An argument for permanent death
by Eric Vice 
Oct 17th 2007 at 2:00PM
I'm all about good ideas to improve the game we all love. I've even been known to toss them out to you folks on occasion. This morning though, in my morning perousal of the internets, I found a blog entry that just about made my eyes pop out of my head.Our good west-coast friend Cap'n Jack posted a couple of ideas yesterday that certainly had the benefit of being novel, if not extreme. While I don't think my head can completely wrap itself around his first PvP-themed suggestion, I'm really intrigued at his second idea: Permadeath.
That's right folks. The Cap'n is suggesting that once you die, you're dead. If you can't find a benevolent druid, shaman, priest, paladin, or an engineer with a set of jumper cables within thirty minutes of death you're toast. Game over. Thanks for playing. We'll see you at the character creation screen momentarily. Jack further proposes that if the grim reaper does defeat you, that you would be allowed to start the character over at Level 1 naked and without skills, but retaining your name, your race, your class, and -- most importantly -- your ignore list.
While even my wildest imagination cannot fathom the amount of hate comments I'm going to get over this article, I should state that I don't agree with 100% with John, I'm just presenting his idea for discussion. As a longtime MMOG player, I've seen the penalty for death gradually diminish from year to year and game to game. While I might not be entirely in John's corner on this issue I can agree that some more "serious" penalties for death might be refreshing. What are your thoughts? I'll be hiding in the WoW Insider bomb shelter. Let me know when the coast is clear.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Fan stuff, Odds and ends
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Shalmaneser Oct 17th 2007 2:07PM
I always wanted permanent death on some servers. I always like the hardcore setting in Diablo why not bring that to WoW? Though it would probably be impossible to raid on a hardcore server.
Rich Oct 17th 2007 2:08PM
It sure would shut up the hardcore players complaining that a carebear game is well too carebear...
Buuty Oct 17th 2007 2:13PM
From an old debate: Any game which depends on the internet for its reliability has no place permanently taking away all your stuff. Period. Next question?
Satryghen Oct 17th 2007 2:14PM
I wouldn't go for it personally, penalties for death I think just gets in the way of playing. One of the reasons I quit playing City of Heroes was the loss of XP every time I died, working off the debt was a huge pain. This idea seems more like something people could do amongst a group of friends, sort of a gentleman's agreement that if they die and don't get rezzed they'll start over.
Buuty Oct 17th 2007 2:13PM
Lag death FTL anyone?
Troutmask Oct 17th 2007 2:14PM
Remember UO?
When you die, you lose all your stuff if there's another player around to take it.
Seems harsh? If you die to PVE, your body could still be unlooted. In PVP, your buddy can loot you if possible.
If you lose all your stuff? Make sure you have a backup set. Then kill somebody else for their things. This was the best PVP ever.
Asheron's Call had a good system also. You die = the most expensive thing in your bag is available for looting. The higher your level, the more things dropped. This was very fun as well.
Orestes Oct 17th 2007 2:14PM
I'd certainly roll an alt or three on a hardcore server
lirean Oct 17th 2007 2:15PM
An interesting idea. If you could keep your rep with factions as well it may be an idea that I would consider for some servers. This sort of idea I'm all for as long as there's an option to not deal with it.
infection Oct 17th 2007 2:18PM
I don't know anything about the guy, but it would seem he has no life, or he never plays mmropg's.
No way could someone that has leveled to 70 accept a permadeath penalty.
Go play Counterstrike or Half-life please.
One of the biggest attractions that I've noticed about the game is the no death penalty (unless you choose to rez at gy) This just makes sense to me, you can play the game and have fun with no worries of losing this or that.
I remember playing asheron's call, what a hassle it was to die. While some may say it makes the game more challenging... I don't agree. I would spend so much time burning off Vitea and trying to get back to my corpse, that it completely ruined the game for me.
Some might say, "well, quit sucking", but once you've died due to lag, computer crash, or server problems, you'll change your attitude. Because the game's code isn't forgiving on these problems. How does it know you are lagging? Or that your power just went out at your house.
What a horrible idea this guy has. This must have just been something to get crap started, or he was just bored. Please use your time and your brain in positive ways, not to just suggest random acts of idiocracy.
Arturis Oct 17th 2007 2:16PM
Wouldn't that system give Warlock and Shaman an unfair advantage, considering both have an ability to self rez?
Cribley Oct 17th 2007 2:17PM
Take away the 30 minute time limit, and I'm all for it.
You die; you need someone to res you.
(Unless of you're a shaman, have that darkmoon deck, or had soulstone up.)
Greg Oct 17th 2007 2:17PM
I do think that death penalties should be harsher for sure, but isn't an MMO with permadeath just a normal video game?
I'm sure I read a psychological article (that I agree with) that said the unique appeal that made MMOs what they are is the fact that you have a permanent entity. Everytime you log on you advance a bit more, you form a relationship with your characters, it keeps you hooked.
If that character got dumped every couple of days and you had to start again from scratch... erm... then aren't we just talking about Ghosts 'n' Golbins with 9mil players? And wouldn't you bore of it just as quickly?
Ted Oct 17th 2007 2:18PM
I personally prefer how EVE has implemented death penalties with the clone contracts, insurance and pods.
Hollywood Ron Oct 17th 2007 2:19PM
I don't like permanent death, but I like the idea that you can loot player bodies in PVP and get a piece of their gear.
rick gregory Oct 17th 2007 2:24PM
If WoW did this, it would die the permadeath. Sure, a small percentage of folks would love this. But most of the people who play WoW would hate it and would leave the first time they saw it. I would have.
People keep asking why WoW is so sucessful and one of the reasons is that there AREN'T a lot of barriers and frustrations like this. Look how much complaining there is about the difficulty of levelling now. "Oh, it takes so long... " Now add in permadeath.
Silly idea from a person who doesn't get why WoW has 9M subscribers.
ninjasuperspy Oct 17th 2007 2:22PM
Aside from soulstones and shaman self-rez, this would make playing WoW on my wireless basically a non-starter. I wouldn't even try it.
Razhlok Oct 17th 2007 2:22PM
A 50g repair bill after a night of wiping in TK is enough of a death penalty. kthnxbye.
Stacey Oct 17th 2007 2:26PM
Although the idea of permadeath would raise the lvl of the game for some, I'm more intrigued with Cap'n Jack's first idea...there would be a lot of fun in creating epic raids to retake towns you've lost to the enemy...and it would give all those who joined in a large scale raiding experience that they might not have had before...
Bunkai Oct 17th 2007 2:28PM
I don't think it would be impossible to raid on a "Hardcore" server. With the 30 min grace period, any healer-types could get back to the wipe point and rez the raid. Though, shaman with their Ankhs on cooldown and Locks being lazy with their soulstones could become an issue.
I would also like the idea of a Diablo 2-esque Hardcore server set to be implemented for WoW. It could be based off of a PvE server, where world PvP would only be possible in zones that had world PvP objectives, (and maybe only within a certain radius of those objectives) but with the option to flag PvP at any time during play (the 5 min cooldown on flagging would have to be removed).
There could even be a ladder system like D2 had, to replace the honor system of Arenas and Battlegrounds (unless those were made exceptions to the permadeath rule).
Overall, the idea sounds to me like a great way to breathe life back in to the game for those that have left due to burn-out.
josh Oct 17th 2007 2:27PM
If anybody want this implemented so badly, you could just take it upon yourself for your death punishment. Immediately logout and type "DELETE" into the box. Congrats, you are now hardcore.