Encrypted Text: A plea for proper poisons
One of the many things that I remember from raiding pre-Burning Crusade was how often many Rogues would lament the lack of real use for poisons. As such, a whole generation of PvE Rogues let their Poisons get dusty, and judging from some of the things I've seen in pick-up groups since then, I can only wonder if there is a true appreciaton for the art of poisons. (There again, I could just happen to be getting continually unlucky in PUGs and always seem to luck into the Rogues who just don't know better.) Now this isn't to say all elder Rogues abandoned their poisons altogether, nor that all new Rogues don't understand them. This is instead an open letter to those Rogues who simply haven't messed with them enough to know the difference between an instant poison and a hole in the ground, and who continually use caster poisons on melee targets. It is for those folks that I'm writing this week's column. (Well okay, and for anyone curious about poisons in general...)
The basic Rogue poisons last for 30 minutes and stack in piles of 20 in your inventory. They do not stack with other weapon effects like sharpening stones, Windfury totem, or oils made from Alchemy or Enchanting though. And no, Rogues shouldn't even be considering using any Enchanting oils in the first place, but after some of the shenanigans I've seen lately in PUGs, I wanted to be clear on that. (By way of example, I had the honor of running with a Rogue who stood in the back and shot everything with his bow as opposed to closing to melee.)
I generally tend to keep what I call "meat in mind" -- if the mob you are facing would be made of meat if they were real, then you're probably going to be able to poison it. If it's something else -- say, a rock elemental -- you're probably better off hoping for a Windfury proc, or reaching for a sharpening stone. Trial and error will teach you which will and won't work, and so long as you're ready and able to switch to another option before the next pull, most groups won't mind your experimenting. (Don't hold your group up playing swap the poison, though!)
A Rogue's bevy of poisons range the gamut from adding lots of sweet, sweet damage, to slowing your opponent as s/he runs in fear from you. That said, here are a few basic notes on what each poison does, levels, and some immediate notes that spring to my mind.
- Instant Poison - As the name implies, an instant-cast poison that does a certain amount of damage, depending on the rank. One of the first poisons in your repertoire, this is a solid favorite of many Rogues, and can work in the majority of situations. You get this starting at level 20, and gain ranks from there at 28, 36, 44, 52, 60, and the last (currently) at level 68. I generally carry two stacks of this around, because I tear through it in nothing flat.
- Crippling Poison - This is the other basic poison a new Rogue will get. It adds a slowing snare type effect on a mob for 12 seconds. The first rank at level 20 slows them 50% when it lands (30% chance, 40% with the poison talent) and will slow them 70% at level 50 when you get your second and final rank. This is lovely when you're heading into a situation where you're going to get a lot of social mobs that like to run and get friends. Also fairly nifty in PvP, if only to make folks waste reagents/mana/time getting rid of it. :)
- Mind-Numbing Poison - This does to casters what lack of sleep and too much caffeine does to any gamer who has ever gotten a game at a midnight release party -- brainfry! In essence, it causes casters' spell-cast time to increase by 40% at 24, 50% at 38, and 60% at 52 over 10 seconds. Most of the time this will not work on bosses (Pathaleon in Mechanar being an exception, for example) but this can be quite handy in PvP, or in cases where you're going to have to mow through a bunch of nasty casters to get to your target.
- Deadly Poison - A wonderful DOT that stacks up to 5 times, which you'll pick up starting at level 30. Now, when you pick up Shiv at level 70 and combine it with Envenom (levels 62 and 69) Deadly on your off-hand weapon can create some sexy numbers. It's also great for annoying other Rogues in PvP because stealth/vanish is worthless when you're DOTted up. However I must stress one thing about Deadly that I've seen time and time again... Unless you're 100% sure that your blades/maces/fists of fury aren't going to go flying and smack the wrong thing, please don't use this poison in groups where you're going to be dealing with a lot of crowd control -- especially in close quarters. All it takes is one auto-attack switch to the CCd target, an unintentional proc, and suddenly you've got an angry mob and an angry CCer telling you to tank it since you "spanked it." (Bonus Suck Points if that angry CCer also happens to be your healer.)
- Wound Poison - This reduces the healing that can be done to a target as well as being a marginal damage poison that you get at level 32. Sure, it doesn't sound like much, but when used in PvP, this can be truly unpleasant. Pile it up on the flag carrier and watch him fall over despite your opponent's best efforts! When you add in that it stacks up to 5 times, it can get downright nasty.
- Anesthetic Poison - Available at level 68, this is by and far my favorite poison for instancing, hands down. It's also the "newest" poison for Rogues, as it was introduced with Burning Crusade. While it doesn't do the highest damage, the fact that it causes no additional threat makes it a wonderful choice for raiding and instancing. Sure, it's only a 20% chance (30% with talents) to land, but with Shiv, you can certainly drive your poisoned point home without fear of the same threat you'd see off-handing Deadly.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Tips, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Ian Fay Aug 30th 2007 6:44AM
Wound poison doesn't cause a DOT. It does a little less damage than instant poison, instantly. The only thing that stacks is the reduced healing effect.
Jonas Aug 30th 2007 6:45AM
This is one of the most stupid posts on this website ever. Anastethic poison is worthless, please don't try to get people to start using it. Windfury > MH poison any day, for every fight. No exceptions. Also, even if specced for envenom, you would do more damage if you just let the deadly poisons tick and use evisc instead (unless the target has the same mitigation as a full epic prot warrior or something, but no raid targets has that).
Instant poison is ofc better than wound poison in very short fights (thrash clears in 5-mans f.ex.).
Best damage in a raid: WF MH, deadly OH. Only envenom when the mob is about to die in under 10 seconds, otherwise just leave the deadly stack ticking and rupture instead (or even evisc, yes, envenom is that crappy).
Jemmet Aug 30th 2007 6:46AM
and who continually use caster poisons on melee targets
Maybe because the rogue just offed a caster-mob?
I wonder if there is any rogue at all who would add poisons to a stack of weapons and starts swapping them in-fight with a cluster of different mobs.
However I must stress one thing about Deadly that I've seen time and time again... Unless you're 100% sure that your blades/maces/fists of fury aren't going to go flying and smack the wrong thing, please don't use this poison in groups where you're going to be dealing with a lot of crowd control -- especially in close quarters.
Please keep your precious sheep/shackled out of melee range to start with. Its a barbrawl upclose. It's ugly, a tasty sheep will get hit when smack in the middle of a fisticuff.
A good sapped mob is outside the fight, so kindly keep yer sheep there too.
And IF a mob is dotted (as shown by the icon) stop trying to re-sheep it. Throwing a lump of ice on it helps more.
My personal favourite is a sharpy stone on the MH and a Deadly Poison on the off-hand.
Sometimes a cripple for the odd mob (adds at Moroes).
I'm pretty disgusted with Eviscarate at lvl70 as a finisher (hello? I have SS's doing more damage then a 5cp evis!!), but boy, does Envenom rocks (ignoring a mob's armour is pretty :)
I kinda hoped there would be more flavours in poison, coupled with rare reagents to balance things out. See rogue-only quests at Ravenhold, thats a lovely garden there, could be a hub for all kinds of interesting poison-quests:
- Rust-dust for a dot for mechanical mobs (lowers speed/armour) (blacksmith made)
- Holy shroom to slap undeads. (alchemy made)
- Acid's to dot mechs/elementals/heavy plate (and for bonus, afflicts one's wielded weapons too!)
- Mind-waffle, to turn a hostile mob friendly. (enchanter made)
- dr Boom's Potent Cocktail (needs 5 stacks before doing any damage, but then its BOOM time! ;)(goblin-engineer made)
- World-Shattering Micro-cogs (makes a mob (and his stats) smaller with each stack (gnome-enginering, odd change it makes the mob bigger!
Jonas Aug 30th 2007 6:50AM
And oh yes, poisons >(>>>>>>>>) sharpening stones for damage. Only time you should use a sharpening stone on your OH is on stuff that's poison immune (and WF on MH ofc).
John Aug 30th 2007 7:59AM
jonas, shut up. clearly some of this post is about pve and grinding and solo play - where you're not going to have windfury. yes, in a raid/party where you have access to it, wf probably > poisons, but you dont always have totems around.
i usually use crippling poison when soloing. i like to not worry about running mobs. i would like to see more fun, interesting poisons though. some fun stuff to play with.
YPEELS40 Aug 30th 2007 8:04AM
Anastethic poison is great for a combat rogue when you dont have windfury for main hand.. it procs alot more than instant poison
Cluckyx Aug 30th 2007 2:07PM
When soloing pre-crippling poisons it was a nightmare. Especially when you're taking on a lot of runners, like a cramped cave full of Venture Co. Cowards and such. I'd end up fighting constantly and not getting a break. I also find that having Deadly poison on my main and Instant poison on my off hand means that over a long fight, I can stack the 5 deadlies, and have the instant add a few points of pwn on the side as I go.
Poisons make my rogue when soloing, I don't see what all the comotion is.
Krystalle Voecks Aug 30th 2007 8:25AM
@ Ian - Oops! That's what I get for posting from a McDonalds at 5 in the morning while I'm on the road. Bad me. No breakfast biscuit.
As for the rest, John has it -- this is meant as an overall look at poisons, not purely group-only situations. Each group's dynamic will be different (for example, I've never raided with a Paladin) and will require the Rogue to look at the overall picture. (All variants and conditions possible would be an enormous post!)
Beyond that I've got my coffee, the squall has mostly passed, and it's time to hit the road again. :)
Rich Aug 30th 2007 8:34AM
Yes you can get bigger numbers with Envenom, but for sustained dps it blows. I also have to disagree that Anesthetic poison is useful. I wouldn't ever use it.
bwest0526 Aug 30th 2007 9:07AM
LOL don't worry bout the 'tards like Jonas, Krystalle, keep driving to Hotlanta and keep up the good work. Found a few things I didn't know about posions today, thank you for the post!
Peter Ellis Aug 30th 2007 3:25PM
Anaesthetic poison is useful if you're threat-capped. As a rogue that's very rare, but can happen in multi-mob pulls in 5 man instances.
Tinwhisker Aug 30th 2007 9:09AM
As a sword rogue, for boss fights where I don't have access to WF, I use Deadly on my MH and Instant/Anesthetic on my OH.
Yes, putting deadly on my OH would build the stacks faster but after that I'm just wasting procs to refresh it. Keeping SnD up means that my MH can easily keep 5 stacks of Deadly flowing on the target and my OH is free to proc oodles of instant poisons (Anesthetic for those really sensitive fights).
Doomilias Aug 30th 2007 9:49AM
WTF can't we get a poison bag pls?! 20 slot bag for poisons and powders.
and oh, WF proc is wonderful, but you need two things. first, you need a shammy in your party. second, you need a shammy in your party who is going to use windfury totem. that is, maybe you have a ferlol drood and a hunter who wants the grace of air totem...or maybe the shammy would rather have wrath of air totem for himself...
Horixon Aug 30th 2007 9:56AM
@Jonas - First, with Shamans being one of the LEAST played toons, a lot of us hardly ever get to raid/group with them. So your whole argument about WF goes right out the window.
Second, Krystalle wasn't trying to convince people to use Anesthetic Poison. It was just a nice overview of all of the poisons and what benefits they have.
Third, You need to Lrn2NotBeADilhole. A lot of these column writers have to put up with jerks like you on a regular basis. You aren't the one having to come up with fresh content for new columns regularly, so just keep your piehole shut, Ace.
@Krystalle - Great column as always. Keep up the good work.
Keith Aug 30th 2007 10:07AM
Anasthetic Poison is basically interchangable with instant poison - I use it on fights where I end up riding the aggro line really closely.
In general, I use instant for trash, deadly for bosses, and the others are situational.
John Aug 30th 2007 10:32AM
i wouldn't want a poison bag. why get a 20-slot poison bag you can ONLY put poisons in, instead of a 14-20 slot bag you can put ANYTHING in? besides the cost, and at lower levels, a 12-14 slot bag is easy to come by, and you don't need 20 stacks of 20 poisons - that would be 200 hours of play, and i can't imagine you couldn't get somewhere to sell your vendor trash every 200 hours and clean out your bags.
all those bags (soul shard, herbal, mining, etc.) are a waste, especially if you are funding your alt with a 70 main, and even if you're not, they become obsolete quickly.
Richard Aug 30th 2007 10:38AM
Krystalle:
There are LOTS of boss encounters where a Rogue really needs to choose their poisons carefully:
examples:
The adds with Moroes are vulnerable to Crippling. That extra time helps.
Terestian Illhoof is vulnerable to Wound Poison.
There are tons of bosses out there that you can stack Deadly onto... Morogrim Tidewalker, for example.
And during the Fathom-Lord Karathress encounter, there should ALWAYS be a Rogue on Caribdis keeping Mind Numbing up to help with interrupting the heals.
A rogue who carries every poison (even if used rarely) and knows exactly where and when to use them is very useful.
Hank Aug 30th 2007 10:49AM
My main is a rogue, and it is best to learn what poisons do what before entering an instance. Wound Poison is a necessity in Botanica. If I know the tank's aggro ability, I will use instant/deadly, and switch to deadly/wound when the situation warrants. Nothing like using shiv to instantly reduce healing.
If I don't know the tank, or if the tank is a pally (I always seem to steal aggro from a pally, no matter how much I feint) I use anestetic/deadly, and situationally, deadly/wound.
PvP is always cripple/wound. I've found that mind-numbing is not nearly as effective on mobs or other players above lvl 60.
And when I run with a shammy, I'll let you know if windfury does anything.
RSH Aug 30th 2007 10:56AM
Also worth noting: Wound Poison is usable on Grandmaster Vorpil in Shadow Labyrinth, and will cut down on the amount of healing his Voidwalkers do. Ideally that shouldn't be happening, but not every group is perfect (especially not every pickup group), and if one or two slip through, Wound Poison is a godsend.
Eyegore Aug 30th 2007 10:58AM
lol @ anyone claiming anesthetic poison is useless, way to announce to the world you suck so had you are never threat capped. Truly well played sir.