Guildwatch: Careful what you ask for...
by Mike Schramm 
Sep 12th 2007 at 2:29AM
I was just joking when I said "video or it didn't happen" to a guild's announcement of a Paladin-tanked Prince kill last week, but they weren't messing around: they actually got me video. You guys didn't have to go to all that trouble! But since you did, I'll say this: Ok, some Paladins, in some situations, with the right group makeups, may possibly, at times, be able to tank.
Happy now? I still won't sing the praises of Paladin tanks until I can see one for myself, but I guess I'll allow that yes, sometimes, Paladins might have the ability to tank. This week's Guildwatch, your weekly dose of drama, Paladin-enabled downing, and recruitment, starts right after you click the link below. Tips may be sent, please (by Paladins or anyone else), to wowguildwatch@gmail.com. Thanks!
DRAMA
- Slow week on drama? Apparently during a Vashj raid this week, someone threw a Leather Ball into the main tank of Reforged (of Runetotem). Shocking, I know. According to our tipster, "healers are suspected." Those healers are a sketchy lot, aren't they?
- What is the deal with the guild progression thread over on the Shadowsong servers? Apparently Vintage, for some reason, didn't want to be involved in the thread. Most realms have these-- it's just a list of how far each guild has gotten. But Vintage apparently wanted no part of it, and they trolled the thread so much that Timbal actually had to close it down. The drama even overflowed into its own thread.
- Naqoyqatsi is the number 2 guild on Gnomeregan, and here's some drama about it (warning: this sounds a lot like revenge rumor spreading, so grain of salt time). We're told that Guild Leader Uzziel and DKP/Loot officer Alzena left the guild to join up with Pwnhammer, and they even took the main tank with them. Would have been fine, except that Uzziel apparently lied about the leaving for days, and Alzena reportedly looted the guild bank before she left. But karma may have its say yet: rumors say that Alzena might not be in Pwnhammer for long-- her DPS supposedly isn't up to snuff.
- I can't even tell what's going on here, but I agree with Tharfor: saying "suck ma balls" isn't exactly "sorting things out like adults."
- This Paladin gets the fifth degree when applying to Nightmare's Aslyum. Apparently he's got a history of leaving big guilds that he just can't get away from.
- Gimped on Runetotem downed Illidan. He, apparently, wasn't prepared.
- Athanatoi of EU Sha'tar finished off Prince, and continue onwards and upwards in their climb of Karazhan.
- Addicted of Kalecgos-H killed Prince in their first pure guild group this week. Grats!
- Elysium of Suramar said they killed the Prince last week with a Pally tank-- I joked that they needed "video or it didn't happen," but they weren't joking around. They sent the stats for the fight over, and here they are. And then, the next time they went, they actually took video of it, and you can see it above. I have to be careful what I ask for-- I guess: I just might get it.
- Reported on Barthilas-H picked up their first Attumen mount. Grats to Phyx and all for getting it, but the real question is: how did you handle the looting?
- The New Inquisition on Blackhand-A dropped Void Reaver (while our tipster was out of town-- she says hopefully they've figured out the trash there, too). They're also recruiting "a few prot Warriors, Holy and Shadow Priests, Holy Paladins and a few good Warlocks."
- Highborne on Exodar-H has downed Doomwalker on their first try ever. Awesome. They also finished off Kazzak for a server second and a Horde first.
- Severance on Eldre'Thelas-H downed Gruul for a guild first.
- Wildly Inept Raiders dropped Void Reaver. Grats!
- Free Company on Llane-A finished off the Prince, and they used a Paladin, too. What's the world coming to?
- Reign of Shadows on Shadow Council-H has finished off the Lurker Below and now Kazzak as well. Void Rever and Hydross, you're on notice!
- The Ascension of Maelstrom finished off Karazhan, started a second group in there, and recently downed Gruul. They sound busy.
- Shadows of Emerald Isle on Ravencrest is really just getting their feet wet with raiding, but they're rolling right along: they've already gotten all the way up to the Chess Event in Karazhan. Grats!
- Cat's Game on Gorefiend-A has downed Rage, Anatheron, and Kaz'rogal in Mount Hyjal, all for Alliance firsts and server seconds. Nice job!
- Glory of War on Lightning's Blade-A is looking for mature, fun-loving folks to raid without the pressure of a high stakes guild. They've got Kara on farm, and they want more for beyond.
- Death Without Dishonor on Thunderhorn-H is recruiting raiders for 25-man content.
- Revelation on Medivh says they're a guild that "caters to hardcore raiders trapped in the bodies of casual players."
- Ginger Seperatist Movement on Uldaman-A is recruiting one protection tank and a few healers for three nights a week of 25 man raiding.
- Nephilium on Daggerspine is looking for a few more members-- they are apparently the folks who used to be Murder, Inc., and they're looking for fun folks of all classes interested in a fun raiding guild.
- Hate on Firetree is looking for mature players to fill some raiding spots.
- We got word of a great new guild on Kul'Tiras-H that's looking for some DPS, an offtank, and healers to fill out a Karazhan team-- except that they didn't actually tell us their name.
- Blades of Wrath on Icecrown-A are pushing towards Illidan, and they want a few more to help out. They ask that you have a start on T5 or experience in both SSC and TK.
- Dreamscape of EU Draenor is recruiting all levels and classes, especially 60+.
- DragonChow of Baelgun-A (winner of this week's Best Guild Name award) is recruiting friendly players 18+ of all levels for "occasional goofiness and mockery." I hear their moonkin GM has a penchant for falling into water.
- Band of Thorns on Vek'nilash, is recruiting a few good raiders for Karazhan and beyond.
- My Other Mount is Tauren (which almost got BGN this week-- better luck next time) on Aerie Peak-A, is recruiting fun, dedicated yet time-constrained adults for Gruul's and beyond.
Filed under: Guilds, Instances, Humor, Raiding, Guildwatch
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Sophey Sep 12th 2007 2:45AM
Our Paladin tank regularly MT's Magtheridon and holds Void Reaver three times as long as the warriors.
Brass Sep 12th 2007 2:53AM
Paladin tanks are awesome, it takes really good gear for them to be good, but once they get it, thier limitations boil down to simply having lower HP than a warrior or druid. but they have great mitigation, they can become uncrushable, no other class can truly say that. we have a paladin who tanks everything in KZ weekly, and i've gotten to the point where i more or less refuse to do heroics without a paly tank.
he has tanked Gruul. i don't recomend a paly tank for gruul unless you can kill the big guy before grow 12, simply because of thier lower HP.
wel also use him alot in SSC, he is essential to morogrim tidewalker, and makes quick work of Hydross' adds, as well as Lurker.
paladin threat generation is heads and shoulders above other classes, our prot paly is the only tank i can really open up with as an elemental shaman, without fear of pulling agro, it makes for fast clean kills.
im not going to sit here and say paladins are the best tanks, because they aren't in most situations. but they are very good, and while they will not be replacing warriors and druids anytime soon, our prot paly will continue to be a vital part of our raid.
Geth Sep 12th 2007 3:05AM
Go raid or 5man sometime as a shadowpriest... you'll definitely come to appreciate a paladin tank over all other tanks ;)
Rich Sep 12th 2007 3:15AM
One of our MTs is a Paladin, he tanked Tidewalker tonight. :)
Andrew Herron Sep 12th 2007 3:18AM
I ran Kara last week with a pally MT the entire run, and a feral druid OT on his first ever Kara run. No problems with the tanks at all.
Andrew Herron Sep 12th 2007 3:19AM
wait... I lie, the druid was MT on maiden (obviously).
jaxson_bateman Sep 12th 2007 3:40AM
1. Paladin's are by far the best at holding AoE aggro. Consecration absolutely owns anything that druid and warr tanks have to offer (well, except their AoE taunts which have long cooldowns and only hold aggro for a short while ^^).
2. Paladin threat scales very well with spell power. When you only have a few epics and focusing on becoming uncrushable and uncrittable it's hard to get more than about 300 spell dmg (not incl. Judgement of the Crusader). But after you've hit those caps and are free to get a bit more spell dmg, the threat begins to increase quite significantly.
3. I can't confirm this, but from what I understand Paladins have longer period of being uncrushable due to the number of charges on Improved Holy Shield as opposed to Shield Block.
4. Where the paladin falls to Warrs and Druids is stamina. With so mana stats to fill out (stam, int, spell power, def (and mitigation), and a lower base health pool than those other 2 classes, it takes a lot to get a pally up to their level. A paladin will almost always have less stamina than an equally geared warrior. HOWEVER, they do have talents which effectively increase their health pool - the main one being Ardent Defender, which reduces damage taken by up to 30% when you're below 35% health. That's a lot of mitigation when combined with armor content and holy shield. Of course, hopefully your healers don't let you get down that far too often.
5. Paladin threat is mainly caused by DAMAGE. As such, it is common to see paladin's racking up large amounts of damage on the meters as, being the tank, they don't need to worry about pulling aggro - only losing it. Plenty of times you'll hear about pally tanks topping the dps charts in 5 mans.
6. Spiritual Attunement works pretty much like reverse rage - but the bar starts off full. You can build tonnes of threat at the start of fights, and provided you don't mitigate TOO much damage (thus not enabling enough healing) the bar should stay pretty full. Having a shadow priest in the group effectively increases the tankadin's tps by a huge amount due to the mana battery effect (straight up mana refunds and mana refunds from healing).
And I'm sure there's more. But the tankadin is an under-appreciated tank choice. For main tanking, especially with raid bosses, a warrior is almost always the first choice. But for off-tanking, and for certain bosses, the tankadin is a pro choice.
diavosh Sep 12th 2007 3:49AM
Get real, this is old stuff.
I pally tanked the prince in blues ages ago. He is a fast hitter and blows away a warrior's block charges.
You really should't be writing articles like this until you l2p - sorry but it had to be said.
Leggend Sep 12th 2007 4:02AM
Someone get this guy the video of the paladin tanking Vashj, Leo, and other 25-man bosses.
diavosh Sep 12th 2007 4:08AM
Linadillar has some nicely produced movies like that.
JP Sep 12th 2007 4:24AM
Paladins do make great tanks, but when releasing a "proof of ..." video it'd be a great idea to possibly show the tank in something other than a quick run-by. Or hell even have the paladin video the fight themselves, the only hint I saw of a Paladin in that raid was the Greater Blessing of Wisdom sitting near the minimap.
Lucius Sep 12th 2007 4:50AM
Here's how raid tanking works. 90% of fights it doesn't matter who tanks, warrior, pally or druid. The other 10% are usually doable with any but favor one. Warriors are can spell reflect and have a few specific tanking skills like last stand/shield wall, druids can absorb big hits, pallies laugh off mobs who chain crush warriors because of their attack speed chewing warrior block charges and tank 20+ mobs at a time with ease.
But by the sounds of it you'll never 'see one for yourself' because you refuse to open your eyes and look. The viewable evidence has been available since week 1 of TBC when guilds started clearing kara. Now you can get anything from MTing Vasjh to clearing Hyjal/BT.
Wulfhere Sep 12th 2007 4:55AM
So in other words, pallies need to be nerfed down to druid/warrior levels?
I'm glad to hear you all saying it. Here's hoping your wishes come true.
Khilly Sep 12th 2007 5:54AM
This is my guild's MT. Cleared all of Kara with him. (With a Warr OT for Netherspite and depending on the availabllity of a dwarf priest, Nightbane too)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Suramar&n=Wilhem
Right now we are just waiting for Zul'Aman to come out =)
Dan Sep 12th 2007 6:01AM
What's the big deal about a paladin tank? In my RG, the pally tanks most things - he's great on trash, and has no problem with Prince. I don't see why he would have. I bring my prot warrior as a trash off-tank and for Maiden and Nightbane fights, but apart from that, he can do most things I can do (and multi-mob pulls he does better).
Donar Sep 12th 2007 7:46AM
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=39GDHZD4
Here is the link to video showing a Palli tanking Leotheras filmed by a warlock. Palli Tanking works perfectly fine. But in the end it always comes down to skilled player > class and to a certain degree equip.
Adese Sep 12th 2007 9:58AM
@7
It takes more work for a Paladin to be uncrushable than a Warrior, but once we get to that point we (in general) take less damage than a Warrior would.
If a Paladin has 102.4% avoidance (dodge, parry, block and to-be-missed) with Holy Shield up, they are uncrushable. A warrior can achieve this by having 102.4% avoidance with Shield Block up. The main difference is that, with Improved Holy Shield, the Paladin has 10 Holy Shield charges, while the most that a Warrior can have is 2 Shield Block charges.
It is much, much more likely for the Shield Block charges to be used up than for the Holy Shield charges to be used up (especially on most raid bosses). Therefore, once the Paladin is uncrushable, the only way that they could take a crushing blow is due to lag (Holy Shield lasts 10 seconds and has a 10 second cooldown - there is a short period of time where, due to server and human lag, Holy Shield is down).
Wallace Sep 12th 2007 8:31AM
Pally is easy mode tanking. No skill involved like a warrior.
Winchester Sep 12th 2007 8:37AM
I'm the maintank in Leftovers on Shattered Halls.
I tank everything in Karazhan (even maiden omgs).
I tank everything without offtank except for:
Attumen, Moroes, Romulo & Julianne, Netherspite.
Stewards in moroes's room and Skeletal ushers infront of opera.
The rest i tank solo and without any crowd control at all.
I even cleanse people while tanking, like shadow word pain on prince, or holy fire on maiden.
I can buff, DI and Rez..
Last week we 9manned Nightbane and were without fearward for the first time ever.
Ana Sep 12th 2007 8:39AM
Like 16, I tend to see warriors as kind of the "out of the box" tank. You don't need to do all that much extra configuration to tank decently - a lot of warrior plate is itemized well for the class. Paladins, on the other hand, have such poorly itemized gear for raid tanking that they need to do a lot of their homework up front.