The Light and How to Swing It: Raiding ret without the noob
For a very long time, I played a Horde rogue, and only a Horde rogue. I knew little of the ways of paladins beyond what I saw on the forums. So before the Burning Crusade, whenever I thought about ret paladins, I thought of the popular image of the "retnoob": a big, wanna-be arms warrior swinging a two-hander, talking about his leet crits, and steadfastly refusing to ever heal anyone.
But after leveling a paladin of my own and reading the paladin boards, I realized that retribution and its defenders aren't what I thought they were. Many ret pallies feel betrayed and cheated by Blizzard. They rolled a holy warrior, and now they feel that their only option is to stand at the back and cast two spells. And many of the ret pallies who post on the forums don't want a huge increase in DPS -- instead, they'd prefer a way to reduce their threat and some form of increased raid utility a la shadow priests.
Since Blizzard has said that they intend to buff the retribution tree, there are probably more than a few PVE paladins who are waiting for this buff with bated breath. But how can we help these paladins become good retribution pallies, instead of falling into the dreaded trap of the "retnoob"? I talked to raid leaders, ret pallies, and read the forums for sage advice on how to successfully raid as retribution. Read on if you're interested.
- Gear up. Ret pallies, like other physical DPS classes, are very gear-dependent. And as a melee DPS class that also uses holy damage, they can use just about every stat available out there. But some stats are much better than others. Avitus of Earthen Ring-EU has put together a nice guide for ret paladin stats. In general, melee stats like strength, melee crit, AP and melee hit are better than caster stats, since melee stats affect your white hits, while caster stats only affect your special moves.
However, you probably shouldn't deck yourself out in pure warrior gear. An out-of-mana ret pally does no one any good, so most ret paladins go for a mix of stats. A guide for what stats are good for ret can be found in the ret pally raid tier sets and arena gear. When it comes to weaponry, go for big, slow, and hard-hitting weapons, unless you're a blood elf and want to use Seal of Blood (see below.) The blacksmithing BOPs are great for this.
Two of the best-geared ret pallies out there provide different perspectives on what stats to go for. The blood elf retadin Grant is wearing mostly warrior gear from Hyjal and Black Temple, with a very small amount of spell damage and massive AP. This may be because Grant uses Seal and Judgement of Blood, which benefits a lot from weapon damage and very little from spell damage. Ed of Core uses full t6, so he's got a nice mix of stats and quite a bit of spell damage.
Avitus suggests that pallies first aim for 8 percent plus melee hit and 23 percent plus melee crit. Once you've got that, start piling on the strength and AP. Along the way, if you're going for the arena/tier ret gear, you'll pick up enough spell damage (160-260) and intellect to cover your behind. If you're just questing your way up to 70, mix and match warrior gear with a little bit of spell damage gear. - For damage, seal and judge Blood, Command or (in rare cases) Righteousness. Exavier has done some very long and complicated math, and discovered that Seal of Command does about 80 percent of the DPS of Seal of Blood with a 3.6 speed weapon and average stats. Basically, Seal of Blood scales insanely well with weapon damage, is more reliable than Seal of Command, and can crit when judged and refresh Vengeance, unlike Seal of Righteousness. Blood may perform better with a fast weapon and "warrior gear", as Seal of Command does best with very slow weapons. However, other paladins have reported that they've found Command to outperform Blood with their gear, although Command (like most other proc-based abilities) makes your damage and threat kind of spiky and bursty.
As for Righteousness, unless you have a ton of spell damage gear, you're probably going to be better off with one of the other two. Righteousness's crit chance is based on spell crit, not melee crit, and doesn't scale as well with weapon damage. - Keep up your judgements. And no, not just the ones that do damage. At this point, a huge amount of your raid utility comes from your ability to judge Crusader, Light or Wisdom on a target and keep it up through Crusader Strike. Judgement of the Crusader can increase your own DPS by a lot, and it's great to use if the raid's other paladins have judged Wisdom or Light already. However, a lot of holy paladins won't judge bosses at all, and you may not have more than one paladin with you. In that case, you have a tough decision to make -- improve your DPS and the raid's crit chance, or help the raid's health/mana?
What you do depends on the fight or the group composition. If it's a long fight, the other pallies aren't judging, or you have a lot of magic DPS, Wisdom can be an excellent choice. If you have a lot of melee that are taking AOE damage, Light can work well. If the fight isn't long enough for the magic DPS to worry about going OOM, or another paladin is able to judge -- and remember to ask them to do it, reminding them that you can keep it up while they heal -- go for Crusader.
The second part of Exavier's ret raiding guide discusses what judgements are best for which early raiding bosses in which circumstances, so that can be incredibly helpful. - Control your aggro. Contrary to popular opinion, a well-geared ret pally can do a lot of damage. However, popular opinion is right about one thing -- it's pretty dang hard to keep one from pulling aggro if they're going all-out.
This problem is tough to solve with current ret pally mechanics. A lot of times, if you try to control your threat, you end up gimping your DPS enough that your raid leader will consider you worthless. Because of this, it's very important to try to have both Blessing of Salvation and Blessing of Might up on you. Since the other pallies are likely to forsake either of those, you'll have to click off the Greater Blessings and ask another pally for either Might or Salv (you can do the other one yourself.) This will be a lot less painful in the next patch, when non-Greater Blessings get improved to 15 minutes.
Like all DPS classes, wait for the tank to get aggro. In fact, you might want to wait a little longer than the rogues, because if you get some lucky (or unlucky) crits before the warrior builds up a lot of threat, you can quickly become a puddle on the floor. This is doubly important if you're in a group with Windfury Totem, which increases the chance of that happening. Oh, and try to always be in a group with Windfury, since it's great for your DPS.
And finally, use some kind of threatmeter, like KTM or Omen. This will help you learn when to back off when you're in danger of pulling. - Be a hybrid. Let's face it, ret pallies have a natural disadvantage right now. Exavier calculates that an equally geared and played rogue will out-DPS you by ten to twenty percent, and they also have a complete aggro wipe. Your utility lies in ... well, your utility. You can increase all damage done by your group by 2 percent if you have Imp Sanctity Aura. You can increase everyone's crit chance against your target by 3 percent if you judge Sanctified Crusader. And you can drop back and heal if it's absolutely necessary.
Because of this, it's always good to try a little harder. Bring a set of healing gear just in case it's needed. You still have Blessing of Protection and Lay on Hands to help the rest of the raid, so remember that you can use them. Bring mana potions, healing potions, and elixirs that will buff your melee DPS. Be friendly and helpful. And if your raid leader says he doesn't think ret pallies can raid, ask him for one chance and then give it all you've got. After all, it's what Uther would have done.
I'm sure some of you have been ret raiders, and probably know a ton more than I've garnered. What are your strategies on successful ret play? What seal do you use? What improvements do you think need to be made to make ret a more accepted raiding spec?
Filed under: Paladin, Raiding, (Paladin) The Light and How to Swing It






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
dragkhan Jul 31st 2007 11:44AM
Stop smoking the RETPIPE, Ret Tree is broke until Bliz does something, don't hold out being a gimp class.
Quoted from nihilum, top raid guild in Europe
"We aim for efficiency. So no, we do not use any Moonkins, Protection Paladins, Retribution Paladins or anything that is way below the standard classes that can do a much better job at said task."
dragkhan Jul 31st 2007 11:45AM
Correction a gimp spec, holy rocks =)
Angael Jul 31st 2007 1:27PM
We had a ret pally fill in on a few fights of Kara with us. I'm a holy pally and lets say that I was very proud. No he didn't top the DPS chart, but the server certainly didnt crash because a Ret Pally was dpsing in Kara, we downed Attumen, Moroes, and Big Bad Wolf, and Curator with him. He hasn't been in the rest of the fights but I'm confident he would do just fine.
Jeremy Jul 31st 2007 11:55AM
Because obviously Nihilum pays my $15 a month. I'll play whatever class/spec I choose, thanks =P
Xonate Jul 31st 2007 11:58AM
Eh, the spec needs work, but saying it can't be done is just retarded. I have a paladin friend in my guild who used to be retribution, (eventually he gave in... we needed more healers..) and he would almost always lead the DPS in instances, without ever stealing aggro off of the tank (me). Not only that, he was also completely ready to stand aside and heal if it was needed. Before he respecced to holy, I remember our guild leader, also a paladin, examining his talents and asking him how he did so much damage. Apparently it was a very simple combination of abilities, leading to my conclusion that most retribution paladins just try to over-do it, burning their mana and efficiency too quickly, making their damage dwindle for the rest of a fight.
Sylvina Jul 31st 2007 12:00PM
Dragkhan is everything that's wrong with WoW and if he's a Paladin, then the Paladin community. More people need to be tolerant of our fellow Paladin's & player's plight. Retribution sucks hardcore right now, but because the Retribution Paladin is trying harder, people will notice. You can spec Holy and spam Flash of Light, but unless you're really working your butt off and refreshing judgments, and doing other things aside from healing, the Ret Paladin is doing a lot more for the raid then you are as Holy.
James Jul 31st 2007 12:04PM
@1
Nihilum also raids, what was it, 6 hours a day 6 days a week? If you're going to be hardcore, then yeah, maybe a ret pally isn't the best class to bring to the raid. So, for all of you out there who are going to be playing for Nihilum or a guild of similar level, well, you probably won't get in with your ret pally. I know that this news has probably dashed the hopes of....two players? If that?
Despite their ability to tear through endgame content at amazing speed, the sun doesn't rise and set by Nihilum and whatever opinions they have on a particular class are applicable to them--not some guild that is raiding Kara every Friday night.
TotalBiscuit Jul 31st 2007 12:04PM
Jeremy - cool, play whatever you want, but don't expect any guild pushing progress to take you.
You're deliberately choosing a spec that is broken for raid viability. Hence the rest of us can choose not to raid with you, because we'd rather take someone more useful in our 10 and 25 man raids.
Ret needs fixing, until that time, anyone believing that it's viable for raiding needs to stop pretending. Other classes and specs are just far superior, that simple. If you take a retribution paladin you're deliberately gimping your raid. If you want to do that fine, that's your choice, you pay your subscription fee, and if you find a guild like that then more power to you.
TB.
muirA Jul 31st 2007 12:05PM
Ret paladins are epic failures. Every ret paladin on the planet thinks theyre awesome, but if you ever take one to a 25 man raid, even if their gear is far superior to that of the rest of the raid, they will still get blown away on the damage charts. I will never understand why people will roll a paladin to dps; our heals are second to none, our tanking can arguably rival that of a warrior with similar gear, and you expect to be a dps class too? Reroll a dps class and quit crying, kthx.
James Jul 31st 2007 12:07PM
Hmm, rereading your post dragkhan, has made me personally realize what a noob I must be for daring to roll a Boomkin when Nihilum truly does not recommend them. I have to go log in right now to delete the character so as to avoid the ridicule I'll experience from other players now that Nihilum has said they don't raid with that spec.
Xonate Jul 31st 2007 12:12PM
Sarcasm for the win!
Sylvina Jul 31st 2007 12:19PM
When will people realize that Damage Meters aren't everything? In fact, they're only there to tell you who is slacking off, not to wave your e-peen around. If people were focused more on DPS classes, there'd be a lot more rogues in raids, but that really doesn't seem to be the case as far as I notice with most guilds.
Bachus Jul 31st 2007 12:19PM
@ 9
if you listen to their rants, they aren't usually asking to be top 5 dps. they just want to be able to spec they way they want, and still get to raid. a shaman is accepted as melee for his melee buffs and top 10 dps, or as a caster with caster buffs and top 10 dps, or as healer with great AoE heals and tank buffing. lawladins just need a way to have a niche in a raid. my personal favorite is create a talent where a percentage of their dmg passively heals all around them. they're NOT (or at least, SHOULD NOT) be asking to out dps the pure classes.
Wulfhere Jul 31st 2007 12:23PM
Wow, even other paladins hate these guys?
Buff shaman is all I can say. Buff them.
Mats Jul 31st 2007 12:32PM
I would never bring along retarding if we (our guild) went up against something new and I wanted maximize our potential.
A good player as a ret-paly can outperform a normal/sub par DPS player (Mage, Warlock, Hunter, rogue), but a good DPS player would be miles above any good ret-play player when in equal gear.
Sure, there are ret-paladins all over the place, but thats good players in good guilds with his gimped class. 95% of the retardins out there today are not "good players" and should either pick a new class or be a average healer if they want to raid 25mans.
I'm afraid to many people think that paying 15$ gives them the right to raid 25 mans, no matter what spec or class they are playing. I regret to inform you all that it requires 15$, a needed class, a good spec, time invested in gear and learning your class, and some social attributes that lets you work in a group.
Urthona Jul 31st 2007 1:13PM
And I dont understand why anyone would roll a paladin, level to 70, and be satisifed with pressing 2 buttons and calling it a satisfying game experience. I love the Holy pallies in my guild, but I figure they're making popcorn and watching movies while I'm holding aggro, watching mana, and paying attention to boss phases.
I'm a druid MT, and my paladin is prot.
itsthemechanic Jul 31st 2007 12:37PM
Full Shadow Labyrinth clear last night:
#1 My mage (deep arcane/11 fire) with ~ 1.600.000 damage
#2 Ret pally with ~ 740.000 damage
For a DPS class, doing about half the damage of a mage just ain't shit. Heck, if he did even 3/4 he'd be viable, but this way I just have to pick up the slack.
Respec holy or even prot (decent prot palas are hard to find and a great challenging class to pay well imo, just like arcane mages) and stfu. :P
Coherent Jul 31st 2007 12:51PM
This happens a lot, where somebody mocks a class that they've never played, then eventually tries it and discovers to their horror and chagrin that everything they previously mocked is absolutely true and real and it's even worse than they've heard.
The only way to truly lead and coordinate people is to actually know the classes inside and out by playing them to raid-level. A well-rounded raid leader is a better raid leader, because he knows intimately what to expect from each class, and knows how to get it.
Regis Jul 31st 2007 12:59PM
Fixing the ret tree is great and is very needed (ret paladin here speaking), but in the end I think it still comes down to one thing: amount of healers.
My guild, and I think many others, lack healers overall and while allowing that paladin to go dps might seem like a good idea with the utility we bring, you will lose a healer.
Our guild is full of feral druids, elemental and enhancement shamans (just recruited our first full-time resto), and my biggest mistake was to ever pick up the healing role in the first place. Had I not done that I wouldn't be seen as "losing a great healer"... but then, if I hadn't we probably wouldn't have gone this far in raiding.
Erica Olson Jul 31st 2007 1:07PM
Perhaps Blizz should just do away with everything and only allow toons that are speced just so and have all cookie cutters with only the 2 or 3 spells/whatever that are needed for raiding.
Yep we can all look alike, spec alike and spam the same moves. Wow, how fun will that be. Who needs variety or the ability to be a hybrid that is a jack-of-all trades but master of none. A toon that can help in many ways.
Sure thing, I'm a Pally and I only heal. I'm a priest and I dps and don't heal. Let's go against what the classes were intended to be and become only what the raiding guilds want them to be.