Breakfast Topic: Guild ending raid bosses
by Dan O'Halloran 
Oct 11th 2007 at 8:00AM
Recently we asked about your favorite raid boss encounter. The Old God of Ahn'Qiraj, C'thun, came out the clear favorite. But player Drekx asked on the official forums: what raid boss resulted in your guild disbanding? C'thun's name came up again. As did Kael'Thas, Lady Vashj and, old school, Vael. Even Bornakk chimed in with the Twin EmperorsBut my question to you is not what raid boss shattered your guild, but why? Bad leadership? Too many new raiders at the time? Pressure of a difficult encounter caused old tensions to flare? What's the real reason your guild dissolved after being unable to defeat a difficult encounter?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Breakfast Topics, Raiding, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
met Oct 11th 2007 8:09AM
Staring at morogrims ass too much and the gayness just flared up in guildchat causing everyone to /gquit due to homophobia
Perry Oct 11th 2007 8:15AM
Vaelastrasz in Vanilla, nearly Magtheridon in TBC. Let's see what the next big cockblock will be for us. I'm guessing Al'ar.
Kaylek Oct 11th 2007 8:23AM
Poor leadership.
Every raid had a different group of people, positioning was mixed up every time, and everyone had to practically relearn the encounter every attempt. A lot of the people being pulled along weren't capable of self-survival, which anyone knows is a major factor in the first phase.
This resulted in geared players passing on C'thun nights and their gaps being filled more and more by newer and less experienced raiders (and thus less geared raiders). This then spurred on "Mystery Raids," which made it where nobody wanted to come to anything because they didn't know if they were showing up for BWL, ZG, or MC.
It was simple enough. Had we outlined a preferred raid based on gear and experience, made it public to the guild, then those listed people would acknowledge the effort put forth by leadership to field the most effective attempts possible, not wasting anyone's time
Unfortunately, the problem was rooted back at Huhuran with the same issue, resulting in some vital transfers before we even made it to the Twin Emps. We had one key member who frequently said that the guild didn't have 40+ people capable of downing C'thun. Her attitude was representative of what was wrong with the guild, and why it ultimately failed without ever really trying when things didn't magically fall into place for them.
The end.
LdmthJ Oct 11th 2007 9:23AM
Hogger...
Ferrimus Oct 13th 2007 10:05PM
@4 You sir just made this an Epic Thread! lol
Evil M Oct 11th 2007 9:38AM
I think Gruul/Mags is a huge guild killer because it's the first real 25 man experience after 10 man omgVoidfarmKara. Part of me wishes the progression went "SSC - Gruul - Mags - TK" because I think teaching people in SSC is easier and more forgiving to the inexperienced than Gruul or Mags.
robodex Oct 11th 2007 9:43AM
Kael killed my guild. He is the hardest boss in the game currently.
J0ust Oct 11th 2007 9:44AM
Pre-TBC, Four Horsemen. Time and again we butted heads against them and came out bruised and bloody. I shudder to estimate the total cost of the repairs I had to foot, just wiping on those guys. We never got any further in Naxx, and as a result the group folded and splintered in anticipation of TBC.
In TBC, Al'ar almost did for us again. That's a very techincal fight above and beyond anything coming before it IMO, that requires focus and coordination from every member of the raid. That means no slackers, and in my experience you typically get 1 or 2 per raid...they are soon spotted fighting Al'ar though.
Next major bottleneck for us (by which I mean a few weeks worth of wipes, before we nail it) will likely be Kael'thas. Would be quite ironic if he drops Al'ar's ashes on our first kill :)
Andrew Oct 11th 2007 10:14PM
I agree with #5, going from a breezy 10 man to a strat heavy 25 man (I am talking High King which requires good execution, co-operation, and common sense) is quite a big leap for some people.
I think guild's disband because good players are tired of putting up with the bad players and the bad players are tired of progression, bad players want hassle-free epics and refuse to try and improve, they rely on the good players. And it's really as simple as that.
I consider myself a good player, I know how to play and I play well, but I know many people in my guild that are obviously being carried along that just don't deserve to be raiding.
Some guilds choose friends (who are bad players) over good players which is a big mistake I see often and really gets me down because I know that we're going to struggle.
Really, when raiding starts to feel too much like a chore is when guilds start to fall apart. I love raiding, but certain guilds really make it feel like some kind of obligation.
drakesilver Oct 11th 2007 10:36AM
My guild pulled Kael the first time last week. It is a ball breaker. I had thought Vashj was hard. But Vashj is nothing compared to Kael. Al'ar and Vashj are hard but nothing compared to the suck that is Kael
Drakesilver
John Oct 11th 2007 10:33AM
The guild breaking issue wiht the hard encounters is they really need all members to be top notch. And so players who are scrubs quickly come to the surface and wipe the raid again and again. Eventually the good players get tired of wasting time when the encounter could have easily been beaten already if it wernet for the scrubs...then fighting starts and the guild cracks.
Argent Oct 11th 2007 11:01AM
al'ar really isn't a hard fight imo. none of the post-patch sub-bosses in TK are (again, imo)
i think it's a tradeoff for the mindboggling insanity that is the kael fight. it has me right back wondering wtf blizz was thinking.
Hollywood Ron Oct 11th 2007 12:22PM
Women killed my guilds. Nothing says /gdisband like petty jealousies and having 6 people in a guild council.
Yeager Oct 12th 2007 4:55PM
My guild didn't disband but we got to Nefarian and it kinda went wrong from there and we didnt raid again till TBC came out.
Padragnis Oct 11th 2007 12:38PM
For my guild it was a lack of focus and inconsistency.
It took us 6 weeks do attempts to down Vashj. Then the 2 main tanks went on vacation at the same time. 2 weeks of not raiding spelled the end for us. Ultimately, I think that it was not the fack that Vashj was difficult to master, but rather that on some weeks we could clear SSC to Vashj in 2 nights, whereas others took us till Sunday, thereby lelaving us with only Monday night to attempt her. Repeatedly making mistakes on prior encounters that we thought we had mastered really took an emotional toll on the guild and forced many people to no longer have any fun in raiding. I am secretly hoping that ZA will fire it back up.
R.I.P. Friends with Benefits, US Gul'dan Alliance
It was a good run gang.
dimlaa Oct 11th 2007 1:39PM
I'm with #2: Poor leadership.
When the guild leaders don't even follow their own guidelines & requirements to constantly create excuses for friends/family who are, more often than not, scrubs, then a guild isn't going to stand a chance against even Gruul. The smarter players who actually put in the effort to play at that level will leave, and the guild as a whole has no more choice but to disband when the core that was pushing forward is all gone.
ThorinII Oct 11th 2007 1:57PM
Edwin Vancleef. Just couldn't get past that guy.
ROFLMAO
Ashley Oct 11th 2007 2:04PM
Four Horseman Vanilla WoW and Kael in TBC.
Burn out is a contributing factor to most guild breakups. If you don't have quality replacements, it's just a downward spiral.
Cutie Oct 11th 2007 2:21PM
A server-lag on EU-Terrordar for users of internet provider Telekom that endured about 3-4 weeks in autumn 2006 and nearly destroyed all major guilds. No compensation from Blizzard. :(
coop Oct 11th 2007 2:47PM
Quote - "Vashj is nothing compared to Kael. Al'ar and Vashj are hard but nothing compared to the suck that is Kael"
Quote - "al'ar really isn't a hard fight imo. none of the post-patch sub-bosses in TK are (again, imo)
i think it's a tradeoff for the mindboggling insanity that is the kael fight. it has me right back wondering wtf blizz was thinking."
I whole-heartedly agree. This fight is unforgiving. One death before Phase 5 = near impossible to kill Kael. Our guild has been working on him for quite a few nights. We are hoping to get him to Phase 5 tonight. Phase 5 = swim, kill, loot corpse. But getting to Phase 5 is extremely technical.
This difficulty and complexity of this fight is way beyond anything that I would have imagined for a raid encounter; however, the difficulty makes the win that much sweeter. Once past kael, the next few bosses are easier and drop more loots.