiding groups. Just make it a fun, teambuilding thing.
As for BGs and World PvP ... people are either going to like it or not, and I don't see as much value in them as in city raiding.
Junzim Jul 30th 2007 11:39AM
"Personally, I'm hoping for a BG with player-controlled zeppelins, dwarven planes, giant steam tonks, shredders, and destructible buildings"
------
So pretty much oldschool AV :D Back when there were goblin shredders running amok ("Keep the goblin up!!"), cavalry charges and Wyvern/Gryphon riders meant something and when you really felt that you were in the WORLD of WARCRAFT. Burning buildings and getting in epic fights with larger than life heroes fighting for your faction (Lok'Holar the Spammer!)
On my RP-PVP realm World PVP is still alive but it's still a long way from what it used to be. I blame BGs :)
That said, Arenas haven't made Honour Gear pointless. Sure the cool faction gear doesn't exist anymore (You won't see anyone running around with awesome looking items like the High Warlord's Shield Wall) but the General's epic slots like Cuffs, Neck, Belt Boots and Ring are all definitely worth earning (I'm going for doubles now to get the new healing ones to replace my damage slots for arena).
Providing you can get some opposing guilds to answer your call to battle (and even if you can't tbh) you'll still have plenty of fun doing some W-PvP as a guild.
There are only a few things to remember:
1) Organization is a massive boon. If you fight as a team you're raid can stay together and remain focused and efficient.
2) Don't let PvE raid leaders with too big egos dictate PvP strategy. They may be fantastic Class leaders or Raid Leaders but that doesn't mean they can PvP for toffee, every guild has a few well known PvP personalities (there's always 'that guy' who spends all his free time in BGs), give them command if they know what they're doing.
I've fought in one guild that was very heavily into World PvP and the command structure was always fantastic in World PvP. We used to flank to hit vulnerable ranged casters or AoE bomb on call. A battle against another W-PvP oriented guild can be immensely rewarding and is nowadays the only thing really Warcrafty about WoW.
The strategies and tactics were actually very entertaining to see pulled off instead of zerging with a group of 14 strangers :)
Sylythn Jul 30th 2007 11:46AM
@1 - Moni, we're currently running 2 Kara groups - one still learning and the other just past clearing. And we still have time to do the 29 PvP every Saturday...it's a good and very necessary break for some people.
We did run into a major problem when we went Mon/Tue/Wed in Kara (scheduling problems stuck Wed on there)...never again will we run Kara 3 nights in a row - we had major burnout and ran out of consumables.
But normally our Tue/Thu/Mon (4-5 hrs each night) schedule works really well to give time between raid nights for farming AND goofing off.
Just showing that it can be done.
Sylythn Jul 30th 2007 11:48AM
Oh that was the other thing I was going to mention - we're sister guild to a huge Alliance guild, so we've very often organized PvP events on our forums between the two of us. It's fun to beat up your friends. :)
BiggusGeekus Jul 30th 2007 12:39PM
I see people try to balance raiding Kara and Arena PvP and I'm becoming increasingly convinced it can't be done.
Obviously, there are plenty of people who do both. But these guys maintain two (or more!) sets of gear, respec multiple times per week, are always buying gems, running out of food/potions/elixirs ... and then they wonder why they're always low on money.
It's as if a large segment of the end-game WoW population sat down and deliberately attempted to do the most expensive thing they could think of in the game. The only thing that's missing is skilling up Engineering once a week to wear the goggles and then dropping it for enchanting to get the ring enchants (then back to engineering and so on and so on).
WoW is casual friendly and solo friendly. For most in-game activity there's plenty of ways to get gold to support it ... except going back and forth several times a week between arena PvP and raiding PvE which is what so many people seem intent to do!
Kim Jul 31st 2007 3:42AM
I was reading about RP battles on Silver Hand. Basically, a guild on each side of characters that level to 10 and stop, and who use a pre-determined armour set and weapon. It's a PVE server so they can have a char on each side to make sure there is an even number of people on each side.
They limit it to humans, dwarves, orcs and troll and to hunters and warriors to, again, keep things balanced.
Then they meet up in pitched world pvp battles for resources and objectives.
Basically, the point is pvp fun without twinks, so that strategy and teamwork is what determines who wins, not gear and enchants.
I can't remember where I read this now, so I can't post a link, but I think it's a great idea.