Another class issue post gets a blue response
After Druids got a blue's attention last week with a well-written class issues list, the Shaman have done the same. Danemoth of Blade's Edge server has posted a short, concise list of Shaman issues. And already got a blue response. The response was just a tag by a CM, but it shows they are listening.Here is a summary:
1) Shaman specs outside of Restoration lack survivability.
2) No pushback resistance for Lightning Spells put a hamper on solo grinding / farming as well as in PvP.
3) Totems immobility and short range need to be buffed.
4) Other classes got new skills/spells in TBC that changed their playstyle, Shamans did not.
5) Enhancement shaman lack significant ranged combat abilities as well a way to chase down fleeing opponents.
6) Threat management is a bigger issue than ever with the TBC talents boosting shaman dps.
7) Shaman have issues handling an assist train. (When someone gets zerged by multiple opponents).
8) Lack of a way to deal with other classes' crowd control abilities put shaman at a distinct disadvantage in PvP.
9) Off-spec Shaman itemization is poor in Karazhan and beyond.
10) Flametongue and Frostbrand Weapon both scale poorly.
11) Windfury and Stormstrike demand the shaman using the slowest weapon for maximum dps gain, but that concept is counter to the weapon normalization introduced in patch 1.8.
12) Shamans need more control over their fire-and-forget Totems to direct them at a specific target or to stop them from breaking cc.
13) The large global cool down associated with dropping four Totems in combat makes it difficult for the Shaman to be responsive to changes in combat.
Read the whole list through the link. If I've misinterpreted something, list it below.
Filed under: Shaman, Analysis / Opinion






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Rich Aug 29th 2007 11:21AM
14) Shamans occasionally die.
15) Shamans can not Karazhan.
...
Some of those are legitimate, but the sum total of it is just the guy upset that he isn't OP. Some of the ones that stuck out for me were 3, 5, 7, and 8 (Tremor Totem?).
Rich Aug 29th 2007 11:21AM
should have said "can not *solo* Karazhan"
jasper Aug 29th 2007 11:38AM
The trend I see about all these comments regarding "issues" with class is that everybody wants to eliminate weaknesses. The slippery slope logic in that is pretty ridiculous. Think of all the arguments for hunters, who are mainly physical ranged dps. As a matter of fact, I'll list my grievances. Listen up Blizz, or I'm quitting this darn game to spite you!
1) We don't have legit spelll damage to dps down someone who is bubbled.
2) We can't melee against a rogue effectively.
3) Where is our cloak of shadows to eliminate all movement imparing affects and spell damage?
4) why do rogues get sprint that isn't dazed when struck in combat, while our aspect of cheetah dazes us?
5) Feign death does not work on non-NPC's. This makes this talent virtually useless in pvp except to interrupt a cast.
6) Don't even want to mention the deadzone, the 3 yards in between 5 and 8 yards. That can be deadly! I can't dps or hurt someone in 3 of 1-40 yard range.
7) Our mana drain is too weak and can be dispelled unlike locks and priests.
8) Hunter itemization sucks. Why the hell are you guys making us stack all these stam?
9) Not enough instant shots to account for all the running around I have to do on Void Reaver to compete with locks. Why do Affliction locks get so much advantage in this fight? Please make my aimed shot instant and get rid of that ridiculous autoshot reset timer or atleast give us Presence of Mind spell like mages.
Killerkeeblr Aug 30th 2007 8:52AM
Ha. Shamans are such babies about everything. Seems to me they miss the old days of being the SUPERMAN class. Try playing any of the other classes that got a huge nerf stick. I play a hunter, shadow priest, and a rogue. And as far as "5)...as well a way to chase down fleeing opponents." That is a problem that most classes can have, and you have to deal with the fact that some people WILL get away if they REALLY want to. Don't cry about it when you don't pvp the correct way to begin with. Keep your opponent near you with abilities and totems that are GIVEN to you for a reason :) Shamans have many ways of keeping you from fleeing...
Queuetip Aug 29th 2007 11:40AM
Agreed. You can't ask for everything. Here are the ones I feel are possibilities
3) Totems immobility and short range need to be buffed.
Maybe the self buff ones like windfury and air, but not ones that affect enemies like grounding. I already lose half of my frostbolts to totems halfway across the map.
5) Enhancement shaman lack significant ranged combat abilities as well a way to chase down fleeing opponents.
Do they get frostshock? If not then I can understand this.
9) Off-spec Shaman itemization is poor in Karazhan and beyond.
Never really paid attention, but I don't see very much mail spell dmg gear.
12) Shamans need more control over their fire-and-forget Totems to direct them at a specific target or to stop them from breaking cc.
Agree. I feel that all summoned abilities and pets you should be able to control (Treants, Water elemental the other 50% of the time, Totems, Barov family :) )
Freehugz Aug 29th 2007 11:44AM
So he's asking for totems that follow him around everywhere, CC immunity, a bubble and survivability in a dps spec?
robodex Aug 29th 2007 11:47AM
agree with #3. 90% of these times it's a class bitching about not being overpowered.
Only time these threads have been legitimate are when it's things like the classic 360 degree cleaves that would gib rogues. REAL issues with the game. The only legit issue I can see with this post is the GCD on totems, and even then, it should be shortened and not removed completely.
Zor Aug 29th 2007 11:49AM
also to note...the easiest to level.
both of you.
try a holy priest solo grind....or a prot warrior
w/o help of people....and or going absent on your team
try getting an elite flying mount.
wanna farm...build one of these, wanna raid build a raider
Jim A Aug 29th 2007 12:12PM
I'd say that it's more along the lines of... Shaman are at a disadvantage as a class because o reasons X, Y, and Z. Here are the PERCIEVED problems with this class. These need to be looked at, and compaired with how WOW has evolved since it's launch.
mcm Aug 29th 2007 12:00PM
Some valid points, but few of them are top-tier whining:
5) Enhancement shaman lack significant ranged combat abilities as well a way to chase down fleeing opponents.
Enhancement shamans lose FrostShock? Can no longer drop a slowing-totem? Lose all their distance-damage spells? Give me a large break! Of all the melee classes, enhancement shamans have the BEST ranged combat abilities, far better than warrs, rogues, pallies, or cat-form druids.
7) Shaman have issues handling an assist train. (When someone gets zerged by multiple opponents).
Other than mages and fear-dot warlocks (and maybe protection-spec pallies), what class doesn't have issues handling an assist train? It SHOULD be difficult if you grab 3 equal-level enemies at once!
11) Windfury and Stormstrike demand the shaman using the slowest weapon for maximum dps gain, but that concept is counter to the weapon normalization introduced in patch 1.8.
What a shame, you mean some of your talents work best with a slow weapon? My heart bleeds for you; you're the only class with that problem. Except for every other melee class: warrs (MS, WW, Flurry, and even Slam), rogues (SS, BS), and pallies (pretty much all retribution talents).
yotix Aug 29th 2007 12:01PM
Strange.
PvP-experienced Shamans keep blowing my priest and WL to pieces literally before I can even target them;
Shamans keep killing my Warrior using those damn slow-down-totems and spells ...
So I started reading this thread thinking "Jeez, another stupid whine by someone who thinks 'game balance' means they should be the only person who can kill anything without ever dying."
Seems I was right:
1 Spec affects survivability. What else is new?
2 Some classes are better at grinding. Erm. News?
3 Totems were designed to have short range. So?
4 "Change their playstyle"? You mean warriors no longer use weapons, and mages don't cast anymore? So the shaman is still a totem-setting melee caster in BC ... erm, what is the point of the complaint?
5 Warriors, rogues, paladins don't have significant ranged combat. Shamans have powerful spells but keep crying about them?
6 If your DPS is very high, you may pull aggro off the tank. Erm. It has been like that since, like, day one of the beta. If you can't keep track of your Threadmeter, it's your own bloody fault, not that of the Shaman class.
7 Who doesn't?
(...etc. )
jasper Aug 29th 2007 12:02PM
I don't think fire and forget totems are legit.
They are area affect. I mean seriously, it's akin to paladin tanks asking their consecrate to avoid breaking sheep or other CC. Or how about a mages blizzard smartly avoiding a shackle? Come on! it's an Area affect - you don't get to map out the locations and ask for no GCD. Perhaps if you want to, you should really have longer GCD.
Totem farms are the most impossible locations to penetrate for a group. So we have to use a strategy to overcome that, which is to pull you out of your defensive location. It's a game of chess. Don't make it like a couple of elephants butting heads to no end.
Mike Aug 29th 2007 12:02PM
For those of you who think frost shock is a decent enemy-chasing spell in PvP, you've probably never played a pvp shaman before. Frost shock is dispellable and it only takes the enemy one hamstring/stun/fear to get ahead of you.
And tremor totem? With my experiences in arena it only works half the time (and often after 3-5 seconds)
Scruffy Aug 29th 2007 12:04PM
Hmm...
As a shadow priest, I'll take #2 (no pushback resistence for Mind Flay), #6 (temporary, and very weak really, threat reduction doesn't count), and #7 (Fear? nerfed to hell and easily trinketed out of leaving only feedback if I'm getting zerged by casters).
Troy Aug 29th 2007 12:49PM
Wow. I'm an elemental shaman and this just reads like whining to me. Here, I'll reduce his list to the *genuine* issues to look at:
1) Totem system needs update
2) Elemental & Enhance role in groups (no CC is a huge reason to skip us over for mage/rogue/hunter/warlock... even druid)
3) Threat management
These are the only real issues in that post. Everything else is a lot of whining. And this is coming from a shaman. Fo' serious.
bearskunk Aug 29th 2007 12:10PM
drop windfury for frostbrand, now you can slow down your opponents so they dont get away easily. I guess it's called "making compromises". Drop some of your damage in order to prevent someone from running away.
To be honest I don't understand the shaman whining in most cases. The only issues I have with the class is the time it takes to put down totems and that there is no talent to increase their survivability.
An aggro dump would be nice, but in most cases needing one is merely a sign that someone doesn't play well. Shouldn't pull aggro in the first place.
Also don't see why each class should have a crowd control skill.
Krang Aug 29th 2007 12:15PM
1) Fair enough, but don't expect huge changes, every class has a better survivability spec.
2) Agreed.
3) Agreed.
4) Bullshit, no class significantly changed their playstyle, this is an absurdly biased statement.
5) Welcome to melee dps? You do still have frostshock.
6) Agreed.
7) Somewhat agreed.. but so do: warlocks priests hunters and druids.
8) CC is powerful against every class, a buff in shsman totems might address this though, and they have stated shaman will be getting CC in the future. Don't expect to be able to nuke heal melee and anti-CC.
9) Agreed.
10) Agreed.
11) Good luck with this one, nothing will change here, the choice is your over which weapon to use, blizzard isn't going to alter basic game mechanics that affect every class because shamans want 50 more dps.
12) Agreed, I'd love to see some big changes/improvements to totems in pvp.
13) Boo-hoo, welcome to being a caster, every caster has to spend time casting non-offensive spells that use up the GCD, it's up to you to manage your time and make the best choice based on the options you have. Totems will not come off the GCD.
Daedahl Aug 29th 2007 12:18PM
I'm sick of people who don't play the class at 70 saying those with concerns are just whining. Everything on that list has a bit of truth to it. I play a level 70 shammy, how many of you do? That said a lot of it is not entirely necessary or needs very little change. A skillful player can overcome most of his classes shortcomings, but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. If shamans were fine they wouldn't be the least played class in the game.
And by the way, Frost Shock is still the only snare with diminishing returns, so don't say that it is a good way to keep the enemy in range. Know something about the class before you say the people are QQing.
Balasan Aug 29th 2007 12:19PM
The best legitimate complain that I can see is that shaman have no aggro reduction without sacrificing their DPS.
Frost mages can go all out and Ice block if they pull aggro.
Rogues can go all out and vanish if they get aggro.
Huntards can go all out DPS and just click one button every 30 seconds to reset aggro.
Warlocks can go all out, although they are slightly more limited due to their only 50% aggro reduction of soulshatter.
So you're saying shaman need to cut down on their DPS to stay alive? A bit unfair, no? Considering they sacrificed their ability to heal any better than a rogue with a bandage, they should get equal capabilities as a DPS class without the drawbacks.
ScruffyPhal Aug 29th 2007 12:26PM
Seriously, what's up with people trolling on Shaman who find some issues with their play experience? You'd think that Rogues, Warlocks, Warriors, Druids, Priests, Paladins, Mages and Hunters have never piped up once with their share of the QQ from this post's response.
The original post contains a list of ISSUES Shaman players have experienced. It is NOT a demand to have all of these fixed at once and become the ultimate OP machine. I think most Shaman players would settle for some attention to maybe 3 or 4 items on that list (the ones that affect them most in their playstyle) if only because it shows Blizz is prepared to give us some love.
The sheer fact that there are so many issues (can you think of another class that can come up with quite so many legitimate gripes) shows that Shaman need to have some attention if they are to remain a useful and desirable class to play. I think that's something that ALL players should want, not just those that play the class.
@jasper
"The trend I see about all these comments regarding "issues" with class is that everybody wants to eliminate weaknesses. The slippery slope logic in that is pretty ridiculous."
The 'slippery slope' is actually a classic example of a poor argument that lacks a logical basis. You follow up by giving a fine example of this flawed method. You seem to argue that if Shaman had some buffs - and had some weaknesses removed - then Blizzard would have to buff EVERYONE out of all recognition? Is there any logic in that?
The trolling on WoW Insider has gotten really bad lately. Would you all please make your way back to the official forums where you belong?