Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsRetribution gets passive threat reduction!
by Eliah Hecht 
Oct 16th 2007 at 2:35PM
I don't think I've ever used an exclamation point in a headline before, but this deserves it. It appears that Paladins' Retribution tree will be getting some passive threat reduction, as of patch 2.3. Posted just recently in the official forums by Eyonix:After further patch testing and some serious discussion, we've decided to add threat reduction deep in the paladin's retribution tree. As a result, fanaticism will now reduce threat caused by all actions by 6/12/18/24/30%, in addition to its current effect of course.
How does that sound? 30% passive threat retribution seems pretty darned solid to me. Let's hear it for Blizzard -- looks like they do listen to what their customers want after all.
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
bugmaster Oct 16th 2007 3:30PM
seriously why do u want a melee dpsing hunter go role a rogue or a warrior(or while were at it a paladin)
hunters are for ranged physical(mostly) dps end of discussion
Paul Oct 16th 2007 3:31PM
@13 oh, i didn't know that warriors were getting dps roles in raids. but then i don't raid at all, so i guess i shouldn't be all that surprised!
Thanks for the info! (I don't mean that sarcastically, i always re-read my posts and they sound sarcastic even when i don't want them to be for some reason)
rick gregory Oct 16th 2007 3:33PM
Oh good... another dps class... we SO needed one.
Yes, sarcasm. I'm sorry, but Blizz needs to actually stop and think about stuff vs just adding in talents because people scream loudly. I'm all for listening to the player base... so buff my rogue please. Yes, buff.
While it's way too early to really worry about this, I'm starting to wonder why raids would take my rogue. I bring one thing to a raid - single target DPS. My drawbacks are that I'm sqiuishy and melee. So any boss that does heavy AoE damage means I either suck up healing or I need to run out (doing zero damage during that period).
Now, think about it. If Ret Pallies could stand in and do, oh, 85-90% of my damage and mitigate things that would kill me or require heavy heals by bubbling and by simply being a plate wearer... what's my role?
Sorry, but I'm tired of people rolling a class and then whining that one specific tree isn't tops. Deal with it folks.
lockness Oct 16th 2007 3:40PM
@16... there is nothing wrong with ret if you are leveling... u will never see a retnub in BT or anything remotely close to it... guilds who don't care don't succeed. If you cared about raiding, you wouldn't spec ret. If you want to dps, play your alt who is a pure dps class... or spec a retnub and raid kara for the rest of your life.. your choice.
Tolthalan Oct 16th 2007 3:44PM
@21 But why, exactly, is having other DPS classes a problem? Having another dps class doesn't totally invalidate rogues. And why, exactly, shouldn't players be able to play as the spec and class they enjoy most? What exactly is the problem with retridins becoming slightly more raid viable?
Rich Oct 16th 2007 3:46PM
Great...
There is no reason that every tree in a class has to be viable for everything.
Ret was fine, it doesn't need threat reduction. Its a leveling and pvp build.
RogueJedi86 Oct 16th 2007 3:52PM
@#21/rick gregory
If you got to 70 as a Rogue, and still think the only thing Rogues can do is dps, then you are a very bad Rogue. They can do CC too, as just one example.
And the sad state of the game is that you cannot level a class unless you are able to output some form of DPS. Hence every hybrid class being some variation on DPS and another type. Paladins were the rare Tank class that could perform well when not grouped, but that was that the exception, not the rule.
Retribution has always been Paladin's DPS tree, since launch. You can't really scoff at anything done to it, because it is still a DPS tree. Thus when it doesn't work, and no one wants a member of that spec, it has to be buffed. But now they're buffing it, and people are still complaining.
I think these people are just mad because they'll lose some of their healbots, so they'll have to be a little more competent in keeping themselves alive.
innajunglestylee Oct 16th 2007 4:01PM
So Elemental Shamans get their DPS nerfed to lower threat...but Retribution Paladins get a passive reduction?
Man, we really need to hire you guys to do our crying. Congrats on the buff.
Alysandir Oct 16th 2007 6:35PM
Yes, let's all complain about ret becoming viable, because God forbid a melee-oriented class should be able to melee. With all that plate, they should definitely be in the back of the raid and restricted to healing roles (hello 2005-6!)
Get over yourselves. The only roles paladins are the absolute best at is single target healing and AOE tanking; everything else, we come in no better than second place to another class. Paladins get brought on raids more for the support and flexibility they bring than any one role they shine at. So now paladins specced into retribution can actually contribute instead of being an anchor on the raid. Big deal. Any rogue who thinks they will be replaced with a ret paladin, assuming they have enough class balance, is either a terrible rogue or hasn't thought things through.
URSAD Oct 16th 2007 4:07PM
Hahaha... show me a T5-T6 raiding guild with a ret pally (even with this threat reduction) and i'll show you one with a melee hunter! That's right, it doesn't happen because any other true dps class filling that raid spot will out dps you and therefore deserves that spot more than you.
A raiding ret pally? And maybe I'll eat my steak with a spoon!
Liel Oct 16th 2007 4:15PM
The wow forums crashed today as a million emos posted in joy.
iapetes Oct 16th 2007 4:17PM
@ 21
because rogues do more dps than anyone else. duh.
rick gregory Oct 16th 2007 4:21PM
@25... Haha.. very funny. That's hilarious.
Look, I raid lead Kara, farm Gruul, have all the heroic keys... blah blah. My ONE form of CC is Sap. For which I need to get up close and personal. And if you do that in a heroic/raid and are seen - you die. Sap's also not renewable in combat, so once that mob is free, the rogue can't resap it.
Compare this to a Mage's Sheep, a Warlock's Banish, etc.
The reality is that no one uses Sap to CC in raids - we use traps, shackles, banishes and sheeps. If you raided, you'd know this. Obviously, you don't so you don't.
Rogues bring damage to a raid. Period. CAN we CC? sure, but it's weak in a raid evnironment. We have no buffs worth mentioning, we can't tank (Evasion tanking doesn't count though it's fun) and we can't heal. Combine all of that with the fact that we're squishy and then compare us to a ret pally that did 90% of our damage, has much higher survivability and can bring buffs. Now... why would you bring the rogue?
The only way rogues remain viable is if we have a very clear single target damage advantage over other melee classes to make up for the weak CC and squishiness. If Ret pallies bring 90% of our damage that won't be the case. If they bring, say, 70%, it will. we'll see.
Skrilla Oct 16th 2007 4:21PM
l2heal retnoobs
rick gregory Oct 16th 2007 4:28PM
@29.... Not so much in Kara through TK... Due to itemization, Locks tend to out damage rogues, mostly because of the T5 level tailored gear. Some of this might change with the 2.3 heroic loot and ZA drops. And rogues shine in BT.
I'm happy for the ret pallies in my guild (our GL is ret). I think it's great that if you want to spec ret you can do reasonable damage - I'm just concerned that Blizz did this in a kneejerk fashion and hope that they're watching how this, the intro of Death KNights and other developments affect pure dps classes.
Oh.. and I want a ranged form of CC... give me blowdarts! with poisons!! :)
Karl Oct 16th 2007 4:30PM
And now I'll point out the complaint I had a little while back...One that nobody else seemed to pay attention to.
So, you're excited about the 30% reduction in threat that is passive, huh? Well when your priest is getting eaten alive in the 5-mans because you are no longer a viable off-tank and coulnd't take threat from your non-combat kitten pet, you may just hate the day you begged for this. But hey, we reap what we sow. Overall, I must admit I'm happy, but I just think back to times in MC or another raid that I needed to pick up a target that a tank lost...and could. I'd pull him back to the tank and let him grab it. That will obviously never happen again.
Dyermaker Oct 16th 2007 4:45PM
@33
Taunt still works. And, if you want things the way they were before, simply do not give yourself Salvation. 30% is the same 30% you had from Salvation before, if you find yourself off tanking, use a different blessing. In the situations where you would have clicked off Salvation, you now cast Righteous Fury.
Dyermaker Oct 16th 2007 4:51PM
@30
Rogue DPS stacks whereas Paladin DPS does not. If all the raid boosts a Retribution Paladin brings to the table gets him to within 90% of a rogue, what happens when you add another? Judgement of the Crusader does not stack. A second Crusader Strike doesn't keep any more Judgements alive, second Sanctity aura in the DPS group adds nothing.
Rogue DPS will continue to shine, and with a reason to bring a Retribution Paladin to raids, will be improved!
RogueJedi86 Oct 16th 2007 4:52PM
@#30/rick gregory
Okay, I see what you're getting at. While we're at it, nerf Feral Druids, and Fury/Arms Warriors. Also nerf Mages and Warlocks and Shadowpriests. Because no one is allowed to dps but you. Because if anyone else can dps in addition to rogues, rogues will be useless, and no one will use them. Is that you're trying to say?
Stephen Oct 16th 2007 4:54PM
Cool, now those raids that take Survival hunters, and Discipline priests have a dps class to help them get past Maulgar!!