Considering a real simulated reality
Those of you who are regular readers might have figured out by now that I'm very interested in the relationship between the real and the virtual world, but the latest post at Terra Nova goes far beyond any simple reasoning I've ever done. Basically, they sum up some speculation being performed by academics that says that just like we Earthlings have created our own virtual worlds (in Azeroth and elsewhere), it's somewhat, maybe possible that we ourselves actually live in someone else's virtual world.Wow. To me, that's so far off the beaten path that who knows where to begin with it-- you've got religion in there somewhere, as well as the old question of our existence itself. But supposing that were true (and it's almost too big a jump for even me to make, except for the fact that even if it is true, we'll likely never know it), what would you do if you were living in a virtual world? Would you act differently? Would you be a griefer? Or would you play the game, play by the rules, and help yourself and others not only "win," but have fun too? It seems a little loony (because who wants to admit that their world is someone else's toy?), but it's a fascinating thought experiment that should help you examine both how you're living your life and how you want to live it-- what would you do if you were an NPC in a virtual world?
Of course, things get even stranger, because we don't just create virtual worlds-- we play in them. Azeroth isn't just full of NPCs-- it's full of us, walking around, killing things, and generally taking (and taking over) whatever we want. If our world really is someone else's, does that mean they're here too?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Odds and ends






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
infection Aug 15th 2007 1:51PM
What are you talking about "if"
We ARE living in a vitual world. If you play WoW, that is your life.
GG Blizzard
Tarantel Aug 15th 2007 1:53PM
This was the plot of the 90s movie "The 13th Floor".
Corrodias Aug 15th 2007 1:55PM
This was the plot of the 90's movie The Matrix.
Vekh Aug 15th 2007 1:58PM
Hmmm, I haven't seen this movie in a long time, but from what I can remember, The Thirteenth Floor, is exactly what you just described. Basically there's a virtual world that was created, and none of the people in it know that they are actually just AI programs.
ben1778 Aug 15th 2007 2:10PM
Star Ocean ftw. Not giving any spoilers away. It just fits here.
badassmutherfucker Aug 15th 2007 2:12PM
this is a traditional philosophical debate
Eyegore Aug 15th 2007 2:13PM
Looks to me like this essentially is just a technological rephrasing of religion, the god/gods renamed as the creator(s) of the simulation. It just leaves us with the exact same questions of 'in his/their image?' 'is he/they interacting or observing'. Sure it is possible, anything is possible, but actually latching on to it just seems like a sentimental attempt to keep old superstitions relevant.
Pete Aug 15th 2007 2:15PM
Old, very old.
The philosopher Rene Descartes thought about all this almost 400 years ago. Obviously he didn't use the term "virtual world", but he did imagine that his senses could be manipulated by some powerful demon.
Richard Aug 15th 2007 2:21PM
This is exactly why many university philosophy classes actually study films like The Matrix...
Do we live in a virtual world? Are we all just the figment of someone's rampant imagination? How could we prove it? How could we disprove it?
Candina@WH Aug 15th 2007 2:23PM
It is older than Descartes. Plato said that man perceived 'real' events only as the shadows of those events cast on the walls of the cave that all men live in.
ben1778 Aug 15th 2007 2:31PM
Even though an idea may be old, it's new to Mike. So, from his perspective, it's a "new" idea. Especially discussing this topic (of how one's perception may not be one's "full" reality) how can someone just go off and label something as "old news" etc??
Watch 13th floor.
Play star ocean (awesome rpg for PS2)
You can go a step further and think about how "reality" is only a personal construct that can't ever be shared with anyone else. Does observing a phenomenon change it, or are we changed by observing it? Yes to both? If thigns change sinmply from being observed, how could anyone ever know what is "real" or "true" if by observing a phenomenon it canges. Is it even a valid goal to discover what you would label "reality"?
In the end it's a lot of semantics and depends heavily on exactly how you define the language used. In order to have a meaningful discussion everyone needs to be using the same terms to mean the same thing.
Mike Schramm Aug 15th 2007 2:43PM
Well it's not that new to me-- of course I've heard of Descartes and I know about the problem of proving your existence and Plato's Cave and so on. I've seen the Matrix and 13th Floor.
But thinking about it in the frame of MMOs is a new way of seeing it all for me. Note that this theory doesn't suggest that you are a *player* in an MMO-- anyone can imagine that the world around them doesn't exist (and really, it only exists through our senses anyway-- and if memory is any indication, our senses can't be trusted either).
No, it suggests that you are *an NPC*, there to uphold and support the lives of players. That's a super weird thought that I've never considered before.
swatltlen Aug 15th 2007 2:41PM
Plato's The Allegory of the Cave (which can be found in The Republic ~360BC) predates all of the above and is openly cited as a source.
Ian ORourke Aug 15th 2007 3:25PM
Yeah, that was a program on British TV a while back about how, as science pushes more and more boundaries, the question of God continued to come up. Basically, the more science pushed, they more signs kept coming up that some intelligence may be behind the Universe. Long time ago, so I can't remember the details, but it was something to do with a number of common factors, etc.
Anyway, that's not the main point, one of the elements of the program was how computers might eventually make it possible for us to simulate bigger and bigger elements of the Universe and Life to which would help us start to answer some of the still 'unknown mysteries'.
The trouble was, it then went full circle, and postulated that if we are slowly aiming to do that, simulate more and more of what constitutes life to find answers - who is to say it hasn't already been done, we are it and that is essentially the secre behind some of these common, can't be an accident factors science keeps encountering.
I thought it was interesting anyway. I'm summarising, it was a well thought through documentary, not sensationalist,etc.
Ian ORourke Aug 15th 2007 2:45PM
There is also actual scientific stuff going on now that starts to merge with fringe science and the like, which puts forward that physical reality may not define consciousness, but consciousness may define physical reality and that we are only binding ourselves, etc.
All interesting, or I find it interesting anyway.
Erica Olson Aug 15th 2007 3:03PM
Not new but very old belief.
These days it seems that humanity would rather live in a virtual world and not in the "real" world. I gather it's easier and you can have whatever you want and do in virtuality.
As the great Douglas Adams said "Reality, we have reality. Anything you cannot deal with is therefore your own problem".
xcb Aug 15th 2007 3:09PM
I wish there was an MMORPG device that the Gnomes/Goblins had created, that would allow me to play my real life inside of WoW.
The Crowing One Aug 15th 2007 3:14PM
The idea that we are an imperfect reflection of a perfect world is nothing new, as everyone has pointed out.
The strange piece when it comes to our own virtual worlds is the way in which our avatars take shape as more powerful/perfect than ourselves, which in a philosophical discussion would align WoW closer to the "kingdom of heaven" or "ultimate reality" than to a smaller, and less perfect representtation of ourselves. In a way, we are the imperfect reflections of our perfect characters, which stands to center the universe again on our own world.
Queuetip Aug 15th 2007 6:43PM
Is it a coincidence that this was an article at NYTimes.com yesterday?
pokute Aug 15th 2007 4:00PM
I've always felt that some people in this world behave much like NPCs...