Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPlayer burnout and the next expansion
by Mike Schramm 
Sep 5th 2007 at 8:29PM
Hardcore Casual has a post up about his reaction to the news being released about the next expansion. As a player who left WoW, he's not impressed.Burning Crusade's effect on Blizzard's game was gigantic-- player who'd left came back in droves, and guilds and players who hadn't been playing together for a while all of a sudden found themselves online almost every night. And even out of the game, it had a huge impact-- Wowhead, the argument could be made, rode the wave of Burning Crusade, and it led them to their sale.
So the question now is: will WotLK have the same effect? HC says no-- he says Hero classes as hyped were much cooler than the way Death Knights are being implemented, and that the next 10 levels doesn't appeal to him. They do appeal to his father, he says, and there's no question that lots of players are interested in the next expansion. Who wouldn't want to fight alongside and/or against Arthas? This expansion might get players to connect with this universe in a way they haven't since they played Warcraft III.
Or it might be too late. Even Blizzard realizes the player base is headed for a rough patch-- they've started the Scroll of Resurrection program to bring straying players back with bribes. The game itself is far from over-- there is a significant core audience who still love this game (including myself), and can't wait to see WotLK. But the fact is that WoW may have peaked with BC. Even if there is a nice peak coming again with Wrath of the Lich King, all indications are that it won't be as high as the first expansion went.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Expansions, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
bill gates Sep 5th 2007 11:50PM
@ 17 IKT, I knew these comments where way too mature for WoW Insider
It wouldn't feel right unless the Nerd Gladiators showed up to bring it down a notch
Ryan Sep 5th 2007 11:53PM
@13 It's not so much gimmicky as incredibly imbalanced. You can't have an e-sport type game where teams that put in the most time have an inherent advantage beyond mere skill. The thing that really separates the 1700 teams from 2000+ teams is grinding time, not necessarily skill.
It's really sad too, since the PvP game has some really compelling gameplay. Honestly, the most fun I've had playing WoW in forever was on the PTR where everyone had equal gear, and just raiding Halaa. Apparently, though, blizz feels that there isn't enough of a gear disparity given their stance on season three arena weapons.
Jashin Sep 6th 2007 12:04AM
Thank you IKT for your informative, thoughtful and provocative reply.
Anyways, what #16 was saying has some truth to it. You are either the casual gamer who has no problem just logging on a in small increments and solo grinding some quest. Or you are the raider/pvper who does the same repetitive things over and over.
Those who are in between are kind of stuck. To much time spent to be considered casual. But not geared enough, or in the guild to raid most of the end game content. Which leaves a large portion of the player base in the gray, boring middle of the road. Basically left to grinding dungeons and quests for some faction. Or trying to pvp against people better geared (mainly who have more time to spend on honor grinding).
What does this have to do with Wotlk? BC was big. Brought about a lot of changes. I don't see that happening in the next expansion. Grind out another 10 levels. Get new gear. Then figure out what to do with myself. Or go play an alt that still has to play the old content that seems will never get updated. Everquest was at least smart enough to do updates often. New content,and revamps of old zones. Not just revamps, but low level content additions.
Blizz is going to have to try a lot harder. Those high numbers aren't go to last forever. With content being decimated within a week of being released. The newbies learning that this easy game is ultra repetitive...they are going to have to add more meat, and less side dishes to the plate to keep the consumers coming back for more.
johnmcgruddy Sep 6th 2007 12:36AM
I know i got burnt out. Quit last month. Said i wasn't coming back until the Zul was out or my server got free transfers off ( it is dead, no pve progress at all & pvp is non exsistent )
Just running the same instance week after week killed it. Along with population and imbalance issues ( one of the top 10 lowest alliance servers ) it just took any wanting to play.
Hoping the expansion doesnt do that but who knows what will happen in a year and a half.
jmbatchelder Sep 6th 2007 12:50AM
@20, You mean like you just did?
Honestly, the expansion is going to take a great deal of time to get out...mid 2008 is my guess at the earliest, realistically early 2009. So there's going to be plenty of time for SSC, TKE, the Sunwell and all the other stuff that's STILL new (and the even NEWER stuff coming soon)! The folks that are leaving the game were probably going to leave regardless of any expansion and/or content, you just can't please everyone.
Ugkul Sep 6th 2007 1:30AM
Well the numbers are still trending downward. Not greatly but still...
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/article/2007/August+Concurrency+Numbers&fid=4?
Coherent Sep 6th 2007 2:55AM
I agree with Poster #11, stuff like that would _definitely_ revitalize interest in the game.
chispito Sep 6th 2007 3:03AM
I'm casual, I left after four months of TBC because even though the game at 70 was way better than it was at 60, a grind is a grind. Never liked PVP much, and getting a dungeon group took ages.
I would have loved above all else to play some different classes from 58-70 in Outlands, but Blizzard provided no way to do this apart from wasting days of my life leveling characters in Azeroth, where the loot is retarded and the dungeons are worse--not to mention the distinct lack of quests.
That's why I'm not coming back for the new expansion. I don't have the weeks straight of playing time to get a few new classes to try in the FUN content.
chispito Sep 6th 2007 3:07AM
Oh and as a quick follow up, I suppose if I qualify I could roll a death knight. Except something tells me there will be no shortage of those things running around and that's just one class.
yotix Sep 6th 2007 4:29AM
"Hardcore Casual"
Erm, who?
"has a post up about his reaction"
Ah, another whiner.
"As a player who left WoW, he's not impressed."
If he was impressed, he'd still be playing. As is, he's probably needing to find ten reasons not to play anymore per day ... besides, what do we care about the opinions of people who don't even play the game?
"the next 10 levels doesn't appeal to him. They do appeal to his father, he says"
Frankly, who gives a flying squirrel shit?
"But the fact is that WoW may have peaked with BC."
Oh. This is news to you?
4STR4STALeatherBelt Sep 6th 2007 5:31AM
@ 13
"With the introduction of other competitive games incoming, hardcore gamers are very likely to leave at least for a bit to try them out."
That is most definatly true. Personally the only reason I won't be moving to Pirates of the Burning Sea just yet is because I don't have the PC power (nor the money spare to upgrade/buy a new PC). If that changes then I'll be gone in a heartbeat.
nate Sep 6th 2007 7:17AM
I think thats its most likely that it will peak again, because i think there are some people who stop playing TBC now because they think its just a waste of time playing on lvl 70 when the lvl cap is increased again :)
Zghuk Sep 6th 2007 7:33AM
"Something like LOTRO's books system where new zones and content are added every few months would be perfect for WoW. And probably the best solution for burnout - continual new content will bring players back the same as the expansions do."
Wait a minute!
Blizzard has done this before in the classic WoW. We remember diremaul, silithus and so on.
The main problem is that the cycles of development are too long. see the dates of the patches 2.1... we all waiting weeks for 2.2 and in 2.2 there will be no new content!
I think WoW classic was so strong because everybody knows there will be something new with patches (1.7; 1.9 and so on). But now real new thing are supposed to be in the expansion.
Unfortunaly I think is looking too much for their expansion. C'mon, we are paying much per month and this should only be for the servers? not for the hope that something will be implemented?
What's about new instances in Outland? Outland will be a dead place with WotLK so they should bring more content NOW.
Zequel Sep 6th 2007 10:49AM
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'll do the 70-80 thing. There *are* things that could bring me back. I think Blizzard has to think outside the box for new instances. I remember an XMEN comic where the team was divided into pairs when entering a villian's stronghold, they had to work together to meet up with each other and unite in the end (maybe a timer?) to defeat the villian. So you could randomly split a raid or 5/10 man and have them work together for part of an instance. Or how about an instance where if you have a runner it can alert the instance's entire guard and force you to reset. Maybe a couple 2 or 3 man instances? How about allowing players to play dungeon master in an instance for the opposing faction? Bullfrog made a very successful game where you were the dungeon master I believe. I know blizzard changes the raid bosses around quite a bit but 5mans seem a bit paint by the numbers to me.
Gabby Sep 6th 2007 9:43AM
I think the mention of the Scroll of Ressurection program is a cheap shot. All it is is an extension of a program that's existed for well over two years now, instead of referring new players, they're letting you refer old players now as well.
Look into something before pulling an assumption.
Jeramon Sep 6th 2007 9:50AM
Sadly, in both the real world and the World... of Warcraft, there is a huge amount of people who seem only capable of defining their lives and themselves by what they don't like.
Dipstick Sep 6th 2007 10:03AM
I'm much more of a solo / small group player now, since larger groups = guilds = raids = drama and so on.
Still enjoy the PvP aspects though, like arenas. And if I'm not starting to work too hard by the time I graduate uni I'll get WotLK if just to level up 10 levels, check out the new content and try out the new talents/skills for classes - and PvP a bit.
nirikun Sep 6th 2007 10:05AM
Oh for crying out loud. It's a GAME. It's a pointless, useless waste of your time in terms of eternity and life. Good grief, why is everyone trying to make such a fact out to be some grand Revelation the likes Paul and the prophets never could have dreamed of? Arrogance indeed.
"Dear Diary, today I figured out that WoW is pointless, and that all my gear will be replaced or useless eventually. I must be a genius and I will share this new found wisdom with everyone I meet. After all, nobody except me could possibly figure this out." *pats self on the back*
All of life is a stupid grind that (in the minds of certain people) is absolutely pointless because you die in the end. And you don't have new content implemented all the time, or even tweaked. Work, eat, sleep, hang out with friends, REPEAT. Oooh, pointlessness.
Well, life is pointless unless you look beyond it. WoW is a game and one day I won't be playing it. But dang, I like the game and enjoy all the PVP'ing, raiding, Arena, and whatever. I don't care about the gear that much, I just want to have fun. I wish I could play 30 Arena games a week just to kill and be killed instead of a measly ten. I play WoW so that I can relax and have fun, which is definitely not pointless in terms of my mental state.
WoW is fine. It's a very well designed game that captures and continues to capture nearly ten million people around the globe, more than any of its competitors. There were tons of new subscribers that came to the game through BC. Half the people in raiding guilds these days never saw Blackwing Lair or Molten Core in their glory years, myself included. Of course the game is going to eventually going to peak and decline...but why on earth does that matter?
What's with this spiteful, hateful attitude so many people have towards WoW and Blizzard? There are so many whiny forum posters and commenters who were never happy with the game and never will be. They just like to complain. The only reason you would be interested or care about WoW's "decline" (hmm, I don't remember any headlines about the subscriber base sliding back to eight million...) is if you don't like Blizzard and *want* it to fail.
Why is it so hard for you to just like the game? And if you don't like the game, stop playing it and leave. Don't whine, don't come on here and revel in your misery and spread it around to others, saying: "Ha ha, WoW's dying! I told ya so!"
Content can't be pulled out of thin air. You can't just say from your comfy little chair "Hey, it'd be great if we have new content!" without giving a single idea as to what it could be or how it could fit into the game. You are simply wasting everyone's time.
Do you want to know why development cycles take so long? How long do you think it took to craft the Black Temple and make it into an instance that was fun, interesting, lore-worthy, balanced, difficult, and rewarding? Do you enlightened saviors of the WoW user base have any ideas concerning the makeup of the bosses, the mobs, the loot, etc? How long do you think it took for them to merely make Skettis and make the daily quests? You think they could just do all this in a single day and that they're just lazily sitting in their chairs laughing at you? Spare us all your childishness.
Blizzard has 10 zillion more brilliant ideas than you could ever conceive, because it has people who work and play this game full time, each looking at it from a different angle searching for flaws and strengths. The game is by far in better hands with Blizzard, the company that built the game into the behemoth that it is, than with a few whiny hard core/casual gamers who can't seem to have fun.
Give Blizzard credit and enjoy the game. If you can't leave. And leave the people who enjoy it (all nine million of them) alone.
Mad Cow Sep 6th 2007 10:27AM
A cowz rant:
Blizzard essentially screwed themselves with TBC. Case in point, Karazhan. How many people quit over the bottle neck in progression that blizzard pats themselves on the back about? Countless. End of story.
Don't even get me started on the introduction of reputation grinds. Argent Dawn was fine as it was one of handful ... TBC introduced more reputation than most people could shake a stick at and stay sane.
WotLK is supposed to be their feeble attempt to save their numbers. Some things that point to this are:
1) the Scroll of Resurrection program ... decline in user base has finally hit upper management.
2) Zul'Aman hasn't been released yet. ZA was supposed to fit between Kara and SSC/TK to "ease" progression. The fact that it won't be out a for a full 6 months before the "expansion" hits is a sign blizzard is in panic.
3) Servers are dying. My server in particular is a barren wasteland. If you aren't in the 3-4 raiding guilds that are in SSC/TK ... you pretty much sit in trade chat all night. Most lowbie zones have 4-6 people in them (save STV with its 8-10) Horde side (and Horde out number ally on my server 4-1). Shat's combined population is less than the Darnassus of old.
Personally, I'm looking for a new game. Blizzard's "shout out to the casual" has killed my joy ... and I'm a casual, despite that I raid. I take days off to do things with my wife, travel, etc. So did 90% of my guild. Hardcore's love the new WoW, its for them ... I don't mind, if you do more work you should get better rewards, same holds true in RL.
However, the disparity between those two (hardcore vs casual) groups has grown way out of proportion. Take for instance world PvP, in the old days if you were 60 and the other guy was 60 ... there was hesitation if you knew the guys reputation as a good PvPer, despite the fact that his gear was shit ... and back then ... it COULD be, and he'd still be kind enough to hand you your own ass, with a side of /spit and /lol. Now, one look of the gear ... forget the guy tries to taunt you or drop a stoneclaw totem mid fight ... if he's got the gear you've got no chance.
While I like wow, and it has been a fun escape ... like 98% of my guild (220+) ... it's time to move on. blizzard created the greatest MMO to date ... and then killed it. Maybe they saw the reports of WoW killing off gaming in general and feared no one would buy the new Starcraft ... who knows. It was fun ... but all good things must come to an end.
4STR4STALeatherBelt Sep 6th 2007 10:43AM
My god 37 / nirikun, the only person whining hard here is you. Well done chump.
Incase you don't understand such basic concepts: Constructive critisism is a fantastic way for gamers to put their point accross, and often a great way for the developers to improve based on what the community is saying. Some degrees higher than others.
You actually expect people to just stay quiet when they have decent comments to make? Get real. Just because the official forums are packed full of moaning 12 year olds doesn't mean this site is.