More balances coming to AV
by Mike Schramm 
Sep 28th 2007 at 4:00PM
After not playing in there for what probably has been months, I found myself back in Alterac Valley this morning-- with the recent AFK changes, things have just gotten so much more active in there, and considering this weekend is an AV honor weekend, there will probably be a lot of blood shed beween the Frostwolves and the Stormpikes. Of course, just because players are active doesn't mean they know what they're doing-- we had twenty people standing around the SP GY flag this morning, and I was the only one actually clicking on it to capture. Oh well.And now that players are playing in there, it's time to look at the other problems in AV-- map balance and fun factor. That bridge is still an issue when Alliance actually sit down and guard it, but the past few matches I've seen have a completely other problem-- it's just a zerg race. Sure, some folks stay on D at times, but really it's just a matter of which side gets to the other boss first.
And Neth says changes are coming, specifically that Blizz wants to make AV "more fun" and "more balanced." She can't say what that means yet, but I'd be very surprised if the "more balanced" part didn't involve a little map adjusting. As for the "more fun," who knows? Personally I'd like (and I know some of you share this sentiment) to see additions in terms of the PvE stuff, but Blizzard has learned a lot since they first created AV. Instead of the summoning quests and the NPCs entering the action, I'm guessing there'll be things like zone-wide buffs and other Halaa-like happenings.
But as always, we'll see. In the meantime, who wants to go get Balinda with me?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Nathan Sep 28th 2007 4:07PM
I just hit 51 and went into Alterac Valley for the first time ever. I can safely say I have no idea what was going on.
Slayblaze Sep 28th 2007 4:16PM
I know people always mention the alliance bridge as on overly-defendable choke point, but if horde would just defend *their* choke point (the building you have to get through to get the the little hill in front of the two towers) it would even things up almost perfectly. In fact I believe horde have an advantage when comparing the faction's choke points, as the two little doorways you have to get through are easier to defend than the much wider alliance bridge. Plus horde could attack from 1 extra position, the 3rd doorway from their graveyard.
Another advantage is the hill with the 2 towers...if the top of the hill is actually defended, there is a big height advantage as well. It's much harder for alliance to fight in that spot from a lower position mainly because it is harder to target while looking up.
Their are some advantages to the alliance base too, but I really think the horde's advantages outweigh them - yet all I hear is how the alliance base should be nerfed..!?
Epiny Sep 28th 2007 4:32PM
The nerf issue people have with the Horde base is that the alliance can jump a wall and bypass our choke.
However it has been way fun since 2.2 Horde playing and winning pick up AV's!
gozerthagozerian Sep 28th 2007 4:23PM
The biggest problems I've noticed have always been:
1) Warriors unwilling to tank on Marshalls and Vann when there are no other classes in the zerg capable of tanking.
2) Priests insisting on doing DPS when there are no healers.
3) Paladins trying to DPS when there are no healers or tanks.
With an organized group that has tanks and healers, you win. When people refuse to contribute to help the raid (ie Shadow Priests insisting Enhancement Shaman should heal, despite the vast gulf in +Int and +Spell between the two classes/specs) you seriously jeopardize your chances of winning and getting bonus honor.
innajunglestylee Sep 28th 2007 4:27PM
The bridge is subject to fire from your archers while we fight on it, our LOS choke point keeps alliance players safe from that form of damage.
FW GY is on an open plain and subject to attack from numerous directions, SP GY is attacked from one of three directions (really one of one if you're most horde players).
Your cave spawn (default rez spot) encourages people to immediately drop down to SP GY, our does not encourage D at FW. This is psychological, but it's real.
Our best choke point is at Galv/IB. Every time I win in AV, it's because me and a few others will wipe alliance on Galv, then tie them up between IB Tower and IB GY for enough time for O to bludgeon their way through to SP GY and start capping towers.
I'm inclined to say the map favors Alliance, personally -- but I also play Horde and used to have to deal with 20+ AFKers per match. As it stands now, I will say that it is easier as Alliance to hold off people at SP than it is as Horde to hold them off at FW, and the design of the Alliance base is much more conducive to defense than the Horde base.
larsiezwei Sep 28th 2007 4:27PM
if your new to av just follow people and kill stuff. As for the changes coming what are they gonna do remodel the damn bridge? As a horde player that would be a big fix. Next time you log into AV you'll see a construction site full of dwarves remodeling the bridge on scaffolding...lol
Acceptable Risk Sep 28th 2007 4:30PM
The problem with Stormpike graveyard isn't the Alliance is any better at defense, it's just that it's a major bottleneck in both directions. The Horde have to go through it to get into the Alliance Base and the Alliance has to go through it to get out. Even if Alliance members don't want to be on defense, they get thrown into it anyway. It practically guarantees a confrontation there.
Compare that to the Horde's best bottleneck at Iceblood. The Horde can just run off the cliff and ride north completely bypassing the best defensive position they have.
So it's not so much as that the Allies are any better at keeping people on defense so much as that even the uncooperative zergling Allies are forced into it by the terrain.
oshin Sep 28th 2007 4:36PM
While making av more "fun" is a good thing, im certain this will mean the end of it as a place to gain masses of honor, which I wouldnt mind except it is far more balanced in the way it gives it out that the other bgs, which you can get 0 honor from playing a game. If they do make changes i hope they add in more honor features too, such as non diminishing honor on kills and lets say honor + marks for enough turn ins.
Angelus Sep 28th 2007 4:47PM
I play Alliance and I say give the Horde every advantage possible to win so they stop QQing. lol. Allow them to glitch the WMs so they get an instant win. Maybe give them 50 player cap, but dont tell anybody >.>
Seriously though: Give the horde a bridge, that makes more sense. Have orc peons dig a great swath of canyon and build a small bridge so the horde have a valid choke point too. But dont nerf the alliance bridge, I just cant envision it: "Gee, this bridge provides an excellent choke point for if the horde attack, lets make it wider and build 3 more so the horde have a chance because we so easily wtfpwn them"
matt Sep 28th 2007 5:08PM
My gripe is that horde cant get in the Ally base without being pinged by archers and NPCs yet Allies can get in AND cap the Relief Hut.
Blacksabre Sep 28th 2007 5:41PM
Guaranteed, "fun" to Blizzard means "Longer battles"..."Nerf everyone"...and "Make the NPCs more powerful".
The last time Blizzard worried about "fun" was when they ran out of punch at the GM Christmas party.
KaonNemesis Sep 28th 2007 5:56PM
Meh, the Horde only lose AV because it needs too many players and they end up with mostly pugs there. Their pre-mades rule AB and WSG constantly. I stopped playing BG's a while ago because I got so sick of the imbalance in the sides... I don't mind losing, but 95% of the time in AB/WSG is a little annoying. AV was the only thing that kept me around, but it wasn't fun winning that one all the time either.
All I'm saying is that Blizz needs to figure out a way to balance ALL the BG's a little better...
Tuberon Sep 28th 2007 5:58PM
Now that the horde can occasionally win, blizzard needs to make sure they win all the time. Otherwise, it's not balanced like the other battlegrounds.
Inferno_str1ke Sep 28th 2007 6:56PM
The only way to stop the Zerg would be to make it necessary to capture the towers. As it is, it's quicker to run to the base and pull out the Warmasters than it is to actually take each of the four towers, unless you have a very organised group that can take all 4 towers whilst still stopping the horde getting any towers. At the same time, the whole Balinda v Galvangar thing just confuses people and encourages a zerg because the first down gives honour and none afterwards. Back at 60 I seem to remember it was balanced win/loss on Bloodfeather - not played at 70 yet.
Daghol Sep 28th 2007 7:00PM
1. The AFK fix seems to have solved the winning problem. Horde won all 3 of the AV's i played in last night, and I've only won about 5 total in the good 50 to 75 I've been in to this point. Maybe AFKers were the real problem. (Although, the map does have it's disadvantages).
2. What really needs to be fixed is the great stuff you never do in AV now. In one of the games I had last night, we actually had a pilot get back to the base and we got some help. I can't even remember the last time anyone tried to do that. We actually tried to spawn our primalist too. People are actually turning in supplies and scraps for the bonuses. The games are lasting longer, so we are getting to this fun stuff. They need to lengthen the games to make them more fun. Bring back some more of the NPCs they removed. I am not looking for 14 hour AVs, but a good 1 hour AV is a blast (and I do actually load up on honor too).
digitinfinity Sep 28th 2007 7:10PM
They need to get RID of the pve elements involved, and make it a pvp battleground. I hate the fact that AV is nothing but a pve race. All the horde just run straight to the end, never defending, and if the alliance are smart enough to throw a few people on defense they win. If not, then horde may have a chance to win.
twh Sep 28th 2007 7:30PM
*insert your favorite four letter expletive here*
Does NOTHING please you Horde players? You're winning AV now because the Afkers are gone and you're STILL not satisfied?!
Cry me a fricken river.
Wait, wait, I get it. You'll only be happy when all four of the BGs are Horde controlled. And every time the Alliance wins, it'll be because they cheated, used terrain exploiting hacks, or, my personal favorite, there weren't enough Horde to 'make it fair'.
Sometimes, I wonder why I even bother to PvP anymore.
Leshrac Sep 29th 2007 2:31AM
Quit crying you Ally pu$$ies and bend over and grab your ankles, your feeble AV wins due to major choke points are coming to an end.
jaxson_bateman Sep 29th 2007 2:47AM
Are you allies for real? Honestly. Pre 2.1 we barely ever win because half our team is constantly afk in our cave. Post 2.2 we actually have a full team as it was intended we have, and now you get all upset that we're winning most of them (in my battlegroup anyway)?
It would be like fighting someone with a broken arm and beating them comprehensively, then having a sad when they beat you comprehensively once their arm has healed.
And we're totally satsified #17. It annoys us that you cry foul when all it is is that we actually have a full team to play with now (well mostly, people are coming up with creative ways to afk now, though most people I PvP with just report everyone and let combat sort out who gets the debuff and who doesn't).
gozerthagozerian Sep 29th 2007 2:57AM
The people who keep saying "Alliance always win AV" need to realize that may happen on their battlegroup, but not all battlegroups. The map has flaws, but Horde wins so much in my battlegroup that over about 200 matches I've played, I'd say Alliance has won maybe 20.
So it may be that certain battlegroups just have too many inexperienced players in the queues on one side, or maybe it's another factor -- but I know for sure the Horde's map disadvantage doesn't hurt them at all in my BG.