Melee Haste and Spell Haste equal on PTR?
by Matthew Rossi 
Aug 18th 2007 at 10:42AM
A posting on the general forums complains that melee haste has been reduced in effectiveness on the PTR, making it grant the same values per rating as spell haste. The debate rages as to what effect this will have on rogues trying to stay on top of the damage meters in raids, whether it will mean that top raiding guilds have no reason to bring rogues over ranged DPS, whether it also unfairly hurts feral druids, enhancement shamans and other melee DPS classes. Rogues mention that they have a lack of utility in raids and as a result, this is a large blow to their effectiveness.
What are your thoughts? Will this make rogues less or more reliant on haste potions? Does this hurt melee DPS even more in raids or will it have a negligible effect? Is it purely based off of epics and legendaries that most players will never see, like the Warglaive of Azzinoth? Is melee haste still 'better' than spell haste because melee attacks don't cost mana?
Thanks to World of Raids for a concise breakdown of the issue.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Classes
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
draeth Aug 18th 2007 11:24AM
I have never seen more than 1 or 2 rogues in my raid groups. A mage/lock/spriest has more utility in raids so rogues are often being over looked. This haste nerf could hurt their chances even more. Why would blizzard screw with haste rating?
quaunaut Aug 18th 2007 11:34AM
A lot of casters complain about the DPS a Rogue/Fury Warrior can put out, but they complain out of ignorance more than anything. This entire expansion has had dozens of fights that are just-plain melee unfriendly, and melee is already a much higher liability role than a ranged DPSer.
I don't think they should beat ranged classes too much, but having the upper hand IS a good idea.
brett Aug 18th 2007 12:20PM
Spellhaste is generally a waste of stats given that anything that drives your casting below the gcd is pointless. Point for point crit and hit are generally better.
Dabura Aug 18th 2007 12:44PM
I agree with what @3 said, but still some spell haste will increase dps a little, but when it you can cast faster than gcd ur wasting it, and anyway why should melee haste give more than spell haste?
Rerolled Aug 18th 2007 1:30PM
Another example of blizzard's tendency to make broad, poorly thought out nerfs with wide-reaching consequences when a much simpler solution would suffice. Instead of just nerfing the one or two overpowered +haste items (dragonspine trophy and maybe the twin blades of azzinoth), they do something retarded like this and completely alter the game's balance.
Gurei Aug 18th 2007 1:55PM
Not a problem for feral druids,that stat isnt really efective for them anyway.
Halicante Aug 18th 2007 2:50PM
Well spell haste suffered from a big nerf when they changed it from ~12 spell haste for 1% spell haste to 21. This was because blade of wizardry and quag's eye were spectacularly OP. At the same time, melee were getting 1% haste from ~10 spell haste rating.
They have now equalized them both to be 1% for 15.7 haste. It's a nerf for melee but a buff for the casters, who had previously been extranerfed. shrug...time will show if this equalizes haste now. It's still not a good stat to itemize for as a caster, but this helps a little.
CountChocula Aug 18th 2007 3:01PM
Am I the only one that thought one of the blades was a giant sharp glowing codpiece at first glance?
Pook Aug 18th 2007 3:37PM
"Am I the only one that thought one of the blades was a giant sharp glowing codpiece at first glance?"
I believe you were....but on a second look, it is rather phallic...
Lastembrace Aug 18th 2007 4:03PM
Phallic? I'd be kinda scared if my phallice resembled anything quite like that.
On topic; melee and spell haste effect totally different things. Melee haste only effects white damage, so this nerf to melee haste is primarily a rogue nerf since rogues are the only class that relies so much on white damage. Spell haste generally just needs to be reworked cause it caps based on global cooldown.
Conclusion, spell haste needed to be reworked, melee haste was fine. Badly thought out nerfs (and ones not even mentioned on patch notes for that matter) ftl.
PNess Aug 18th 2007 7:29PM
seems melee is really getting the stick in raids, first WF then haste...combined gotta be good for 15%
phlipy Aug 19th 2007 9:10AM
Just another rogue-nerf. No surptise.
PsyThrock Aug 19th 2007 9:48PM
Melee haste will still be extrordinary, and spell haste will still be pretty bad in its current form.
This will not affect anything but the highest end of the game at the moment, where you can stack large amounts of +haste, as talents are % based, not rating based. You'll see casters getting a minute amount of damage added, and rogues putting out more realistic numbers.
We were at the point where spell haste needed to be completely redesigned, and work similar to either the old spell penetration/negative resist system, or something new that was as large of a spell damage increase as melee aste is, or melee haste needed to be toned down, as there is nothing even close to that obtainable for casters.
Its not a surprise they chose the later. Longer global cooldowns and associated mana costs are harder to work with than melee speed.
For Spell haste to be the equivalent of melee haste, you'd have to reduce mana costs by the same % of spell haste, and that could possibly cause a few issues.
Ambrose Aug 21st 2007 9:43AM
#13 "This will not affect anything but the highest end of the game at the moment, where you can stack large amounts of +haste, as talents are % based, not rating based."
I felt I needed to reply as this is way off the mark.
Itemisation for haste begins in Tier 3 and 4 (not T6 as above poster would have you believe).
-Abacus of Violent Odds: drops from end boss in Mechanar
-Dragonspine Trophy: drops from Gruul
-Haste potions
-Mongoose enchant (not sure if this is affected)
-Thunder Skyfire Diamond (meta gem)
This will affect any melee in Karazhan and beyond. Don't accept any other answer.
kohaku Aug 21st 2007 11:15AM
I agree with #14, i believe this nerf will further reduce the utility and thus raid spots for rogue
RogueDragonmaw Aug 27th 2007 12:52PM
Guild leader on Dragonmaw. I do not like taking rogues to Kara or Gruuls for the simple fact we can get other dps geared better and faster who in turn do more damage. Something does seem unfair to rogues but as a guild leader, I have to worry about the guild as a whole. Not rogues. We currently run 5 Kara groups and 1 25 man gruuls. I took 2 rogues to gruuls and we have 1 rogue and sometimes no rogues in our kara groups. I had our druid DE spiteblade at least 4 times and other daggers and rogue gear often.
blumpkin Sep 4th 2007 4:34PM
ive raided now at 70 for a while and i ussually see the geared melee at the top of the dps meters mixed in with a few of the geared casters. notice anything itneresting about that. its that there geared and not all of these people were using abilities or trinekts that increased there haste rating, honestly playing as a ranged dps is beneficial in way more than half of the fights you encounter in tbc, but when the melle statys sharp and does what they need to do to stay alive they are in no way a liability
Exorcizt Nov 6th 2007 9:11PM
I don't believe Blizzard actually thinks before they act.
Blizzard should read other forums, like this one, to consult with players about the alternative actions they could use to change the game play. I know a lot of ppl who just quit because of things like this. Like if someone has just a little bit of haste, wat was already low maybe increasing their wep speed by 10%. It will ruin them.
Ps. I think they should allow you to knock people over with snowballs again, even let it increase a warriors rage again. Now they are like retarded, and do nothing. I'd rather play with a "Heavy Leather Ball," it lasts forever, until someone runs away with it lol, and its more fun.
Someguy Nov 19th 2007 8:51PM
The only reason Bliz even messed with snowball as they did is because people who couldnt take a joke complained about it because it reset the hearth stone cast