Why do fist weapons get so little love?
by Matthew Rossi 
Sep 4th 2007 at 1:59PM
I know it's hardly a pressing issue for most folks but I still wonder about it. According to Wowhead there are 69 fist weapons in the game. Thottbot lists the same ones. Meanwhile, there are over 300 one handed maces, over 300 daggers and over 300 one handed swords that Wowhead brings up on a casual search. One handed axes are the next most unloved (if that makes sense) at 167. That's still 100 more axes than fists.
The real issue isn't fists for endgame, or even fists for the old level 60 endgame. You can get nice green fist weapons starting at level 57 and there are nice fist weapons in the instances. But aside from gems like the Claw of Celebras or the Vilerend Silcer, which are still relatively late in the game at the mid 40's, what pickings are there for the lower levels? Looking at the options for a decent green fist weapon when leveling up, you'll basically see that there aren't many. You can get a crafted fist at level 27, then if you're horde you can get a quest fist at around level 52, and there's a green fist or two dropping in BRD and Dire Maul.
Now, I like fists and I'm glad that The Burning Crusade introduced more of them. But can anyone think of why they're so rare? Is it that they tend to be too fast for anyone but a fury warrior, as one person commented about the Vilerend? There are some nice fist weapons waiting in the level 70 instances and raids, why don't we see more of them before that? I'd personally like to see more of them, but I may well be in the minority here. I've tried to get the best fist weapons I could on my shaman and on my warriors, going so far as to take the Mag'har Fury Brand over the Honed Voidaxe, so I must be really into punching things. Is there a particular spec of your favorite class that benefits from fists, or are they always the poor option?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Erica Olson Sep 4th 2007 2:07PM
I think they need to add more rogue daggers before fist weapons. Sorry, but you have more options than a dagger rogue does and their weapon choices stink big time (IMHO).
Douglas Sep 4th 2007 2:14PM
Fist weapons in the early game are unloved because Blizzard developers used to see them as "joke weapons" or as completely secondary to just about everything else. Presumably, they were never intended to be very commonplace or useful, and pre-BC itemization for fist weapons really shows that. Most of those weapons were flat-out bad - the only "good" ones that I can think of were Claw of the Black Dragonflight (which was overshadowed by Chromatically Tempered Sword, drops only 2 bosses later), and the Rank 14 fists (which until the honor system revision where basically unattainable for most players).
Baluki Sep 4th 2007 2:19PM
They definitely need to add more fist weapons. I'm still extremely disappointed that there's only ONE fist weapon pattern in Jewelcrafting, and that's one of the reasons why I learned it.
Furthermore, they need to add some caster and healer fist weapons. So far, they're all just for meleers. Fist weapons are a big part of shaman lore (which is what I play, if you don't want to go to my web site and see) and it's disappointing that I have no use for them unless I spec Enhancement.
Here's a bit of a pipe dream: I think Blizz should add a Jewelcrafter-only epic fist weapon that has no stats, but can be fitted with 10-12 gems to make it into the weapon you want it to be.
Epiny Sep 4th 2007 2:22PM
@1
Why does everyone say "No you can't have your upgrade because I want this instead"
I think Blizz is more than capable of adding both if they so desired.
Wussah Sep 4th 2007 2:28PM
I COMPLETELY agree with you here! Fist weapons are awesome to no end. I think that the void-talon and nexus-claw are two of the best looking non-epic models, as far as weapons go, and I'm GLAD they retextured them from ZG. The fact that they go hand-in-hand with each other helps a lot with that. (pun totally intended) But I miss the sweet proc. (better than hourglass of the unraveller!) I know a lot of hunters, shammys, and rogues in my guild who would love to see more fisticuffs going on, especially including myself. I even keep a big bad wolf's paw handy in case my other weapon goes red.
However, and woefully, it's not just the number of fist weapons that bring forth thoughts of neglect. At least half of those fist weapons are nothing more than beefed up brass knuckles. Hardly impressive. Then you have really amazing weapons, like the phoenix set from tempest keep. But they feel unobtainable at this point, what with my guild only starting Gruul's. The gladiator fists... nice stats, but they look horrible. I don't even want to waste the points on them, I'll feel like I'm shield bashing whatever into oblivion.
I really hope someone at blizz is reading wowinsider today and reads this article. Maybe a light bulb will go off and we'll see at least one good fist in all those new dungeons. And a lot more in that expansion everyone keeps talking about.
p3ngu11 Sep 4th 2007 2:29PM
are you discounting weapons for casters in the dagger/mace/sword count? those account for a lot too.
Jericon Sep 4th 2007 2:42PM
My rogue used to be fist specced. I had the Stormreaver Warblades and Reflex Blades from Tempest Keep. They have the advantage of a sword specced rogue with higher Damage ranges than daggers, yet they have the benefit of dagger combat spec with the 5% crit chance. There are a number of talents in the combat tree that increase crit damage. When I had my fist weapons I was on the top of the damage meters... until raiding really got in full force. Kara only has one fist drop from the BBW and the other Epic fist that is somewhat achievable is from Heroic SH. After that there is little to nothing available.
I think that Blizz needs to give Fist weapons more endgame love. I'm not too concerned about the leveling game. I'd love to see an epic Fist weapon in the blacksmithing tree similar to the Dragonmaw mace and Fireguard sword. Or even something like that in the JC tree. Fist weapons are viable end game weapons, if Blizz puts them out there.
marnok Sep 4th 2007 2:43PM
It really is a shame. fist weapons are seriously awesome. After doing side by side comparisons using recap to grab damage over time, I showed that a Demonblood Eviscerator (blue item) out damaged the epic Vindicator's Brand despite having 10 less listed dps on the item.
All of this is simply due to fist spec's 5% extra crit being worth more at the end of the day than the extra attack chance from swords.
The tricky part is of course getting yourself one of the great ones. A bladefist is tricky to get from heroic SH, and the Big Bad Wolf Paw is a tough one to get too (yet to see it drop after 7 BigBadWolf kills).
More fist weapons would be nice to have around, especially seeing how well they outpace swords in dps. Of course, that could be exactly why they are rare in the first place.
Heraclea Sep 4th 2007 2:58PM
I went through a spate of actually using fist weapons recently on my Fury warrior. Then again, I'm on a quixotic quest to max out skill at every weapon I can use in the game, including odd lots like staffs.
The ones I had were Outland greens, and rather slow compared to the weapons I actually use.
Wasyl Sep 4th 2007 3:01PM
"It really is a shame. fist weapons are seriously awesome. After doing side by side comparisons using recap to grab damage over time, I showed that a Demonblood Eviscerator (blue item) out damaged the epic Vindicator's Brand despite having 10 less listed dps on the item.
All of this is simply due to fist spec's 5% extra crit being worth more at the end of the day than the extra attack chance from swords."
Actually sword spec is better than fist spec, I don't know how you came to this conclusion. Fist will give you a flat 5% chance to do double damage on an attack, while sword is 5% chance to get another swing, which can crit to add even more damage, plus offhand procs give you mainhand swings.
There's a hybrid spec that utilizes a fist mainhand for the extra crit, and a sword offhand to proc extra mainhand swings. It works pretty well, it keeps up with sword spec and in theory scales better. The only thing holding it back is *drumroll* lack of fist itemization after The Eye!
Benor Sep 4th 2007 3:08PM
I'd love to see more fist weapons, especially for shamans. There's a visceral satisfaction to beating someone down with your fists, even if you do have some nasty claws/knuckles on while you're doing it.
Hollywood Ron Sep 4th 2007 3:11PM
I love the Fury Brand. It's such an awesome fist that even after respeccing to prot I've kept it around, because you can't be disarmed.
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Ron
http://flektor-blog.com
PapaSmurph Sep 4th 2007 8:10PM
I know hunters aren't supposed to melee, but there's just something satisfying about beating the tar out of something with your fist weapons because your pet lost aggro!
uhit Sep 4th 2007 3:58PM
As a rogue, I think to make fist weapons viable, they should enable backstab, ambush etc. for fist weapons. Personally I would use them more often.
Guttermouth Sep 4th 2007 4:14PM
Allow Mutilate to be used with Fist Weapons as well as Daggers and they will see more love.
Narissa of Eldre'Thalas Sep 4th 2007 4:20PM
@13 there is nothing like a survival hunter, teamed with thier fav pet, I can say from experience.
Having checked the DPS the Vilrend Silcer and Claw of Celebras pre ZG are a decent itemization up until early 50's. Their short use but the AS make up for it.
Bliz should increase the itemization of the claws purely because there is a talent spec on it. Rogues if they had better itemization would love em, and hell add shamans and hunters to the list. The best claws I have seen when full set is the ones that are built for hunters.
Nothing like turning into a Tiger to make your day right 8).
Anon Sep 4th 2007 4:32PM
Actually, what annoys me is that typically, fist weapons come in sets, one for each fist. Obviously...however, when fist weapons are given to a class that cannot dual wield, like the druid, there are problems.
Either we need to drop fist weaps for druids, and get something else, or make fist weapons always dual wieldable...or something silly like that.
Brian Sep 4th 2007 4:37PM
I like fist weapons. Especially the 'bear paw' ones. I think it's odd that the Druid trainer in Darnassus has a fist weapon when they are so rare. Having said that the only fist weapon vendor I know is in Darnassus.
I would also draw attention to the WC III orc shamans who wore animal head masks and used fist weapons. That's what I want for my shaman Like the frostwolf costumes but with white paws too. I think it's annoying that Shamans have to take talents to use 2 handed weapons and dual wield. I know we may be getting 2H weapons soon but I want to be able to dual wield easier too.
So I would love to see more fist weapons in game and for leather workers to be able to make them from early levels using metal bars and leather as all leather wearers can use fist weapons
Juliah Sep 4th 2007 5:01PM
I agree. Bring on the fist weapons! I'd love for my shaman to be able to tear stuff up with them!
Zechleton Sep 4th 2007 5:36PM
Just wanted to say that i completely agree but i also feel the same way about polearms. Poleaxe spec would be viable for Warriors in the same was as fists are for Rogues, if there were just more of them. The 5% crit with MS/Poleaxe spec is nice for Warriors who are bored of maces.