More AFK concerns in Alterac Valley
by Mike Schramm 
Sep 10th 2007 at 2:31PM
Here's more about the upcoming AFK debuff in Alterac Valley. Last week, we talked about what the voting requirements might be to give out the debuff, and there were some really great comments on that post, specifically about an idea to give the debuff out right when players start the battleground. I think that's a great idea, and it would give everyone in the BG an impetus to get right into battle and do what the BGs are meant for: PvP fighting.But here's another concern, voiced by Fantastiko of Alleria: Currently, as we know it, the debuff won't actually disconnect AFKers from the battleground. If players vote to give them the debuff, and if they don't enter battle within the set time period, all it would do is keep them from gaining honor while AFK. Which means that even if the debuff works as planned, and the 10 people in the Peace Cave get the debuff and gain no honor, your team is still down 10 people. Not good.
So as planned, what exactly will this debuff stop? AFK players can still go AFK, and just hope that no one thinks to report them (when this first starts up, tons of reporting will probably go down, but eventually, people will likely be able to get away with more and more). It seems like the best solution would be to give everyone this debuff when they enter the BG, and have it cancel on combat. And if combat isn't entered, or they are reported, AFKers should be disconnected from the BG completely-- even better, with the "deserter" debuff-- allowing other players to take their place.
Of course, this reporting system is still in the planning stages, so it could be that Blizzard has already reached these conclusions and it is going to be implemented this way. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of testing as well-- we likely won't see the system until 2.3 or even beyond anyway. But the problem with this is that AFKers are crafty-- if there's any way at all that they can gain honor while they go AFK, they'll do it.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Erica Olson Sep 10th 2007 2:38PM
I have an idea..
If you want to PvP then go to a PvP server. Then they can get all that PvP stuff off the PvE servers. Then those that want to and do PvP can and get the rewards and those that don't want to PvP but lurk in the Peace Cave for the honor won't be able to because there won't be any Peace Cave to lurk in.
Then they can implement if you hide in the Peace Cave on the PvP servers you get nothing plus get banned from joining a battleground for a week.
Smurk Sep 10th 2007 2:45PM
Imposing a debuff on everyone at the start of a BG seems counterintuitive. People are mad at AFK'ers because those people seek honor points even at the expense of victory; if everyone starts with a zero-honor debuff, your #1 concern upon starting the battle is to "turn on" honor - even if it's easy to do, I don't think this is true to the spirit of people who truly want to win the BG.
Wulfhere Sep 10th 2007 2:47PM
@1 - I don't think that would be a good idea. I don't know about other people but I like a nice game or two of AV or EotS when I have just enough time to play to run around whacking things but not enough to commit to an instance.
I think the idea of throwing the debuff on people at the start of the game is a good one *if* you have enough time to get into combat with something worth honor. I've done BG's where the alliance won't come out of the WSG flag room, for instance, and it took a minute or so for us to realize it and go in after them.
Alex Sep 10th 2007 2:57PM
@Blizz...I know they obviously have some excellent AI programmers on staff full time. It's *not* hard to write a heuristic to check if someone is lurking in the peace cave. Why not just auto kick them? Why all this voting nonsense? It's utterly trivial to have it detected automatically.
drew Sep 10th 2007 2:58PM
Something definitely needs to be done. This weekend the other BGs were also full of AFKers.
Ryan Sep 10th 2007 2:58PM
@1 Hell no. I primarily play the PVP game (battlegrounds & arena) but I'm on a PVE server. I just can't stand the way that PVP servers are 'always on' as far as the PVP flag is concerned.
Tseran Sep 10th 2007 3:03PM
First thing, the number of people to report should be at least 3 for WSG, 4 for AB and EotS, 5 for AV. Any lower and you get groups picking on people. Now, while the debuff is a great idea, it also has minor drawbacks. A few idiots could start tagging people who are playing defensive, which in my opinion is a vital part of the game. Just because you don't agree with the tactic doesn't mean it isn't valid. And if no one attacks your position, you are rather screwed. Perhaps a way to show you are defending, by say clicking on the flag will remove the debuff as well. That way you can still do your job without having people be mean spirited towards defense. With WSG, after two minute with the debuff, you should be kicked with the Deserter debuf, all the rest five minutes.
john Sep 10th 2007 3:15PM
yes give power to the players that have shown time and time again that they don't care.
how do you make someone that doesn't care about the bg start to care. unless you want it to get to the point that you only have 10-20 av games a month.
i am new to this game. guess what the second time in av i went gosh this bg sucks. third time i just qued up watched some tv, chatted with the girlfriend, talked on the phone.
guess what i need those tokens and honor for gear to be competitive for arena. so how will you make me care? you won't kind of like how they can't fix light well or coh because of the bad taste that is already associated with these talents without making them over powered.
the proper way to make people care can't be enforced, without causing penalties to server that you can't risk them if you are a casual.
FireStar Sep 10th 2007 3:19PM
afk debuff Will solve the issues. Players won't stay afk in BGs when they realize they aren't getting any honor. This may take even a few times of them afking in BGs, but after enough time it won't be an issue. Have you gotten any gold spam lately? exactly.
Tripno Sep 10th 2007 3:22PM
My computer isn't the top of the line and it tends to crash when I enter Alterac Valley. Not a huge deal to me, I just close Warcraft and restart... after about 5 minutes I'm usually able to connect and participate. I've been told by friends on vent when the games crashes, my character just stands there. It doesn't remove me from the battleground.
I'm certainly a minority on this, but I do want to raise the question again, which is how will we prevent people from being incorrectly flagged?
Especially if you propose to slap the deserter buffs on people who don't play within a certain window of time, how long will that window be? Too short, and you may punish people like me who are just having temporary technical issues. Obviously though, too long a wait, and the team may not be able to overcome the player deficit caused by the AFKers, to compete and win.
Atheus Sep 10th 2007 3:24PM
The problem with having the debuff on as soon as the BG starts is that all those players who decide to stay on defense will lose all the honor gained by the offense until the other faction finally makes its way to the boss. In turn it may also decrease that amount of people willing to be on defense.
Evil M Sep 10th 2007 3:27PM
I imagine it will work to a certain extent, those who would normally stay in the AFKave will numlock run into the fray at the bridge and just serve as meatshields. They stay in combat, get honor, are a free HK and keep me from getting targeted.
I want to see the AFKharge now =D.
Smurk Sep 10th 2007 3:29PM
As I have been playing a lot of AV lately, I've been thinking about this more since my above post.
First, has anyone mentioned that if AFK'ers can no longer profit from BGs, the wait times to get into AV may double or triple? That's not a suggestion that AFK'ers be allowed to run (sit?) rampant, just a thought.
Second, maybe the AFK problem is being considered the wrong way. Instead of trying to discourage people from AFK'ing, maybe we should ask how people can be better encouraged to actively participate in a BG. Increasing rewards instead of imposing punishments seems like a much better solution to me. The difficulty still lies in determining which players are "active," of course.
NH2 Sep 10th 2007 3:40PM
Truthfully, I just wish the afkers would realize that if there are only 10 people nonafk against 30+ people, they aren't going to get squat. After earning a whopping 48 honor for one AV game I took my pally alt into EotS to at least have a chance to earn more points.
One of my guildmates also mentioned this weekend they had an AV game where there were only 5 nonafk people. Bleh.
BigFire Sep 10th 2007 3:46PM
The AFK disease have now spread to WSG, AB and EoTS. Theres people who refused to leave the starting point, or actively hiding to avoid confrontation.
Slayblaze Sep 10th 2007 3:49PM
The trick with initiating an automated auto-afk-kick from the bg is in preventing false positives, and most likely Blizz will err on the side of caution meaning a few will still get through.
Finding that fine line between those with slow pc's or connection problems such as #10 mentions will never be perfect no matter how long Blizz puts off coming up with a solution. Still, anything would be better than nothing at this point or continuing on how it has been.
I would almost be inclined to suggest going at things from a different angle and make players actually have some sort of vested interest in active participation (or to "care" as has been mentioned). Maybe something that hasn't been done before, or a reward rather than the punishment of being flagged deserter for those not participating. I don't know what the would be, offhand, but then again I'm not getting paid by Blizz to think up ideas for them...surely they can come up with something!?
Justo Sep 10th 2007 3:53PM
fuck the "no honor" debuff. get enough stacks of it and they get the deserter debuff. otherwise, just like the article said, they will just stand there like dumbfuck assholes and cause their team to be down that many people.
the only way players are going to get around this is bot programs. i dont remember what its called, but i know a guy who runs a bot program that somehow intelligently moves around an area. so lets say he takes his rogue into an AV and bots it. he just walks around stealthed and people will think its an actual person and not report him. im sure there are a ton of people out there with the same type of program, and if they dont kick people from a BG for being afk, more people may resort to botting BG's.
novelty22 Sep 10th 2007 4:08PM
what's up with all this "the person on defense stuff?"...i mean i can understand defending a tower when the other team has cap'd a graveyard near it..or they are incoming to that graveyard, etc.. but I hope you all aren't trying to justify those who head straight into the generals room when the battleground begins knowing they've got to wait a good 10-15 minutes until the other team even makes it that direction...
They should be assisting offense during this time anyhow. That's what recall trinkets are made for i was thinking....
and clicking on a flag to clear a debuff will only make them go from the cave to some remote flag that instead of jumping or healing themselves, they'll just have to do that within every 5 min.
Also it seems the new AFK tactic is to goto a graveyard that's taken off the bat (sh or sf) and afk there. That way it appears on the scoreboard you are participating (and by standing there i don't mean where the other team is going to notice you or be able to even go straight for you...it seems during the past 3 weeks i've found spots at stonehearth i never knew existed in the last 2 1/2 years just from seeing some dot on my map and using mind vision to see where the heck this person was)
Bristin Sep 10th 2007 4:10PM
I say you get into AV, and if you go afk for even the majority of the match you gain a constant debuff, that not only stops you from entering pvp battlegrounds, but from gaining honor in world pvp and arena points as well.
And it is visible to all players, so that they may harass you for trying to outsmart blizzard.
The debuff lasts one week.
Seriously, why not crack down on these people, they pay to play the game, sure, and if there isn't something about actively ruining the game experience for others by not playing as it was originally intended, there should be.
Remember the post with the drood who stacked the buff from DM? taking advantage of the game engine, he was told that he would be banned for a day if he didnt get rid of the buffs immediatly, how is afk honor gain any different?
Epiny Sep 10th 2007 4:18PM
The problem is people are getting FREE honor. What is the point of going to AV to afk if you get no honor from it? Take away the honor and you fix the problem.
However Blizz has said that if someone gets enjoyment out of sitting in the cave all day, then they should be able to do it. It's there $15. Removing honor will fix 99% of the problem.