PTR Notes: Pet in position
by Mike Schramm 
Oct 17th 2007 at 4:13PM
Mania's Arcania is at it again with the Hunter testing. This time, she heard in the 2.3 patch notes that pets will apparently always try to fight from behind their target (thus supposedly removing Parry and Block from the hit table for those attacks, but apparently that's not always 100% either), and she decided to test it out.When her pet was tanking, she didn't see a change. That seems obvious-- if the pet holds the highest aggro, it would be pointless for them to run around in circles to try and get behind a mob. Unless the target was somehow stunned (Rogues use that tactic all the time, of course), but she didn't say that she was able to test that case at all.
But when she or someone else was tanking, sure enough, the pet slowly circled around to the side of the enemy (which, I believe counts as "the back" in terms of theorycrafting), and attacked there. The problem was that the pet did move slowly, and during the whole time spent positioning, wasn't attacking at all.
It sounds like Blizzard is trying to get some complicated code down here, and I wonder if the result is really worth the effort. But then again, for Hunters who raid, a buff to their pet's attack like this is probably very welcome. And the real reason for this change probably has nothing to do with attacking from behind anyway-- despite the short loss of DPS, keeping pets out of frontal AoE and cleave attacks is definitely a terrific benefit.
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Raiding, Classes
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
swatltlen Oct 17th 2007 4:25PM
As a hunter I'm pretty excited about this. If they can make the speed of the rotation to the back of the target, not only will the pet avoid frontal AOE attacks and cleaves, but also increase overall pet damage.
Slayblaze Oct 17th 2007 4:29PM
All they need to do is have the actual math behind the pet's attack behave as if the pet physically is behind the target, what we visually SEE happening is immaterial. Its like me tossing a shadowbolt at my target, the target moves, yet visually I see the bolt curving to connect my target. Mathmatically, my bolt may be a "miss/resist" yet what I *saw* was my shadobolt hit my target.
Point being that it doesn't matter what we *see* as it is only a general indication of the battle taking place mathmatically behind the scenes. The Hunter pets should be the same way. There is no need to force the 3d model of the pet to actually move behind the 3d model of the target except strictly for the visual asthetic factor.
Andrew Oct 17th 2007 4:36PM
@2 and on that note, I don't care where I "see" the rogue, all I need to know is I'm screwed :D
In all seriousness, I love the idea. Playing a raid tank as one of my 70s, the less chances of parries = happy and alive.
Also, it gives BM hunters even MORE credibility.
Razhlok Oct 17th 2007 4:32PM
Is it worth it? You bet its worth it. Forget about increased pet DPS. Think of what happens when Gruul parries an attack? This is a good thing for *everyone* in the raid. :)
Keysdawg Oct 17th 2007 4:35PM
This will be a HUGE boost to pet survivability. Even sitting in 2/5 Tier 5 (Heals pet for 15% of damage I deal) and a mend pet on him, he still takes a large amount of damage based on positioning. I can reduce this with some manuevering, but it's really annoying.
Charles Oct 17th 2007 4:56PM
The end result is definitly worth it. During early Prince attempts with our tank going down like a rock, we checked the combat log and saw that he attacked 8 times within 5 seconds, and we determinded it was from pet parries.
Love this change ++
Smurk Oct 17th 2007 5:01PM
In 2.3, not only will Vanish still be broken against pets, it'll actually make them stronger!
Experiencing trouble with positioning pet attacks? Have a rogue Vanish in your vicinity, and your pet will morph into a controllable raid boss who poops epix.
Chris Anthony Oct 17th 2007 5:05PM
@2: That's the proper approach if you're playing a collection of numbers. Unfortunately, the visual aspect of the game is so integral to its function for me that having a pet attack "from behind" from the front would almost certainly break my immersion.
This seems like a good idea to me, but if Mania's observations regarding the pet shuffling around to the side without attacking are accurate (and I have no reason to believe that they aren't), this might pose a problem in PVP; I can imagine an enemy player exploiting this to keep a pet from attacking at all.
I'm definitely interested in seeing how this turns out.
WP Oct 17th 2007 5:05PM
i guess i dont see the real point to it. when i raid i try and position myself so i can get my cat to attack from where i want him to be. i guess if it makes some hunter happy..ok. stick to my method.. works for me :)
Salty Oct 17th 2007 5:13PM
It's humorous that they're finally implementing something like this. I spent a long time perfecting pet positioning, and I would either tell my pet to stay in a spot which would allow him to be behind the target, or I would actually forego a chunk of DPS by momentarily mind controlling my pet and physically moving him where I wanted him. I never really considered the dodge/parry DPS boost until mentioned, and that's pretty cool considering my pet misses a significant number of times in any long fight. But anything that keeps my pet from getting to snapping his jaws immediately is a little disconcerting. The idea of watching him get in a buggy AI loop during a critical fight kinds concerns me.
The other thing is that sometimes I don't want him behind the target. Prince, for instance, when he's being tanking against the wall and an infernal spawns behind him, I would manually position my pet on top of the tank (in front of prince) out of the AoE, since he's immune to knockback and enfeeble... there is no risk to him aside from shadow aoe and cleave. Does this mean he'll start slowly working his way back into the aoe or will the act of using eyes of the beast clue the game in that you want to disable that AI for a little while? What about nightbane, here melee should be standing at his sides to avoid his frontal cleave and tail swipe (same with Ghaz'an in Underbog)? What about bosses with "random" targeting that causes them to spin around, target, cast a spell, and get right back on the boss... does this mean my pet is going to take a lap with unpredicable results whenever that occurs?
I babysit my pet constantly, and I'm all about fine-grained micromanagement of the pet... but this sounds like I may see a few more random pet deaths and bug-outs. Earlier on the PTR I had him attack a mob to check out the 10% RAP bonus to traps/stings, and I watched him and the mob play hopscotch for 10 seconds or so before I told him to stay put, though I haven't confirmed this happens regularly, I'll be watching him closely when we run an instance on PTR.
Rather than this potential headache - how about fixing those random bugouts pets get where the mob will seemingly run halfway accross the room with your pet in tow because the game thinks your pet is somewhere else.
Diaz Oct 17th 2007 5:16PM
While I LOVE the idea, its the implementation that scares me. Pets already suffer a significant drop in DPS when attacking moving targets as the repositioning disrupts the attack sequence... now the pet is going to reposition even on static targets... this could be bad.
Autumnbear Oct 17th 2007 5:21PM
I was going to suggest that they choose positions based on threat levels, but that wouldn't work in a PVP situation as threat can't be calculated from player actions.
Simply add more beast commands. Pet Stances. One is an aggressive, threat gaining stance. The other is a sneaky, flank attack stance.
If your pet is in defensive stance, it will have a few moves that are designed to drop aggro. Like a reverse Growl. It would have the same cooldown as Growl, and constantly try to Cower and lower it's presence. That way it can stay behind a target and unleash a host of new back-attack moves.
Pets are rather limited in the amount of abilities they can learn and use. Specialized commands, such as attacking the flanks of targets or dominating for target threat, should be developed.
Bukinara Oct 17th 2007 6:10PM
this is neat, but I wish they'd just fix the sluggish pace at which pets gain xp, especially if you're much higher than them in level.
jeff.bragg Oct 17th 2007 8:06PM
This could be problematic for hunters if pets try to do this in PvP. Whoever is being attacked by the pet can just turn around to make the pet move and hence not attack while moving.
Byron Oct 17th 2007 11:41PM
Nice, keyboard-turner pets. WTB pet/minion that knows to step through mob then reverse directions in two quick movements.
Xektor Oct 18th 2007 4:22AM
Any word on whether or not this is happening with Warlock pets as well?
Ana Oct 18th 2007 9:00AM
"Is it worth it? You bet its worth it. Forget about increased pet DPS. Think of what happens when Gruul parries an attack? This is a good thing for *everyone* in the raid. :)"
Razhlok said it! What can happen is 16k damage in .42 seconds, according to last week's combat log. :-P Cheers for pets that do it from behind!
Tammer Nov 13th 2007 4:20PM
"Specialized commands, such as attacking the flanks of targets or dominating for target threat, should be developed.
Posted at 5:21PM on Oct 17th 2007 by Autumnbear"
Bravo, Brilliant suggestion......