Shifting Perspectives: PvP is hard
by David Bowers 
Sep 25th 2007 at 4:15PM
Every class has its pet PvP problems. Some whine a lot about how many times they've been nerfed; others just whine about warlocks. But most of these classes have a pretty clear idea about what they're supposed to be doing. Sometimes they whine that they don't like "what they're supposed to be doing" and would rather remake their class into something completely different -- but that's another issue.
Here's the generally accepted conventional wisdom on what each class is supposed to be doing in PvP:
- Rogues: Kick buttocks (by surprise)
- Hunters: Shoot buttocks (from a distance)
- Mages: Freeze and burn buttocks (and sheep)
- Priest: Melt buttocks (or heal)
- Shaman: Shock buttocks, drop totems (and heal)
- Warrior: Charge in and smash buttocks (with a healer in tow)
- Paladin: Stay alive (and heal)
- Warlock: Laugh maniacally (a lot)
- Druid: Mix and match your healing, damage absorption, and buttocks-destruction by being in the right form at the right time to do the right thing that needs to be done based on whoever is around you and whatever is going on at any given moment (lol wut?)
I realize I'm oversimplifying a bit, but from my experience of playing other classes as well as watching them, I really get a sense that most other classes have it a lot simpler -- not necessarily "better" -- just more straightforward and intuitive.
The problem of druid PvP is one in which you sometimes feel less like one class and more like a shifter between three or four mini-classes. Each of these mini-classes (bear, cat, and caster) mimics but does not copy the qualities and abilities of its parent class (warriors, rogues, and priests). The mini-classes are close enough to their parent classes that you could say "cat form is like a rogue, but more limited" but not close enough that you could say "when in cat form, do as rogues do." You don't have the various tools of manipulation, control and escape that rogues have -- instead you have these other mini-classes to fall back to. So if you find yourself with a problem in a fight, you have to completely switch gears from rogue-like thinking (a.k.a. "Buttocks kicking by surprise") to warrior thinking or priest thinking -- only then again, not really, since you're not really a warrior or a priest, and you can't forget you still have this mini-rogue class to fall back on.
It's boggling to try and wrap your instincts around this. Oh it's one thing to talk about it -- sure let's talk about world peace and education reform too -- but it's another thing to actually go out there and do it. There's so much you have to understand at the tips of your fingers as well as in the front of your mind, with that kind of big-picture awareness of everything that's going on around you, that fighting other players as a feral druid is undoubtedly difficult. This is not your most-easily-mastered-class, for sure.
Ay, there's the rub. I said feral druid, didn't I? Indeed, restoration and balance druids tend to have yet again two totally different sets of issues involved. I hear that restoration druids can do very very well in the arenas and other forms of PvP -- in a supporting role of course. And as for moonkins, you'll have to ask Dan when he comes back to Shifting Perspectives next week, since he's the most "balanced" druid of the two of us. Still, if I'm not totally mistaken here -- both balance and restoration druids basically get things simplified quite a bit. They have their tree of life or moonkin forms to go into and out of, and they don't rely on bear form or cat form so much. So, they're not really dealing with the three-classes-in-one problem that the feral druid must face in PvP.
Here we have the very crux of the issue. Feral druids are alone in this game with a particular set of abilities and limitations that is at once their greatest strength and their greatest weakness. That's to say, feral druids are the only ones with three sets of different abilities each geared towards different goals and varying situations. This is indeed something very strong to bring to your team -- yet at the same time, understanding the proper use of these three sets of abilities can be so very complicated as to bar newcomers from ever really understanding it.
As one experienced druid puts it,
While I have no doubt that it _is_ possible to perform well as a feral druid in any sort of arena team provided a solid class combination on your team, the reality is that you have to be so far and away superior at playing your class, only to make average. Then to surpass average and perform at an elite level, well, lets just say reaction time, class combination, and experience still won't be enough.Does that sound bleak? Yep. I'd like to tell Blizzard where all the problems are, and how exactly they should fix it... except that the problem is sort of built into the class itself, isn't it? How do you balance a three-classes-in-one class against all the other classes that are so much more straightforward in their aims and methods, without either overshadowing those other classes or ending up useless by comparison with them?
Surely some of you reading this article are really excellent feral druid PvPers, and you are already preparing a response in your mind that will illumine us about the proper feral druid PvP attitude. Please feel free to share.
To get you started, let me share with you what one poster to the druid pvp forum at pvpscene.com said. According to "Doltz," the key to success as a feral druid is actually in resilience gear, which you can start out getting from gaining honor in the battlegrounds. Resilience can help mitigate a lot of that burst damage that leaves you thinking, "What in the world? How did I just die?" and ends your battle before it even started. It can give you the beginning of that protective edge you need to start actually living long enough to get meaningful learning out of your PvP practice, rather than feeling as though feral druid PvP is only slightly better than hitting yourself on the finger with a large hammer.
So, there is hope for the more resilient amongst us. PvPing as a feral druid may just be one of the hardest things you can do in WoW, but if you're dedicated and persevering, perhaps you can climb that mountain and achieve what others could not.
Filed under: (Druid) Shifting Perspectives, Druid, PvP, Classes
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Xixikoozu Sep 25th 2007 5:52PM
Thanks for making me feel a bit better... kinda.. or more hopeless... hrm.
When starting out on a new Arena team, the first question I always ask is:
"so what do you want me to help with?"
..and the answer tends to be:
"I dunno, do whatever you think is best".
Ugh.
The only truly effective times I've had in Arena was when I was on cyclone/root/off-dps duty in a group with 2 Pallies and sexy dps...
...and when I would stand out front with a healing weapon pretending to be a healer, and cast a few HoTs at the start to draw fire, then once they all jumped at me, switch into Bear form and soak up damage while teammates burned down someone. That was always my fav.
I've heard Druid/Warlock 2v2 is a sexy team.
Hrm.
oshin Sep 25th 2007 5:39PM
I just came away from doing 2v2 with a disc priest as a balance druid, to say it was frustrating is an understatement. We didnt have the nuking power to take out other teams, or the regen to outlast them.
On the other hand, i quite enjoy 3v3, cycling my crowd control is really powerful against some teams (rooting a warrior cycloning the healer)
My feeling is that we could use an instant nuke, but what would really make the difference would be re itemizing the gear, boomkin gear should really have far less mp5s and way more spell crit ( i used to have 22% in greens, in blue/some pvp epics its down to 15%).
Looking at the feral gear it could use alot less +healing, I can see some of the benefit, but why not plough most of it into more dps ? (I`ll probably get pooned by an arena druid here telling me why)
Remove curse and poison in boomkin form would be nice too, and natures swiftness while your at it.
Mainstay Sep 25th 2007 6:12PM
The trouble with Feral Druids in the Arena, is that the Arena is all about dishing out massive amounts of damage faster then the other team. Traditionally in pvp I've found the best way to deal with someone is to dot the crap out of them with cat bleeds and then change into a bear and beat the rest out of them.
2nd problem, we've got no effective spell interrupts. Maim (10 second cooldown and requires at least one combo point) is good for stopping a spell, but once someone hits the guy, he can start casting again. Bash (1 minute cooldown) I think the cooldown says enough honestly.
dezrtfox Sep 25th 2007 8:07PM
The most important thing to do as a feral druid is know what role will be your main focus during a match. Are you going to:
* Heal
* DPS
* Crowd control
Of course you always do a mixture of these, but you should always be focused on your main job. Here are some examples I hope illustrate my point.
If you are doing 2v2 with a mortal strike warrior, your main job is to heal the warrior. You may cyclone the other teams healer or double team the toon the warrior is on, but you must keep the warrior up. Your best chance to win is when the warrior does all the dps and keeps the MS debuff up. If the other teams decides the healer must die and focuses on you, great. Shift to bear, soak up the damage and more than likely, one member of the other team will be dead in 2 or 3 swings. Bash, cyclone, tranquility. Your team is at full health and ready to do an end zone dance.
In 5v5, we often team the druid with a warrior or rogue to double team a clothie. Sometimes I start in Cat, but you can also start in bear so you can draw fire with your superior armor and health and use feral charge to close on your target. Then stun the target with bash, switch to cat and load up the damage. When dpsing, shifting gives you distinct advantages against mages for example. You can shift out of frost nova, unload a moonfire then shift to cat or bear close to melee distance. Dish out the damage. Rinse, repeat.
Finally, my arena teams have been short of mages or warlocks for crowd control. So early on Paladins gave us fits. It takes too much effort to kill them, and they have too much mana to ignore. So now we put a druid on em and take em out of the match. Feral charge, bash. Then cyclone a few times. That's 15 seconds of CC. Then go cat form. The 1.0 second attack speeds greatly reduces the speed at which they cast. Throw in a few long duration maims and then you can cyclone again. If they bubble, you just start healing your team. If you have good DPS, the first 15 seconds of CC should be enough to take out one of the opposition.
So I guess my point is, don't focus on the form (which I did at first). Don't limit yourself to "I'm gonna go cat and dps." Focus on what you need to do and use all forms to achieve that goal.
Arnold Sep 26th 2007 1:04AM
Not that anybody really cares, seeing as this post is already at the bottom of the main page and has only 4 comments, but thanks for posting such a concise statement of everything that is wrong with our class for PvP. Playing a 70 feral druid as my main, I truly feel your pain, and suffer with you.
Having extensively PvPed on this and on most other classes (besides Shaman), I definitely feel that we are getting beat with the gimp-stick. I have played all the "classic-easy-mode" PvP classes like rogue and lock in the BGs (not at 70 level, but it honestly isn't that different from one bracket to the next--feral druids get screwed all the time), and if you compare playing them to playing a druid, it is truly EZ-street all the way. E.g. playing on my wife's 70 shadow priest or on my lock, I just dot-tab my way to the top of the damage chart and the top of the kill list. Piece of cake. But on my druid--oh, how you love me when I keep aggro when tanking an instance or heal your skinny little mage behind when you need some "heels" for your outdoor lvl 72 elite. But when you see me in a BG or an arena, its instantly "lol, drood, instagib HK for me!" Ok, to be fair, it is not always an instagib nor an instant honor kill, but even having played my druid extensively in the BGs and a fair amount (though not tons, I will readily admit) in the arenas, you'll still win 80% of the time. Its not the gear, and don't tell me to l2p, because I've played your class, and I have been on easy street right along side you, stunlocking and dot-fearing that poor other sucker druid to death.
But it still is kind of frustrating when you spend so freakin' much time leveling your character to level 70 and still getting wailed on by some pimply faced lock merely because I decided to play a druid when I was new to WoW (and enjoy playing a druid in PvE very much).
So, am I bitter? Probably. Oh well. Not that it matters, because it really doesn't. But unless Blizz changes something fundamental about the game, which they most likely won't, then things won't change from now to when we have lvl 80, 90 or beyond. Druids are just going to continue being the awkward step child of WoW. At least in PvP.
uberdrood Jul 24th 2008 2:26PM
umm while druids are the hardest class to play, when you're fast acting and do it right you have the best potential and will come out on top
MENNONH Sep 26th 2007 1:48AM
Thank you for the great article. I started as a druid, went feral when feral was booed and people yelled "Heal me Drood." The problem I have always had is also, as you say, a blessing. I can do some "ok" healing when needed as backup, I can dps "ok" or I can tank (pretty well now.) However, as healing I am low on the list as feral. DPS I can't compete with anyone, and tanking...well..they seem to want to nerf that every patch they get a chance. (hrmm...swipe nerf?, where are my multi-mob agro holders)
In pvp, its another story.. caster druids seem to dominate in pvp. However, as a feral I will never get a 1v1 situation, its always 1v4 or 5 in a battleground, completely opposite of how pvp is generally for my other characters.
Jormundgard Sep 26th 2007 5:05AM
I don't think resilience is as important as you suggest. I have a feral druid and I can do a good job staying alive. Bears are hard for anyone to kill. But I cannot burst damage like other classes can. That's fine, it means I'm better at staying alive, and it helps in 3v3 because I'm more likely to get ignored. When they don't ignore me, they're usually wasting valuable time and taking a big risk. But if I'm the primary dps in a 2v2, with a healer, then it is always a very long match, and it often doesn't end well.
Buuty Sep 26th 2007 7:25AM
Wait a minute, druids complaining? Get a grip on reality, druids are the most powerful PvP class after easy-mode Warlocks.
Draketh Sep 26th 2007 7:37AM
The problem as I see it with the druid class is especially at end game we have to specialize so much into one of our forms. Once you factor in gear and talents you may be a very good healer, tank, or dps'er.
However, compared to the parent classes you will lack a lot of utility spells. I think Blizzard has been adding to druid utility, however it is split up into our forms. So, our access is limited by mana and time. Not only that, if I am a balance druid and I find I need to go cat form to better take on a mage, I'm really really gimped cause I don't have the talents nor gear to back it up. But, if I try and match him as a caster I risk counter-spell and having most of my abilities locked out.
It's not like this for other classes. My hunter for instance is beast master. So, while I lack the talents for traps that a survalist has, throwing done a snake trap against a mage is every bit as effective.
There are probably many things that could be done like add more utility to forms or true hybrid armor (not separate sets). Something does need to be done, and when it final is done Blizzard needs to resist the nerf posts cause people miss their free HK (a la 2.x patch bear damage nerf).
Tom McFadden Sep 27th 2007 3:23PM
Here is how I look at it:
If you want to DPS like a warrior, roll one.
If you want to DPS like a rogue, roll one.
If you want to DPS like a mage, roll one.
If you want to Heal like a priest, roll one.
If you want to be able to do a little of everything because you can't decide (or don't want to be locked into something) then stick with your druid.
In EQ druids were one of the most powerful classes at the start. They did everything and did it well. Blizz made it clear that druids would not be that way. They shouldn't be. If they were why would you roll anything else, except maybe a warlock.
In summary, Druids are like a box of chocolates (you know the rest). When going up against a druid you have to be prepared for anything and everything. What you lack in burst dps you make up for in survivability. A druid in arenas is a most troublesome class and in combination with other classes makes for a VERY strong team. A druid should really never expect to REPLACE any class abilitiy for ability. Then again, no class can replace a druid either. I wish my warrior could heal, cyclone, stun at will, shift out of snares and roots, etc.. etc..
BTW... a resto druid with a SL warlock in 2v2 is probably the most OP combo I've ever seen.
h8rain Sep 28th 2007 2:45PM
I agree with a lot of the other people, that druids are obliviously not as good as what they mimic, and alone they will probably lose in PVP. When you combine other classes with the druid, then you start to have a powerful team.
War1ockplayer Sep 28th 2007 7:57PM
at 8, are you fricking seriuos? EZ-mode locks? what the heck is youre problem, i will agree warlocks are good at pvp, better then most but easy? no they take at least a haf a brain to grind, and i gauretee you if every class in the game had the grinding ability of a lock, at least 1/4 of the players couldn't grind that well.plus the warlock nerf will start soon. And Druids, the best at pvp? sure thier good but they have more than 5 buttons to push unlike you, they also learned to play thier class. Plus there good ability in pvp is deserved, try playing a class you roled to be DPS/tank and bieng told to respec get new gear so you can heal.
Finlome Sep 29th 2007 3:26PM
I don't think the message of the article is that druids are either better or worse than any other class. It's not a question of how "good" they are, because that is too subjective. There are just too many variables to consider when making an argument in regards to value or worth.
The article IS saying, however, that the druid class may require a bit more brain power. If a mage wants to survive, for example, they pop a mana shield or ice block and that's it. If a druid wants to survive, they turn into a bear -and consequently- have a whole new set of abilities to think about. The same is true in a variety of other comparisons between the druid class and "parent" classes. Now, there may be more intricate scenarios in which you could argue a druid would survive without turning into a bear but that, in turn, supports the argument that the class is built around intricacies and complicated tactics.
To me, the moment Blizzard decided to give each "mini class" of a druid its own tree was the moment that they started this whole argument. If the druid was truly supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades, then Blizzard should have given dps casting, healing, melee dps, and tanking talents to all three talent trees - albeit, in differing arrangements and alternating strengths/weaknesses. That way, no matter which tree you were in, (or which form you were in) you would still be a jack-of-all-trades. Just different variations of it.
Instead, each tree is trying to focus too heavily on making the druid less versatile and more streamlined to be viable in competition with each "parent class" and, at the same time, maintain its versatility by default as its primary function.
Barb Dybwad Oct 16th 2007 6:50PM
i'm happy to see this post was properly tagged with "buttocks-destruction" -- keep up the good work. :)