Ask WoW Insider: Instance etiquette
by Barb Dybwad 
Aug 24th 2007 at 3:00PM
It's time once again for Ask WoW Insider to publish one of your questions for the community to answer. Last week we heard a ton of great ding stories, and this week we examine a possible breach of instance etiquette. Pelia on Greymane writes: Last night I was leading a PUG into DM East and about 10 minutes into the instance our mage says "hey guys, i g2g in 20 minutes..." Since we were just starting the instance, I dropped him and instantly started looking for a replacement that would be able to run the whole instance with us. The mage was surprised and said "I said 20 minutes!"What say you, readers -- did the mage commit an instance faux pas? Most of us have rushed to complete a dungeon whilst an exasperated significant other/parent/child/spouse/friend waited for our tardy asses to show up somewhere, but what's an acceptable limit for a "gtg soon!" announcement? Would you go into a dungeon knowing you had to replace a member part way through?
Should I have let him stay in our group until he really needed to go? The group had just formed, so I didn't really feel I owed anything to him. Plus I couldn't use the LFG tool/channel if he stayed since we already had 5 people... I figured I owed it to the rest of the group to find a 5th person that was in it for the long haul...
Was I being a good leader, or a jerk... or both?
Our kingdom for your questions! Please send us what you'd like to know for next week at ask AT wowinsider DOT com.
Filed under: Instances, Ask WoW Insider
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Skriz Jan 7th 2009 10:37PM
This has only one simple solution to it.
If you have been in an instance before and know it can take a while to complete and your time will not allow the finish of the instance, you simply DO NOT GO on the run. simple.
If your guild is about to raid in 45mins you DO NOT group up with another group that will need more of your time.
Creelie Jan 21st 2009 9:48PM
What's this? Some people give a heads-up before they leave? I started playing a couple of months ago, and so far it seems to be the norm for at least one person to vanish halfway through the run - no delay at all, just "gtg" and then gone.
I guess the kind of people who would warn their teammates if they were running out of time are more likely to not start an instance at all. That leaves you with people who do have enough time, and people who don't care. The latter go on my ignore list; they'll be in for a nasty surprise if they try to get heals from me in the future.
I sure hope the ignore list doesn't have a cap.
gamerchick39 Jan 22nd 2009 4:16PM
I think the leader did the right thing by dropping the mage, I mean I know there are some instances that you can run in a short period of time, but the mage should have not even tried to run it if they knew they would be leaving soon.
Other than that 20 minutes is a good G2G time i think, but only acceptable if an instance or group is taking way longer than expected ya know?
Epiny Aug 24th 2007 3:08PM
If you just started the instance that's cool. When I know I'm leaving soon I try to wait for right after a boss fight. There is usually a nice lull in action so the group can safely replace me. I "normally" give a 5 minute warning, then a "after next pull" warning. Then I say bye, and hearth. I normally don't have time to stay since I'm sure they will beg for me to stay. (I'm a healer) I have been cussed out for leaving before an instance was early aswell. /shrug
Derelict Aug 24th 2007 3:09PM
Doing that encourages folks *not* to tell you until the moment they have to leave, which sucks for your group.
A much better way to handle it would be "Sure, please look for someone to take your place while we proceed."
If you didn't have someone waiting to take his spot then yes, the group leader was being a tool :)
D
Arras Aug 24th 2007 3:10PM
a bit blunt, but not overly rude or mean in my opinion. The mage's obligation was to say, up-front, I can run it...but I gotta log in X amount of time. If something came up suddenly, that's one thing, but you shouldn't have to gimp yourself because of his poor time management skills.
I think you made the best of a lousy situation.
Besides, Pugs always seem to have a sense of lawlessness in them anyways, so who really cares? >:)
Scruffy Aug 24th 2007 3:13PM
What's all that crap they were saying before? Don't change horses midstream?
Sorry to the mage but, yeah, that was the right thing. ...mostly. They could have been nicer and said, "Hey man, if you're going so soon, we're gonna get someone who can roll through the entire place."
Valalvax Aug 24th 2007 3:15PM
I think the mage was a dumbass for starting an instance he knew he wouldn't be able to stay for at least a fourth of... kinda like back when MC was first being pugged, people would get in a raid, and when the group hadn't filled up 20 minutes later go "Omfg I didn't know it'd take this long", it's a fucking raid instance... doing the actual instance (with a pug that probably sucks) will take nine plus hours anyway
InsaneAssault Aug 24th 2007 3:18PM
You were absolutely within your rights to drop him from the group. I myself never go into an instance if I knew I had leave halfway. The mage is just being greedy by asking to stay the extra 20 minutes. He would be gimping the rest of the run just so he could gain some extra exp and have a chance of getting a blue, all the while the other four people will have to pay for it after he leaves. The mage should have bowed out gracefully in any situation.
Tinwhisker Aug 24th 2007 3:19PM
If you've got someone that's ready to fill the spot and complete the instance handy, yeah. Let the mage know that you've got someone who can do the run and say goodbye.
If you don't have someone to replace him, start the run with him but let him know that you will replace him when you have someone available.
PuGs are notorious for being slow to start; just because you don't have the group you will finish with doesn't mean you shouldn't start.
The mage had no reason to be upset but there was no reason to drop him either.
Chris Aug 24th 2007 3:22PM
Why in the hell would someone join a pug for an instance run when they only 20 min to play? IMO he is the tool for wasting your time by inviting him and then having to start all over again. Even in guild I will not join an instance run when I know I will not be able to finish it, it's just not fair to the rest of the group.
Hollywood Ron Aug 24th 2007 3:26PM
Generally if someone gives me a time limit, I'll start searching guild chat or the friends list for an adequate replacement and let them know that in 20 minutes (in this case) I'll have an opening for (insert role here). I try not to boot folks unless they deserve it.
-----
Ron
http://www.flektor-blog.com
mrkleen Aug 24th 2007 3:27PM
Drop him like hogger, I never run pugs unless I know I have the time to see it through. If you can only play for a half hour, go F$%*ing farm something or try to level your prof but don't join a pug it just sucks for everyone else in the group when you have to stop what you are doing fight through respawns to use the summoning stone and just about start all over again. People should not expect you will keep them around to run 20 minutes of trash mobs just to have to look for more later.
Obviously you should politely explain why you are about to to drop them since you will often see the same people on chan 4, if they are rude to you after that you probably dont want to put up with them for the length of an instance anyway.
Epiny Aug 24th 2007 3:28PM
ALSO Sometimes I get tells to join an instance. My first reaction is how much time do I have. Then I normally say, can we do this in "insert random time here" usually 1 to 1 1/2 hours for me. They always say yes even though I know full well we can't. I'm guilt free though when I leave.
molecule Aug 25th 2007 2:18PM
Are you sure he meant GTG as in "Got to Go"? I've run across lots of people who are trying to say "Good to Go..."
Maybe he was telling you he'd be ready in 20 minutes.
Andrew Aug 24th 2007 3:36PM
Eh, hell with them. It's very nice of them to let you know ahead of time that they have to leave instead of just bailing with no warning halfway through the instance, but they shouldn't be surprised if you're not okay with them only sticking around for 20 minutes. It's kind of a pain in the ass to have to backtrack and find a replacement, or to be distracted by looking for a replacement while you're trying to concentrate on the instance.
Guidinglight Aug 24th 2007 3:38PM
I would have done the same thing.. Don't start something unless you can finish it. I understand if emergences happen, but if you know ahead of time you have 20 minutes then go f'n quest.
Since we are talking about etiquette, lets talk about people not listening to the tank or the person leading the instance.
We came up to some LOS pulls and the lock sent his pet right into seduce instead of allowing me to pull the mob closer to use away from pats. Of course we got the pat. I turned and bolted immediatly along with the healer. If the healer would have engaged then I would have of because being the tank it is my responsiblity to keep him alive.
I have noticed that rogues seem to be the most impatient and I have kicked quite a few from my group. I have no patience to try to play with people who don't listen. They then say something like "your too slow" then I respond did you see the healer had no mana. Or of course if they pull it most of the time I will let them tank it.
It takes more time to walk back from the graveyard then it does to be just a little patient. I would rather call in a guildie or find a replacement then have a high repair bill.
Treat it like real life would u walk ahead of the tank in the battleground?
I can't stand it when people don't give me just a little room to lead. It's always great when someone pulls and then they just come running back to the group like save me. Or I get close to mark the mob and then I have a friggin dps'er standing right next to me, like wtf are u doing this far up. I told you I would pull back a little so we have room in case something happens.
My goal is to get in and get out, if you slow me down then you be gone.
I have also kicked people for not come prepaired.. If you tell me after one death that you need to repair then odds are you are gona stay in town.
I could go on and on about this stuff. What about when a dps'er starts a group gets it full then gets into the instance and pass the lead to the tank automatically figuring they will mark. I have actually disbanded groups cause of that crap. If the group is strong then I will do it, but don't automatically assume the tank is gona mark. I will agree that more often then not they will, but everytime I tanked a new instance I want someone else to mark, someone that knows the instance better.
How about the groups that disband after the first wipe. I hate that crap. Being a paladin tank I don't usually have wipes, but the other night in Arc (my first time tanking through it) I was just having a hard time. We had to repair before the first boss, I was disappointed in my performance but the group stuck together and we did finish it. Afterward I thanked everyone and the druid that marked for me. He knew the instance and lead us thru. Now thanks to them I know what to do and can lead the next group.
I know it's just a game but when I go into instancing I treat it just like my job. I run with a good group, that listens, comes prepaird and gets the job done.
Usually after the first few pulls you will have a sense for the group either they are meshing or everyone is just doing their own thing.
Oh i have GOT to list this last one. How about when you get into a group, get all the way to the instance and then just get kicked. I had this happen to me for Caverns of Time, BM. I got kicked by some guy and he gave me no explination and put me on ignore. So I logged my main and asked him why. He said my gear sucked.. I laughted at him and told him I have cleared BM plenty of times. He told me he brought in a guildie. I told him he should have just let me know that. I will sometimes talk to the guild master about the actions of their memebers.
Kavaa Aug 24th 2007 3:44PM
Well, there seems to be a split in opinions here. My opinion, I think if you cant run the whole instance you should not run it at all. Only exception would be if you and some friends or guild mates are farming gear or rep and have agreed ahead of time that one or all may leave early.
As for etiquette, you were with in your right, but you may want to warn the early leaver that you are going to look for a replacement. The LFG system does still work when you are in a fun group. It will not allow auto inviting, but it will let you search for players interested in the instance.
So to sum up.
1. Ask the group if they wish to proceed for the next 20 min and then find an alt (they should have a say)
2. Let the early leaver know what the groups decision is.
3. if you are going to keep going till they have to leave, take drink breaks to find a replacement.
As for etiquette for the early leaver:
1. upfront notification of time schedule.
2. FIND AN APPROPRIATE REPLACEMENT FOR YOUR SELF
3. if you are a healer or tank (much harder to replace) dont go if you dont have time.
4. In all cases listed above, real life comes in to play. Emergencies happen and cant be avoided. These rules apply to know time lines. Work, school, bed, food... know your schedule and be polite. If the emergency allows, try to help find a replacement.
Darkwarder Aug 24th 2007 3:42PM
It's completely rude for someone to join a group and then drop (there are exceptions). I'm a little surprised that some of the comments think it's ok. Personally, I stay away from PuGs. My guild keeps a list of people that shouldn't be grouped with, these kind of people would be added to the list.
andrea Aug 24th 2007 3:54PM
It is not acceptable for anyone to join an instance group without having at least 1 hour set aside for it. Even more so, if you are pugging it, since those seem to take much longer than a normal group.
If you aren't doing that, you are a rude thoughtless player, and another reason why pugs suck.
Having said that though, if I am pugging, I will gladly abandon your group if it's going poorly...and will lie about it as well. Cats on fire g2g.