The Care and Feeding of Warriors: The Furious Ones

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more with The Care and Feeding of Warriors, or close the wall up with the dead of the other faction. We hate those guys! Matthew Rossi plays warriors of several races, which often leads to the cognitive dissonance of a night elf trying to take Stormpike Graveyard. It seems when the blast of war blows in his ears he cannot tell a tauren from a draenei.
The problem with playing a warrior, and also one of the most satisifying aspects of the class, is that it can do three things exceedingly well. We can PvP. Some will say we can PvP too well, of course, but then again everyone thinks everyone else is overpowered in PvP... witness how Warlocks think fear has been nerfed to hell while everyone else thinks fear is overpowered. Except priests, who think they're the ones who get nerfed when locks pwn everyone. (I still remember when warriors got nerfed over fear. Ah, everyone was surprised in AQ20 when the warriors couldn't fear everyone anymore.) We can tank. Whatever you think about other tanks and their advantages, it cannot be denied that the single best tank for a boss fight is a warrior and that a protection specced warrior can tank any instance in the game hands down. We have the best itemization for tanking, we have some of the best mitigation on our gear and some of the best talents for getting and keeping aggro and some of the best moves for pushing our defense and heading for uncrushability. And we can DPS, of course. With the right gear and spec, a warrior is capable of rather impressive damage and can be entrusted with roles like solo killing all of the adds in Black Morass. In fact, yesterday I respecced from protection to fury/arms just so that I could help some guildies get their Karazan keys in three back to back to back Black Morass runs. Some nice stuff finally dropped, too.
But that's also the rub for the warrior. Are we powerful? Yes, we're powerful, in our limited ways. Are we flexible? After a fashion we're flexible. But the key to our power and flexibility lies outside our gear and in the hands of something else. We have to respec to unlock our flexibility. You cannot, as a warrior, switch from tanking gear to DPS gear if you're specced full protection and expect to really do any significant damage. You simply won't have the tools you need to increase your AP, throw out instants and otherwise become a whirling wall of steel that hews your enemies down. A prot spec warrior is a tank, plain and simple, and one without much of a cannon on board. A fury specced warrior is a mobile gun, all damage and not much survivability against a boss or multiple elites. Arms is a baseline, a light tank with a decent burst weapon. You have to play with the talents if you're going to get the most out of your warrior, and that costs. I won't lie to you, if you want to go between dedicated tanking and PvPing, you may have to respec twice a week, going prot for your guild runs and going arms/fury for Arena and BG's. And if you're like me, and are in a guild where there's another excellent warrior who is more geared for tanking? (Hi Vish!) A guild where there's a feral druid who also wants in on the tanking? (Hi Vash!)
Well, then sometimes you're going to be asked to come along on an instance run as pure DPS. Sometimes people will ask you to burn down the adds in Black Morass, or to help with offtanking and DPS in Shattered Halls, or to come along on a Slabs run because there's five people on and you're one of them. And that means respeccing fury, my friends. Say hello to the talent trainer. Bring 50 gold.
So let's talk about fury DPS. It's conditional on spec, of course. I'm still not comfortable with my default fury spec, it's bursty as hell. I sometimes spec 31 arms/ 30 fury or 41 arms/ 20 fury to try and PvP and DPS in one spec, but lately I'm trying out a more heavily fury oriented spec for jobs like slaughtering dragonkin and whelps in BM and unleashing devastation on the six pulls in Slabs. If you look at the spec you can see where I accidentally spent a point in protection on Imp Bloodrage. Hey, it's fifty gold to respec, I'll live with it, it's not the worst talent in the universe. I really considered going for fury 2h dps with a slam build, and if I do any serious raiding in Kara or Gruul with this build I will definitely rethink it, but for now my main DPS seems to be towards a dual wield model. (This changes from run to run, and sometimes I can't sing the praises of 2h fury enough.) I'm sure warriors with more experience in raid DPS in the expansion can show you where my build sucks, besides that one point in protection. But it works for me.
Fury started off when the game went live as the red headed stepchild of the warrior trees. No one liked it, no one wanted to spec in it. It gained viability with the changes to Bloodthirst and the synergy between Enrage and Flurry. Making BT an instant attack based on AP freed it from being compared to the big Arms talent, Mortal Strike, and the two passive abilities of the tree (no one 'pops' enrage, it comes up when you are crit, while flurry procs when you crit someone else) moved to center stage. A fury warrior found himself hoping he'd get crit and could crit in return to help jack up his attack speed and damage, some achieving some truly astounding levels of damage. (So much so that the abilities have been nerfed several times and yet are still good.) Right now, with items like the Dragonspine Trophy and the Abacus of Violent Odds in game a warrior can maximize his flurry damage even more with the addition of the haste mechanic.
I said before that fury DPS is conditional on spec, but it's even more conditional on gear. In fact, fury as a PvE dps spec may be even more dependent on gear than even main tanking is. You need strength for attack power. You need stamina to stay up and deliver the damage. You need to minimize the chance of missing when dual wielding, so you need +hit. (This is less important if you're using a slam build with a big 2h.) And finally, you need to crit, as often as you can, to proc flurry and increase your attack speed. You'll also want as much haste rating as you can get. That's not an easy shopping list to satisfy before you start heroics and raiding, and if you're going fury before you fully have the gear for it, you can expect less from the build. Don't believe the hype. Speccing fury does not instantly catapult you to the top of the DPS charts. Precision only gives warriors a +3% chance to hit, and if you're dual wielding you'll need more. How much more? Well, there's a flat 5 percent chance you'll miss and dual wielding adds 19%, that's 24% chance to miss. Missing means no damage, no chance to proc flurry, and for those with enough points spent in fury no chance to trigger Rampage for a healthy dose of AP. If you don't want to miss, you'll need +25% to hit. It takes 15.8 hit rating at level 70 to get 1% to hit, meaning you'll need about 395 hit rating if you don't have precision, and 348 hit rating if you do. That's if you want to minimize misses as much as is possible, of course. And that is not terribly easy to find. A heroic ramparts run will get you this, and the Doomplate set has some hit rating on it, but outside of endgame raiding I think you'll have a hard time finding that much hit rating. If you're both an armorsmith and an engineer you could craft Bulwark of Kings and Furious Gizmatic Goggles, but in general I think you'll be missing some attacks when you start out.
However, as you go further and further towards Black Temple, there is a good amount of +hit on DPS set gear and other drops. So if you're raiding or doing Arenas you can get a decent hit rating. This is the secret to how those guys can do the damage they do - they don't miss as much. The gear is out there... there's a nice crafted set whose plans drop in Black Temple with +hit and haste for the fury warrior. But never think you're going to roll into instances in quest greens and just destroy the damage meters. Fury requires the gear.
Fury is, ultimately, the dedicated PvE DPS tree. Just as a dedicated main tank is geared and specced to optimize his ability to tank, a warrior who wants to deal out damage needs to dedicate himself to it if he wants to excel. Now, with melee haste, sufficient hit and crit, the right mix of strength and stam and experience a warrior can be a DPS monster, since rage lends itself very nicely to long fights and we have Execute when the bosses dip below 20% health. I do very nice damage even in my blues with my minimal hit rating, and as I gear up for it I expect to see more damage, but I'm not inclined nor do I really have the luxury to really dedicate myself to it: I'm asked to perform too many other roles. A fury DPS warrior is just as specialized and dedicated as a main tank, especially if he or she's a good one. She may well be near the top of the DPS charts, but to get there, she had to specialize to a great extent. You will not see this dedicated a player tanking very much, as the idea that they will have the DKP to take tanking gear until after everyone else has it is laughable (there are always exceptions, mind you) and trying to tank in gear without defense or block is, well, painful.
Heck, I didn't even mention aggro, did I? Well, Battle and Berserker stance both have a small aggro reduction built in. And there are a few pieces of gear a warrior can get with threat reduction, and there are some cloaks... and that's about it. Pull agg and you're a smear and the raid can wipe. Blessing of Salvation? Please? Can a warrior get Salv over here? Why are you laughing at me, mister Pally?
I know I'm missing a lot of the nuances of fury... there's just not enough time or room to go into them all. Therefore, I once again turn to you and the comments to help flesh out these bare bones. Once more unto the breach, dear commenters, once more.
Edited to add: Check out this link, posted in the comments by rmcdonough50, for a better overview of threat and +hit for fury warriors. The consensus seems to be that I'm weighting too heavily towards +hit and you really only need enough to ensure that your specials will hit.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Classes, Talents, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
PyroAmos Aug 31st 2007 10:24AM
the main problem with fury is threat. we had a really good fury warrior who raided with us, took the time to really gear himself out, but he could only auto-attack and cleave, and he still pulled threat. If he was able to mana to keep his threat below the tanks before 20%, he still couldn't execute 'til boss @ 5% or so, cause 2 executes and he had threat.
Arg Aug 31st 2007 10:36AM
First off, I'd like to say how much I like seeing an actual coherent discussion on warrior DPS role and spec - it's too often that I hear the "lol respec prot noob" when I say I'm fury. I'm not an expert in the art myself, but I've picked up a few good ideas from trial and erorr and a few great warriors I've had the chance to play with.
On hit rating: It's one of the best boosts to your DPS you can make. However, there shouldn't be a need to push it up into the 300 range - even with BT gear, you sacrifice way too many other stats to reach that level. I forget the exact numbers, but it takes around 86 or so hit rating to have all your yellow abilities land against a boss, dual wield or no. Beyond that, hit rating is extra white damage. Usually the magic number in hit rating is around 200 or so. Between gem sockets, taking some decent stat leather gear, and general +hit gear (Traitor's Noose from heroic Slave Pens is great and fairly easy to get), it shouldn't be too difficult to hit without nerfing your other stats. Beyond that, you want to push your AP and crit. Armor and stamina are nice, but don't worry about them too much. Yes, you are a warrior and can wear plate, but leather often has nice stats.
In regards to spec - usually a pure DPS spec will go 17/44 - just far enough into Arms to get 2/2 Impale, then dump the rest in Fury. Details vary on personal preference, but I'm a fan of Improved Thunderclap for a bit of off-tanking, Improved Execute for that extra power at the end of the fight, and Improved Beserker Rage for that extra bit of rage every 30 seconds.
In regards to the first post on threat: Yes, it's a huge problem. Sometimes you have to just sit back and auto-attack. Sometimes you're going to want to use Cleave instead of Heroic Strike to reduce the innate threat. However, if you have a good tank who knows how to generate aggro and just watch your threat meter closely, it shouldn't be a terrible problem. Generally, in a raiding guild, if you're geared enough to shoot to the top of the aggro charts, your tank better be geared and skilled enough to hold that top spot.
PyroAmos Aug 31st 2007 10:52AM
BTW wheres priest topic, last one was posed on the 12th, theres been 4 warrior ones since the 10th :| i'll go write a priest macro topic for you if you want, all you have to do is copy/paste it, gimmie ur e-mail priest-writer :|
aden_nak Aug 31st 2007 10:53AM
Cleave has a 1.8 threat modifier, if I remember correctly. So if he was Cleaving, he was causing way more threat than he had to be. He'd have been better off using Heroic Strikes (though to be fair, I didn't know about the Cleave modifier until recently).
Matthew Rossi Aug 31st 2007 10:55AM
@3 -
This is the warrior column. I don't write the priest column, so I have no information for you on that topic.
Matthew Rossi Aug 31st 2007 10:57AM
@4 -
According to http://www.wowwiki.com/Threat, Cleave's threat is still lower than Heroic Strike.
rmcdonough50 Aug 31st 2007 11:41AM
Hit rating in general is a good stat for fury warriors, but it's a myth that you need to stack it at the expense of other stats. Arg is correct, you only MUST stack hit rating until you have enough that your yellow attacks will not miss against a boss. That number is around 95 and is very easy to attain at 70. It is also a myth that increasing your hit rating will cause you to crit more and be able to keep Flurry and Rampage up easier. Crits and misses occupy two seperate spaces on the attack table, and reducing your chance to miss via hit rating will only increase your normal hits, not your crits. You will eventually get 200+ hit rating as you progress via normal gear upgrades, but you shouldn't necessarily stack it via gems or use inferior gear just becuase it has +hit on it.
Here's one of the best fury guides I've found to date with more info, including the Heroic Strike v. Cleave debate:
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/theory-articles-guides/32361-dw-fury-guide.html
Dave Aug 31st 2007 11:49AM
If everyone understood what this post was saying, I wouldn't have retired my warrior.
On my server, warriors are good for tanking or MS/Arms build Arena. Nothing else. Try and do almost any runs with a Fury warrior, and people will laugh at you. I gave up after enough tries, since I'm tired of tanking.
People put too much emphasis on a single person being "their" tank. It's like I started to feel obligated to be around for some people otherwise they'd just sit around and do nothing until I was online. I actually started feeling BAD about having a life outside of the game, when people would tell me their raid was canned because I didn't show up to tank it.
So, I quit the game for a while, came back with an Arms/Fury build (the crazy 31/30), tried the Arena and PVP for a while, but found my gear lacking... tried to do heroics as a non-tank and found nothing but resistance every single time. Pretty frustrating stuff! I wish more people were open minded enough to realize that you can have a run with a druid tank and a warrior for DPS. Most people are happy with it the other way around, the druid being kitty DPS and the warrior being the tank, so why not?
Hollywood Ron Aug 31st 2007 11:56AM
I hated having to reroll Prot at 70, but otherwise I was never going to find a group. Now I'm having to learn how to tank as prot.
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Ron
http://flektor-blog.com
Heraclea Aug 31st 2007 12:06PM
I came to tank, but have been going through something of a dry spell in actually having things to do when tanking recently, since I no longer am willing to tank for PuGs. So I re-rolled to a version of the fury/prot build I had levelled up with.
It's a lot more fun to play this way, and there are so many rep grinds and mote grinds in the late game that it surely seems worthwhile to play this way. I still use a lot of tanker gear, and mostly just switch the weapons and trinkets. I'm still in plate, so I'm not a glass cannon by any stretch of the imagination. And I can still tank the 63-66 instances fairly well.
Prot needs help in actually playing the rest of the game outside of instances and raids. If it got that help, I would cheerfully go back.
Dan Aug 31st 2007 12:17PM
prot is, indeed, super shit at anything solo related. you don't take much damage, but kills take about half an hour. it's a right piss take.
Matthew Rossi Aug 31st 2007 12:21PM
In defense of prot, I find when I'm full prot spec the easiest way to solo/grind is to wear my full DPS kit, and equip a sword and board. You can shield slam in any stance, and while the damage baseline won't be as great, when it crits it can still deal out a respectable 800 to 1000 damage... with 26% crit in DPS gear, that's one in four SS crits.
That'll put a hurt on anything.
It's still half as fast as Arms, much less fury, but it's doable if you just can't bring yourself to respec for the grind.
Olympus Aug 31st 2007 12:28PM
No offense dude, but your an ignorant ass about tanking.
The times have changed, warriors arent the single best tanks any more. Prot Paladins can AoE bomb their way thru 5-mans or even Karazhan without CC, and druid tanks offer huge amounts of armor, and health.
Alkahn Aug 31st 2007 1:27PM
Um actually he's not ignorant at all. Being uncrushable as a pali is very difficult which makes tanking increasingly hard as time goes on. The need to stack block rating gimps other pure avoidance stats and makes palis take more damage than warriors.
And druids are covered by the "best itemization" comment - druid tanks are awesome, but can you build a full epic druid tanking set from Karazhan? You can build a full warrior plate tanking set. Zul'aman should address this somewhat, supposedly.
Endgame, prot warriors are still the most common raid tanks. I think some rogues could tank 5-mans at this point; that's not really where the comment was aimed. And there are pulls in Kara that it'd be suicide to try AOE tanking even if the threat gen was there :).
Matthew Aug 31st 2007 1:28PM
The two things I dislike about being a Fury war, specifically being a dual-hander, are:
Incredible miss rates. There simply isn't a lot of +hit gear before you get to Outlands, at least not that I know of, so it's difficult not to whiff on a fifth of your swings.
Rampage. Having to pop a self-buff every thirty seconds is a real hassle and really makes me want to roll arms.
rcdan Aug 31st 2007 1:38PM
@13...stfu you idiot.
superfrank Aug 31st 2007 1:44PM
@13. "No offense dude, but your an ignorant ass about tanking."
a) you haven't mastered basic "grammer" which makes YOU an ignorant ass
b) learn2read, he didn't say whatever you thought he did, he said "Whatever you think about other tanks and their advantages, it cannot be denied that the single best tank for a boss fight is a warrior and that a protection specced warrior can tank any instance in the game hands down."
c) this is the best article yet in the "care and feeding of warriors" series.
d) UR A NUB! stop ruining teh internet
Warrior_Tess Aug 31st 2007 1:54PM
This article and a few comments brings me back to the days when yes, a Fury warrior would get laughed right out of a group and was not socially accepted at 60. It was during that Fury-hating era that a lone duel-weilding warrior turned my opinion on the build. It would take an epic saga to relate the amount of eye-opening he did for everyone on that server, needless to say he was ahead of his time.
It's still true that Fury warriors will get evil looks from other players, but there is more acceptance for the build these days (it helps that the talent tree has been tweaked to make it a more viable build option). We just need to get more non-warriors to read articles like this one and learn to love DPS warriors as much as I love shadow priests.
If you haven't done so, you should try and party with a Fury warrior once in a while. You may be suprised at what you get.
Jason Aug 31st 2007 2:45PM
Hit rating is far more valuable for warriors than a lot of folks are saying. Go get some damage meters, and look at where most of your damage is coming from. I'll give you a hint though, it's not your specials.
MartinC Aug 31st 2007 3:44PM
What class makes the best tank? Ask any healer who he would rather heal in an instance, and you will always get the same answer - a prot spec warrior.
Just as with any class, being a prot spec warrior does not automatically make you the best tank. There is a good deal of skill required, but a well specced, well geared, and well skilled prot spec warrior is still the best.