Guildwatch: How casual is casual?
by Mike Schramm 
Aug 7th 2007 at 10:58PM
Do you consider your guild to be a casual one? If so, how often do you raid? Today in Guildwatch, we've got news of a guild that considers themselves casual, but has downed 3 bosses in Serpentshrine, and raids three nights a week, four hours a raid. Is that casual or hardcore? What is casual raiding, exactly? And have you ever heard of a guild that's working through Black Temple while only raiding once a week? Is that even possible?
Along with all those questions, we've got your weekly dose of guild drama, downed, and recruiting notices, as we do every week on Tuesday (and feel free to send us your own for next week, at wowguildwatch@gmail.com). Hit the link to check out this week's GW!
DRAMA
- This guild trash-talking thread from the Medivh forums (mostly about Catalyst) is pretty standard as far as guild back and forth goes, but what makes it really classic is Ruoxe's critique on page 2. That is a man (woman?) who cares about good drama and knows how to get it done. I especially like the tips on how to stretch the drama out beyond its original boundaries-- a good straw man argument not only keeps the flaming going for a few posts, but can sometimes get others involved in the meaningless blather. Good show.
- Shadow Syndicate of Ravenholdt has disbanded. Our tipster says that the guild's liberal recruiting policies are at fault, and that too many lowbies jumped aboard looking for instance runs and money. Eventually the officers got fed up, and closed the whole thing down. There's a new guild called Servants of a Dark God, and they're recruiting (hopefully a little more exclusively).
- OMG What team are you on?!?!?!?!?! Plz protect me from the scary Alliance kthx
- Reforged on Runetotem is a casual guild that's actually done good-- they've rolled through 3/6 bosses in Serpentshrine. Although their definition of "casual" is a little different than mine-- they still raid for four hours three times a week. Spending 12 hours a week raiding isn't casual, is it? What is casual raiding anyway?
- Obsolete on Whisperwind-A dropped Magtheridon, and in return, he dropped a pink glowy shield. You think a guy that badass would drop something cooler, no?
- My guild, Gothic Bunnies on Thunderhorn-H, wants you to know that they finally finished off Karazhan completely. Grats!
- Modus Operandi on Sentinels-A dropped Gruul like a sack of potatoes. Wait, do people really drop sacks of potatoes? I guess they dropped him more like a bad habit. Wait, isn't the thing about a bad habit that you don't really drop it when you're supposed to? Ok, well, they attacked him until his hit points reached zero. How about that?
- Valhalla on Stormreaver-H finished off Magtheridon, and the video's above-- is it cool to like Fort Minor? Because (except for that Kenji song, in which the lyrics are just horribly written), I think I do.
- Wicked of Thunderhorn-H, who we reported on last week, wanted to share their website with us. So there it is.
- Clan Slamdance of Garona-H has cleared out Karazhan, and Gruul is on notice. On notice!
- Rogues Take Zero Skill (winner of this week's Best Guild Name award) on Arthas-H is recruiting. They were apparently started by the guy who make the World of Roguecraft vids, and they're looking for people for the 25 man raids.
- Shinsei on Kilrogg is looking for a healing Druid, two Priests (Shadow and Disc), two Shamans (Elemental and Resto), and a raid specced Rogue for finishing up Kara and heading to Mags/SSC/TK
- Redeemed on Burning Blade-A just downed Void Reaver, and are still looking for a Shadow Priest, a Warlock, and a Warrior or Feral Druid.
- Dark Friends on Boulderfist-H have made it up to Curator, and are looking to start up a second group in Karazhan. They're also not PG-13, they say, and I assume that doesn't mean they're G.
- Legendary Heroes on EU Vekilnash is looking for a few good players to join them in Karazhan.
- lol wut of Dethecus-H has cleared Kara and Gruul, and it doing some limited recruiting. lol wut?
- Asylum on EU Aerie Peak-A is looking for fun, casual, skilled players that are Hunters, Warlocks, Shaman, Priests and Paladins.
- Order of the Eclipse on Proudmoore is trying to fill out a fourth (!) Karazhan group, and also working on Mags and SSC. They're an Aussie based guild, and they're LFS (that's looking for Shaman).
- Lan Party of Uldum-H is looking to recruit for Karazhan: a Mage, Warlock, a Holy Priest and another healer, and a Rogue or a Shadow Priest.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Raiding, Guildwatch
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Varus Aug 8th 2007 12:25AM
Casual guilds that raid?
I think the right term is "dedicated" (see, http://www.wowwiki.com/Dedicated, http://www.wowwiki.com/Casual, http://www.wowwiki.com/Hardcore)
That off my chest..
My guild doesn't raid. At all. We're not planning to go to Karazhan, or SSC or Black Temple. It might happen one day, but there are no active plans to recruit people for X or Y.
Most of our people are ex-raiders (pre-TBC) who don't like the normal loot-centric views of more "hardcore" raiding guilds where you're just basically a person filling a raid slot and not much more. We focus on community and social playing above everything else (no it doesn't mean we go around IF pretending we're on picnic). And we take that very seriously.
You might even say we're a bit hardcore and elitistic about being dedicated casual guild. :-) And on the other hand we're a really nice bunch of people who like to play the game together..
IKT Aug 8th 2007 1:34AM
""Most of our people are ex-raiders (pre-TBC) who don't like the normal loot-centric views of more "hardcore" raiding guilds""
loot-centric views?
The Kitchen Sink Aug 8th 2007 2:17AM
A pink glowy shield is the -definition- of cool, ya jerk.
Maax Aug 8th 2007 3:48AM
My guild also raids 3 nights a week 4 hours a raid, and we have killed 2 in SSC (Hydross, Lurker) and 2 in TK (Al'ar, Void Reaver). Its not that hard to progress with a light schedule if you have good people.
Rahul Aug 8th 2007 5:16AM
I had arguments with my guild, which I was in for 18 months, for a long time about the definition of "casual". They claimed they were a casual guild because they didn't force you to raid. But at the same time, you were frowned upon if you didn't attend 50% of the raids every week, and there were 4 raid days a week. On top of that, there was the typical guild system of "you don't get to spend DKP on anything if you attend less than 50% of raids". So there was definitely non-casual coercion going on there. Eventually I just stopped caring. I would tell them raiding AT ALL pretty much makes you a hardcore player, because you're dedicating a huge block of time (several hours) to one form of entertainment without any real breaks in between. Most people don't have this option unless they make serious choices about spending time on their hobbies. So I'd say that as soon as you're an active raider in a raiding guild, you're a hardcore player. Sure, you can be an on/off member in a guild that does dungeons and occasionally step into (part of) a raid and remain well within the confines of "casual" play, but once you make the change to start dedicating portions of your free time to raiding in WoW, then you've moved into the realm of the hardcore.
MartinC Aug 8th 2007 5:24AM
Casual guilds don't raid. Raiding requires too much of a time commitment, and
time commitment != casual
I've been playing the game for almost 2 years now, with a casual guild, and it's been great fun. We play twice a week, 4 hours per. Never done a raid, and have no desire to. We have plenty of fun with 5-mans, or switching things around with different alts.
I have to laugh when people try to get me to join their guild, or sign up for raids. "Come on! Raid with us! You just need to give up your Friday nights, and all day on weekends!" Umm, NO.
Eric Aug 8th 2007 7:34AM
You people think you are casual? Scheduling your play nights and playing for multiple hours? You don't know the first thing about casual.
I've been casually playing WoW for two years now, my main is level 62 and I also have a level 29 and 22. I play, if I'm lucky, for 15-30 minutes a day during the week. My big play time is Saturday/Sunday morning when I get an hour and a half at 6 a.m. in the morning to play.
Top that.
chaz Aug 8th 2007 8:32AM
@7
I play with a newborn in one arm. And by "playing" i mean fishing, exclusively.
I am ubercasual.
Ariakhas Aug 8th 2007 8:39AM
@1 Thank you for bringing about a third category of gamers to the table. Unfortunately, the casuals will look at the dedicated and call them hardcore and viceversa.
Talk about the War with the Middle Class... of Gamers. =P
IKT Aug 8th 2007 10:16AM
@8 .. i guess by that standard you're a casual and i'm pretty hardcore, but then what do we call the guys who top pve/pvp encounters? aka nihilum, forte, last resort, ej, dnt, risen etc?
And no witty remarks pls.
Levi Aug 8th 2007 10:57AM
With the way attunements for Mount Hyjal and in turn Black Temple are right now, it's going to be a while before any guild that doesn't dedicate a good chunk of time to raiding gets to see that content.
Birthmark Aug 8th 2007 10:58AM
I think casuals are people who would never read a website like this. Never read the message boards other than their class board. And pretty much only log in when they're bored. Kind of like playing zelda. Sure my friends and I might spend countless hours playing zelda but we don't play it on a schedule. We don't have to log in 4 nights a week at at 6;30. They would pretty much never raid and don't have a WoW shedule in other words. Some of my best friends play like that and play on my account. So I'd say everyone on this site is hardcore.
Neifir Aug 8th 2007 11:06AM
My guild, Dominion on Tanaris, is a Casual Raiding Guild. With about 40 raiding members and our plethora of alts, we've made it all the way up to the Prince in Kara. Pretty good for a guild only 3 or 4 months old now ^_^. We also do not use dkp. Why? We're all dedicated. I'm probably the only one who's a filler as a raider. Out of WoW commitments and all, but when they need a healer and I'm on, you bet I'm there. Our drops are dispersed upon need and through the master looter system. We felt that DKP was good for a larger raiding guild, but for a smaller it, it was a hassle. I was asked to pass on the belt drop from Illhoof for the reason of being a fill in. And I understand the reasoning. If I were more fulltime, we raid 3-4 nights a week, I'd have had an equal chance to roll. Even then, I'd have passed. The other priest had more of a need for it as I've got most of my Primal Mooncloth set. We've already kicked a member or two for "lieing" about their gear. As in, finding under-par gear to swap into during raid to hopefully get a better shot at the good stuff. Our Guild/Raid leader caught on real quick. Such a direct intent to swindle gear earned a /gkick. Though I really liked a particular member, we all did, that was un-excusable. Well, enough of the drama. Enjoy ^_^
Gritz Aug 8th 2007 11:37AM
Hardcore vs casual is like comparing OP vs balanced. Everyone has their own opinion, and presents it as fact. Here's a few examples:
Hardcore -> Casual
Raids Kara -> PuGs Slabs
Raids SSC -> Raids Kara
Raids Black Temple -> Raids SSC
Plays for 30 hours/week -> Plays for 10 hours/week
Plays for 60 hours/week -> plays for 30 hours/week
Has a level 70 -> still leveling
Has 2 70's -> Has 1 70
Has 4 70's -> Has 2 70's
Has a 1900 rated 2v2 -> has a 1300 rated 2v2
Has a 2200 rated 2v2 -> has a 1900 rated 2v2
etc.
Pingmeister Aug 8th 2007 11:19AM
I think there is plenty of stuff in-between.
Not just "casual" and "hardcore"
Can we get a defined ranking system please? :)
I am step-above baby-in-arms-fishing. I do not group. So no raiding or PvPing. I just love to solo.
I think we need about 12 steps of WoW'er.
1. Baby-in-arms fishing
2. Loves to kill lowbie boars
3. Levels up a character but no organized playing
4. Dabbles in groupage
5. Groups, occasionally PvPs. Actually cares about equipment quality
6. Tries to build strongest character possible. Groups, PvPs.
7. Serious, talent-specific group player.
8. Occasional raider.
9. Is in Guild for raiding.
10. Dedicated to specific gear and talents for current raid target. Part of dedicated raid team
11. All game time is raiding of funding raids. PvP and PvE is an annoyance suffered through to continue raiding. May have actual life outside game.
12. Lives to raid. Has jug at computer for urine, box for feces. Takes one day off a month to rob banks to fund WoW habit
kela Aug 8th 2007 11:30AM
Sorry to post (somewhat) off topic but our "casual raiding guild" actually just fell apart due to people being unable to agree on what "casual" actually meant.
So we have decided to start our WoW life over on a new server. If you are an experienced player who would like to start your WoW life over please check us out on trouble.guildlaunch.com and if you like what you see, drop us an app.
dotorion Aug 8th 2007 11:45AM
I agree with Gritz , tbh.
amasen Aug 8th 2007 12:16PM
casual is playing when you can, without playing too much a week and too much at a time...
Hardcore is scheduling your life around a game. This is what almost all raiding guilds have and require.
Armath Aug 8th 2007 1:13PM
It's not about hardcore or casual, it's about the space in between. And there a whole lotta space in between here.
Further, you can apply "hardcore" and "casual" to several areas of the game, such as PvP, PvE (raiding), and fishing. Especially fishing. :-)
If you're talking WoW in general, raiding is clearly "hardcore" - you must have progressed to level 70, have become attuned for raids, have appropriate gear (lots of instancing and grinding involved there), etc. I figure that's a time commitment of at least 200 hours over 4-8 months. That's a solid MONTH of 8-hour days, devoted to nothing but WoW.
Once you start raiding, the spectrum shifts, so that even though you're a hardcore-ish WoW player, you're not a "hardcore raider". I'm a casual instancer (I've done maybe 3/4ths of the Outland instances with my L70 druid), and plan to be an even more casual raider when I get qualified for Kara. Compared to me, people who raid regularly, much less 2-3 times a week, are hardly casual.
So what about the most hardcore of the hardcore? @10 asked: "What do we call the guys who top pve/pvp encounters? aka nihilum, forte, last resort, ej, dnt, risen etc?"
My answer to that: pathological
benias Aug 8th 2007 4:32PM
First of all i am the GM of reforged. My play schedule has gone from barely making three raids a week and having to log immediatly afterwards (wife aggro) to being able to dedicate 20 hours a week plus to playing and hanging out with people (wife now plays).
We are a late night "casual" raiding guild. We are very skilled players that for a variety of reasons have to raid between 10pm-2am in order to fit it around life/job/kids/etc..... I understand that to a non raider, raiding seems hardcore. However to a guild of highly skilled players there is not much left to do other then raiding. We ran all the 5 mans, did all the heroics, so what else is left?
What we have done, with a pretty high level of success, is develop a raiding environment that allows you to not show up when stuff comes up, and not fear getting guilted. The only thing we ask is that you communicate so that the other 20+ people that show up and commit to losing some sleep to raid dont get jipped out of the opportunity to raid because you couldnt take two min to communicate. I dont think its asking a lot and for the most part we have a lot of success with our method.
Currently we are recruiting a few more people to help accomodate for burnout/vacation/whatever else life throws at people. If you are interested please look us up at www.reforged-runetotem.com