Me, you and Chesty Larue
by Amanda Rivera 
Sep 11th 2007 at 5:50PM
Cach, a player on the Spanish-speaking Zul'jin realm wrote in to tell us a little story about him, a GM, and the chests in the Mechanar. So the story goes that Cach was going through his usual sneaky-stealthy chest farming run in the instance, when he was messaged by a GM. It appears that such a run is about to be considered an exploit, and that Cach was getting a note on his Permanent Record and would soon be sent to the Principal's Office if he didn't stop. Didn't stop? If he stops playing a rogue, they mean. Okay, I may be wrong on this, but I honestly thought being sneaky and inventive was what the rogue class was all about. Turns out that using their skills to achieve monetary gain is a no-no. Oh wait, what about Pick Pocket you say? Yeah, my point exactly. I fail to see how using the skills programmed into the class is exploiting the game. Yes, he is able to stealth through the instance and collect items from chests. Yes, this enables to rogues to make cash in an inventive way. So does AoE farming fire elementals on the Elemental Plateau. Will this too be considered an exploit soon?
There is a fine line between using the skills your characters have in an inventive way and exploiting weaknesses in the game. A rogue's ability to stealth by enemies? I really hope they don't consider that an exploit. Otherwise why not just roll a warrior and have done with?
[thanks Cach!]
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Tricks
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Joe Sep 11th 2007 6:02PM
If this becomes an exploit or is truely considered one, then it's a really sad day for all wow players. I'd hate to think that using ones ability is considered "cheating or an "exploit". /sigh
dan Sep 11th 2007 6:03PM
What about stealth runs of all those other instances?
this seems silly to me.
Jamesisgreat Sep 11th 2007 6:14PM
How can playing the game exactly as it's designers designed it be an exploit? They intended rogues to be able to stealth, they placed the chests so the mobs could be pulled away from the chests, and then they get mad when someone puts 2 and 2 together and finds an alternative way to making money other than grinding the sodding elemental plateau?
If they're that worried by it then just make those patroling mobs able to detect stealth. Until then, I'd see this as a viable way of making money.
Arras Sep 11th 2007 6:12PM
so is a druid/rogue stealth run through steamvaults and arcatraz to get your KZ key fragments going to be an exploit too?
yeah, rogues being sneaky isn't game breaking. if he was using speed hacks, teleports, etc to get around then yeah, he's being a bad, bad rogue. otherwise, he's being a sneaky bastard like he should be
Bokor Sep 11th 2007 6:14PM
That's stupid as hell.
It's not like he's wall walking or hacking into C'thuns room. He's using the skills given to him, and it does take some skill to keep from being spotted by enemies.
I'd be rather pissed if a GM considered my Ent-farming in Skettis an exploit because I fear the mob over and over again without getting hit.
Zbegra Sep 12th 2007 8:12AM
Blizzard has mechanics for mobs that allow them to see through stealth.. instead of banning players they could rather just put some anti-stealth mob near the chest. Geez!
Sedna Sep 11th 2007 6:15PM
From what I can gather (with the help of babelfish), the concern was not that the player was stealthing in to do a loot run, it's that he was taking advantage of the terrain in Mechanar to engage monsters, then jump down, go out of combat, and loot the chest. (I don't play a rogue OR speak Spanish, so tell me if I've got this wrong.) So I can see Blizzard's argument that this would be considered a 'sploit.
However.
A terrain or layout mistake like that is something I would have no problem taking advantage of. (Hello, bugged Fel Cannons!) There's no hacking or alteration of the client involved, you're not running a bot- this all takes place within the game's structure, where your reward (the chest contents) will be randomly selected. If Blizzard wants this to stop, they need to fix the code.
Shay Sep 11th 2007 6:18PM
Just an example of Blizz getting caught with thier pants down. I have a rogue and have made the run a few times...All blizz has to do is make it so the mobs don't run all the way around or move the chests! They shouldn't be slapping thier players on the hands because they figure out how to use thier classes. As long as Blizz doesn't nerf the instance banning down to 1/hr. I swear I'll quit if that happens.
Mainstay Sep 11th 2007 6:20PM
If I remember correctly, wasn't this the exact reason that they put the 4 instances per hour cap on in the first place?
Annwn Sep 11th 2007 6:23PM
@ # 6, yeah you're right... it is a terrain exploit using the stairs.
However, stealth runs are not exploits, neither is AOE farming something, because you're using ONLY your class abilities, however, using the terrain to your advantage is an exploit.
wanna see terrain exploit in action? check out any of the warlock soloing heroics videos, or faxmonkey's little stint with the dragon from caverns of time, that'll give you a good explanation of what using terrain exploit(pathing exploit) is.
Coherent Sep 11th 2007 6:36PM
It's bullshit when players get warned for killing PVE mobs in sneaky/smart ways. If Blizz doesn't like it, then they need to fix the encounter so that it doesn't apply any more.
I do think that terrain exploits are absolutely wrong in a PVP context though... If you're killing an AI mob, it's cool, but if you're ruining another player's game, you need to get bitchslapped for it.
Angelus Sep 12th 2007 11:29AM
The cap is 5 instances per hour.
This has already been fixed on the PTR, actually, they increased the difficulty of looting the chests. From what I was told, this is not an exploit, just clever use of your Rogue character. Some people did complain and it was addressed with the powers that be. Thus, the PTR change. When 2.2 goes live, it will be very hard to loot chests in Mechanar.
Changes are made all the time to try and 'balance'the in game economy. In my opinion, and I think most people agree, it really was'nt earth shattering money being taken from Mechanar. But it was obviously signifigant enough for Blizz to change Mechanar's chest locations.
In my opinion, this is no different then a hunter using his skills to kite a world boss to its death, or a mage killing mass mobs with his AOE. It's legal, not an exploit.
Man, a rogue's definition is in this. Making stupid mobs run to one location, by creating a diversion, then popping a smoke grenade, stealing their loot, man that's what a rogue is all about! we're friggen thieves.
Fletch Sep 11th 2007 6:45PM
Regardless of whether it should be considered an exploit...how can they punish someone for doing something that is not considered an exploit at this time, especially if that person has no way to know? Clearly engineers need to be able to craft mind-reading caps.
Benor Sep 11th 2007 6:49PM
This just sounds stupid. Really, really stupid.
Laukidh Sep 11th 2007 6:51PM
Heh, screenshots or it didn't happen.
rick gregory Sep 11th 2007 6:52PM
@6... There's nothing that you do ehwn stealthing Mech that can reasonably called an exploit. Yes, you pull monsters up the ramp, jump, Vanish and go out of combat so you can loot. But those are all recognized mechanics of the class.
If Blizz wants to prevent rogues from doing this REDESIGN THE ENCOUNTER. I mean, come on. Don't they have anyone playing a rogue there? of COURSE we're going to see a chest and say "hey, I wonder if i could stealth to that and loot it?" So... Test this stuff when you're designing the instance!
An easy fix to this particular encounter is to not have all of the mobs run up the ramp when you aggro one. If there's a mob still near the chest that can't be pulled, then you can't use Vanish, go out of combat and have enough time to loot since the mob near the chest would immediately aggro you as you land.
agentaero Sep 11th 2007 6:53PM
Up next.. fear kiting will be an exploit... its really the same thing if you think about it
Falconner Sep 11th 2007 7:52PM
OK, so the rogue-utility nerfing is getting more than a little annoying. There was a time when the system was open enough that rogues could get away with all sorts of crp, and to me it was really those things that made the class the most fun. Back when you could sap the single closest mob and ninja a chest, now you cant open any chest while in combat (sapping puts you in combat even though you're still stealthed and nothing is attacking you.) Back when you could tag quest obectives like the deeds in scholomance by being sneaky, now there are more and more measures in place that force a rogue to do it the "normal" way. (WTF is up with entering combat breaking the mounting cast anyway?) It's like the couple of rogue quests and the door in shattered halls are just poor attempts to through us a bone and keep us quiet. If all this fellow was doing was pulling the mobs, jumping down to the chest, vanishing, then looting before they get back, then grats to him (or whoever came up with it.) That is good old bona fide roguery. So many of those fun things don't work anymore that I honestly have stopped trying, and never noticed the chests in mechanaar.
Sometimes good times are still to be had, but i fear they may be becoming extinct. On one run in Shadow labyrinth, the felguard patrols had spawned back in, and the group had to get pass them. The one that paths through the doorway was stuck though, and wouldn't path away, so I vanish-pulled it out of the way, and the group could run through un-molested. (I sneak past, ranged pull the mob and take off further into the instance. Once the mob is far enough away, the group runs through the doorway and gets off to the side into a corner. Then I vanish, the mob runs back to his post, and we all continue on happy as can be.) I think rogues should be able to do that kind of thing, and not have it be considered exploiting. Yes, every time rogues manage by stealth what others must fight for, someone may cry foul, but so what? If we can't actually do anything cool with our trickery, there may as well be no difference between a rogue and a DPS warrior. ('cept for haste stacking and PPM procs, but wait, aren't those getting nerfed to hell in 2.2?) Bleh.
Dave Sep 11th 2007 7:51PM
it's not fair that they're considering it an exploit, but it's not fair either that rogues can get 1 free blue item per hour without much risk at all.
it's pretty much tanked the value of every single L70 BOE blue that's out there, especially the gems. Not cool. Yeah, Blizzard should have fixed it before, but it's not like they know about all the ways to sneak chests everyhwere. I've heard there are at least 3 more instances where a chest is relatively easy to sneak, so this sorta thing is far from over...
brett Sep 11th 2007 7:58PM
I support the nerf, it's ruining economies. My AH is currently flooded with BoE blues and BoE epics. It reminds me of when the teleport hack was being used to solo the Ogre King in DM-N. The sheer number of potions (the chest drops a fair number of heal/mana pots) on the AH was ludicrous.
Blizzard, however, can't simply get away with saying "You can't do that." They will have to redesign the room slightly to prevent this. That or allow some of the demons to see through stealth.