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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsShould Oceanic realms get their own progression?
by Mike Schramm 
Sep 17th 2007 at 4:00PM
MMO Champion's got the tip on the Oceanic first kill of Illidan by a guild called Not Steamboat on Aman'thul. I'd actually call Archimonde the last boss in the game right now, although for the current Burning Crusade storyline, Bou is right-- Illidan is it, at least until the Sunwell.But the kill brings up another interesting point with regards to Oceanic players. While they're often grouped with the US servers (unlike the EU or Asian servers, Oceanic and US servers are in the same place and subject to the same maintenance), are Oceanic servers that different that we should acknowledge a kill like this? This isn't like in China, where Burning Crusade just released. These Oceanic players have had access to Illidan just as long as an EU guild like Nihilum has. Why should we care if they kill Illidan? Sure, it's an accomplishment (just like every boss kill is, no matter how small or big), but is there even such a thing as "Oceanic first"?
Sanctus emailed Boubouille to argue just that and say that Oceanic servers should be considered separate, in terms of progression, from US and EU servers. He says that Oceanic players have to deal with the aforementioned maintenance schedule problems, as well as huge lag. So what do you think? If this issue of Oceanic progression as compared to the rest of the world hadn't come up, I wouldn't have mentioned this Illidan kill at all-- in my opinion, there is no such thing as "Oceanic first," because Oceanic players play on, more or less, the same realms that US players do. So should Oceanic realms be considered separately when comparing guild progression? Or should they be held to the same schedule and timeline for "first kills" as the rest of us?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Instances, Raiding, The Burning Crusade, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
sthealth Sep 17th 2007 8:32PM
interesting read. as a member of 'not steamboat' heres my 2 cents:
no one could care less that we killed illidan. the issue being raised is how players on oceanic servers are disadvantaged when compared to US and EU players. this therefore a suggestion to have oceanic servers located in oceanic regions like Australia.
here are a few points:
- server resets during "oceanic" prime-time raiding hours on a tuesday; no oceanic guild can therefore raid on tuesdays
- subscription are paid in US Dollars which vary each month due to fluctuations in the dollar. we also incur currency conversion fees which also appear on the bank statement.
- server stability issues - oceanic servers are located in the US (for cost cutting reasons); typical australian ping is around 400, a good ping is 300. in addition, theres is always a timely server crash at 7:42pm every night on the dot
The best way to illustrate the difference between a 500ms ping and one less then 100 is to relate it back to the old counterstrike days. The difference between joining a server close to home, compared to joining an internationally hosted server (every ones done that, right?) is the difference between coming first or mid-field on the ladder.
donis Sep 17th 2007 9:37PM
in my opinion this is definitily a great achievement to NSB and the oceanic region as they are confronted each day with many disadvantages compared to the rest of the wow community as mentioned in the previous posts such as latency issues and server maintenance during prime time game time.
oceanic realms should have their own unique representation just like the US and EU servers, for reasons not only relating to latency and downtime, but also the oceanic player base is a strong factor as to why oceanic guilds are not in sync with the other premier guilds such as Nihilum in achieving world firsts.
Similarly enough for those of you who follow the Australian soccer world cup qualifying, the Australian soccer federation has been fighting to achieve an oceanic region for qualifying for the world cup ,but instead Australia and fellow oceanic countries are placed with South American football teams. keep fighting Australia!
Fletch Sep 17th 2007 9:49PM
Oceanic players should be forced to play on the Asian servers.
gt Sep 17th 2007 9:57PM
Wow. Thats a pretty narrow minded point of view Mike. w2g in showing the Aussies that all Americans really are jerks. You report EU and US firsts as separate dont you? Is it the server farms or is it the regional division that makes you do so? The only reason Oceania doesn't have its own dedicated server farm is because Blizzard is cheap and Oceania is used to being screwed over by video game companies. I play everyday with at least 400ms and can never play Tuesday nights without some issue. Its a pretty darn different atmosphere to play WoW in. Why don't you come try it sometime?
Tyy Sep 17th 2007 10:17PM
I tried playing on a Chinese server and the cost and ping was fantastic...only issue for me was the language.
I wish Blizzard would physically host some "English" servers in Asia as well.
If I want to play, I am forced to play on an US server with horrible lag...usually between 500ms and 800ms. Resulting in roughly 15-30% less damage as a mage and a raid group wondering, what I am doing besides twiddling my thumbs.
And "yes", connections to Europe are even worse. I tried that too.
Therefore I think, it is worth mentioning for the west of the pacific based people and I agree with north american folks that they couldn't care less.
Ian Sep 17th 2007 10:21PM
Oceanic are like that Quatto guy from Total Recall. The Conjoined little brother of the US Servers. It’s such a shame we’re in a situation where we’re getting branded as the dependant freaks US severs rather a community in it self.
We want to be Independant, articals highlighting how our achevements are meaningless so long as we're attached to the US only add weight to our argument frankly.
WatcherZero Sep 17th 2007 11:35PM
Even within europe connections vary. There appears to be (Blizz EU never says where hosting centres are unlike US) two french one belgian and one german hosting centre. I live in the UK and my realms hosted in Paris and I have 150-200Ms usually, it can be as bad as 350ms. So for ozzies to get 400ms to US I would say count your blessings.
icy Sep 18th 2007 1:49AM
You americans are so self-centred.
Nuff said.
Ipew Sep 18th 2007 1:59AM
I'm sadly an Australian stuck playing on a US server (500ms latency ftl) but I'm proud of NSB for their work. Congrats guys.
Also, one of the other things I'd like to point out is of the 8 Oceanic realms, 5 are in the range of high to full, and the others are medium to full. So basically most of the realms can have queue times during afternoon/night times and weekends, making raid organization a tad difficult.
alokoc Sep 18th 2007 3:54AM
LOL sanctus is a noob. I remember when the BC was out, he and his brother took shifts to level his priest to 70 so he can be #1. Miserable kid with no life, gets money from centrelink coz he plays wow with no job, sad case.
timbre, another noobadin. she has nax epics on her, i beat her with my hunter in greens, she cried and she did not duel me anymore. prolly lives in asia.
mill, another loser.
the rest is ok, i guess.
tool03 Sep 18th 2007 4:23AM
Apparently I'm missing something here...
As an American living in Japan my latency is normally 300-700 and its really no problem. Unless it's just so bad that I cant even tell the difference. Although the distance from Japan to US isn't the same as Australia to the US (thus I never see those 1000+).
But uh, why not count Oceanic firsts? If you can count EU and US first then why not Oceanic?
I say good job mates.
Daedrius Sep 19th 2007 4:27AM
Grats NSB, you guys deserve the recognition.
Daedrius (ex-KAOS on Aman'thul)
Fraufrau Sep 18th 2007 4:59AM
Consider that the US and EU based guilds get a full 7 nights a week to raid without the concern over maintenance - thats a big advantage no matter how u look at it.
Would this guild have beaten Nihilum to Illidan with an extra day a week to raid? No, obviously not BUT they have beaten every other Oceanic based guild who suffers from the same handicaps to illidan so yea it deserves a mention.
Why dont Blizz hav SE Asian/Australian based servers for oceanic players? I hav nfi because as I see it they would be financially viable and had a thread on this on the Frostmourne forums and all we could figure is - Blizz dont care because we pay anyway.
Grats to NSB for their Oceanic first :) Low twos to u elitist bastards who try to deny those their glory or tell players in Oceanic zones to l2p while u run around with a 50s ping - try a 500ms ping on a good day and see how good u are (it does and can cause wipes in raids)
BenMS Sep 18th 2007 5:10AM
Melbourne, Victoria here. We all know Blizzard will never put servers in Australia/NZ - they are already making enough money as it is, and spending the 2-3 million required to have a server farm/staff/support crew in order to boost Aus/NZ numbers by maybe 10-15% simply isn't worth it. As such, with the special challenges involved, I think rating this as an Oceanic first is warranted.
Also, to all the citizens of the USA who bitch and moan about not being able to PvP with ~100ms latency - well, that's 400-500 better than us on average, and 700-800 better on a bad day. Cry me a river.
StoNe Sep 18th 2007 7:31AM
To all you US server peeps that go "who cares?" Umm...we do, and until you play an online game on a server that is based on the other side of the world, you would care too.
PS: if you ever move to Asia/Pacific and play WoW...try not to roll a caster is all I'm saying. Fire blast is sometimes an 11 second cast followed by relogging to a corpse run.
PPS: I'm not really complaining, I still like the game because I'm used to playing it on 400-900 latency.
Phyx Sep 18th 2007 10:39AM
First of all, i play from oceania (australia) and have since open beta... let me tell you this..
pre bc during the naxx race death and taxes said on an interview on wow radio (www.wcradio.com) when asked the question what held them up from getting the world first four horsemen kill they said they had lots of server issues and alot of their members had to put up with latency over 100MS
ok.. lets break this down
they were complaining about 100ms.. we consider anything below 400ms amazing service, and 800+ is average so let me ask you this... if a high end guild on the brink of bleeding edge content states that pings over 100ms held them up from attaining a world first 4h kill (they got it in the end) then why cant people putting up with 8X that latency be considered their own reigon let alone having a 6 day raiding week at the most..
----
Asphyxiate 70 troll hunter (Barthilas Oceanic)
Phyx 70 tauren druid (Barthilas Oceanic)
Alex 60 tauren druid (Dath'remar Oceanic)
Sazarah 60 human warlock (Frostmourne Oceanic)
John Sep 18th 2007 10:38AM
1. Don't whine about being a caster with high ping. Get quartz.
2. To the OP: Why the hell would you consider archimonde the last boss before Sunwell? Have you raided at all? Do you even know what you are talking about?
Memzer Sep 18th 2007 12:39PM
Congratulations on the kill!
They finished the Black Temple, that's a huge accomplishment in itself. Blizzard has already commented that the average level of progression is still around Karazhan.
Nihilum got the world first and most raiders know of them because of this. Most people however don't know the names of any other guild to do it - the second guild, or the tenth guild - and they don't really care.
I play on an oceanic realm. Try playing with a 400-500ms ping. Watch your party/guild/general/trade channels fill every night at 8pm with 'omg lag... ohh it's 8pm', followed by mass disconnects and cries of 'I'm stuck on the loading screen, a character with my name already exists'.
Obviously these problems do exist on other realms and I don't mean to belittle their woes, but you're kidding yourself if you think half a second of lag and major server instability issues are not going to hinder gameplay.
The question you should be asking is whether or not there is such a thing as a US first. If you're going to group progression simply based on location, then absolutely EU, US, and Oceanic realms should have their own progression tracking.
Br_other Sep 19th 2007 5:00AM
They are my heroes!
Playing constantly with 400ms and have managed to kill him - incredible.