Officers' Quarters: Reinforcements
by Scott Andrews 
Oct 22nd 2007 at 11:14AM
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
According to the latest additions to the patch 2.3 notes, obtaining all the available bag slots for your guild bank will cost you exactly 16,111 gold. So it's no wonder people are concerned about recruiting these days (though in fairness I received the e-mail below prior to any guild bank info going public). But seriously, somebody has to cough up all that cash . . .
Hi! I have read through your officer's quarters blog since day one and have enjoyed a lot of helpful information from each episode. I know you have touched on guild recruitment in the past, but I think it was a more direct response to a, in my opinion, small demographic of Wow guilds. I am the recruitment officer for a guild (shameless plug incoming: <Malleum Majorem> Lightning's Blade server -- www.malleum.com) and we are working VERY hard to get our second Kara group running in order to get into 25-man content. The biggest problem we are having is getting people to join. I think every guild, aside from the huge "everybody knows they are the best" guilds, has this same issue. We work hard to get people into the guild that share the same goals and philosophies. I have been broadcasting in the recruitment channel for weeks and it seems I get 1-2 people a week who ask questions. We consistently do all of Kara (except Illhoof and Nightbane, still earning those) every week. Do you have any fresh ideas or inner thoughts that can help me and my fellow recruiters around Azeroth get the numbers needed for progression?
Thanks eternally :)
-Evean
<Malleum Majorem>
I believe the column Evean is referring to is this one, where I talked about starting up a new guild. Many of the same ideas apply to any guild looking to expand.
The problem is, these days Kara guilds are a dime a dozen. Most of them have plans to eventually expand to 25-man raids, but many don't. Promises and intentions are just that. You're not going to hook many people in by saying, "Someday we'll try Gruul."
You need to offer something beyond the chance at Kara loot to make an impression. Most players are interested in more than loot. They want an environment where they feel comfortable. Figure out what your guild is really about. Is it about progression in a light-hearted atmosphere? Is it about strict attendance policies and DKP? Is it about kicking butt in the arena? Is it about being a neanderthal? Is it about pie?
Once you find out, you need to market that message: "If you're looking for awesome, tasty pie recipes, look no further than Malleum Majorem. Check out our Web site for more info!"
But posting ads in the Guild Recruitment channel isn't enough. You need to be active on your server's forum and on your server. When big companies want to get people interested in their products or services, they sometimes host events to build awareness of their brand. Here is a great example. A guild on EU Doomhammer hosted an event that anyone on the server could participate in. It's a lot of hard work to organize something like this. We've done similar events just within my guild, so I can't even imagine how tough it would be to do something like this for an entire server. However, it's a huge awareness builder for your guild. After all, you or I never would never have heard of that guild if they hadn't ran that event.
An event is one way to be active on your server, but it's just as effective to do the little things. If you see someone asking for help with a quest in General, spend 10 minutes to help him out. He might forget about your help as soon as you leave the party, but then again, you might make an impression. Maybe he'll say to his friends, "That druid from Malleum Majorem was such a great guy. I bet that guild rocks!" Word of mouth is more powerful than advertising, in my opinion, because people trust the words of their friends over those of the guy they don't know posting about his guild.
If you belong to a large- or medium-size guild, it's easy to fall into a fishbowl mentality. You log in and never look outside your guild for opportunities. Break that habit -- just because someone is guildless or in a guild you've never heard of doesn't mean they're a worthless player with nothing to offer.
Choke and sputter if you must at this suggestion, but -- trust me -- this works: Run PuGs. It's heresy, I know. But seriously, it's a very effective way to build awareness and meet new people. You're spending about an hour with that person at least. You're going to have to work together to clear the instance. It's a wonderful opportunity to show off how skilled and friendly your guild's players are, and it gives you a chance to get to know some people outside the fishbowl. Of course, in any PuG, everything could go horribly wrong. But even in the worst PuG, there's usually one or two people who know what they're doing, trying with futile determination to get people to stop breaking crowd control or pulling aggro. Those are the people you want in your guild (not the guy who /afk's through the gauntlet in Shattered Halls).
My officers have had great success with this method. Many of our members, including some who are now officers, came to us after PuGs. With the new daily quests and lowered Heroic key requirements, people are going to be running 5-man content quite a bit. It's a great opportunity for many guilds looking to staff up.
Now, don't misunderstand me: I never advocate headhunting. By that I mean actively trying to recruit members of another guild into your own. But running PuGs gets your name out there. If it goes well, it plants a seed. And someday if that player becomes unhappy with his or her guild, or the guild falls apart, they're going to be looking for a new place to call home. If you come across someone who is unguilded, there's obviously nothing unethical about asking them why that is and if they'd be interested in joining one.
Here are a few more awareness-building ideas:
- Offer to run officers in other guilds through Kara or other raids to help them learn the encounters.
- Take Halaa and keep it for an entire weekend (may not be remarkable if your server is horribly unbalanced toward your faction).
- Hold contests on your server's forum. Give away hard-to-find enchants, gem cuts, or craftable gear as prizes.
- Start up a twink squad to find good players as they level up.
- Place bounties on members of the opposite faction for cash rewards.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Lucitan Oct 22nd 2007 11:51AM
Whenever I see someone who is unguilded, I ask them if they want to join one. That usually works for me.
Smurk Oct 22nd 2007 11:53AM
Inviting someone to fill out an instance group is a good way to possibly find new guild members. Run something with them, mention that they're welcome to join your guild if they're ever interested (after the instance is over) and leave it at that. I realize that this is a slow method of building a raid roster, but I don't think there's any quick means of getting good players.
Just don't whisper me about joining (or even send me a guild invitation) out of the blue just because I'm high-level and unguilded. That doesn't mean I'm desperate to join any guild. Do not try to impress me by describing how awesome and funny you all are: I'll realize the dis/truth of this soon enough if and when I do join.
Omegi Oct 22nd 2007 12:35PM
How we managed our recruiting was a lot of work but all of that hard work is now out of the way and applicants roll in every day.
First is to teach your current members the recruiting process. Make sure its the same each and every time. That way people who are new to the guild can pick up on how they were recruited and pass it along. Have a standard format for an application. Make sure it covers what you are really looking for and make each and every applicant fill it out. Have the same approval process as well.
Also as Scott said, run those pugs. Fill it with as many guildies as you can and then take pick ups. Don't openly recruit them from another guild. That makes you sound desperate. But one thing you may want to do is sell the guild experience to those pugs. No one is going to brag on your guild so you should do it. I know it sounds bad but you can do it discreetly. Drop comments like "I hate Illhoof, such a crappy fight" or "Gruul is a push over". That lets those pug's know you are raiding and what content you are working on without openly saying "we need more raiders for gruul".
I have found that posting a recruitment thread in the realm forums typically yields 1 person at the most. But it gets the name out there. Be professional and to the point. Don't brag or exaggerate. Just get your name out there.
Also, never allow guild members to recruit in general/trade chat either. That just brings out a lot of negative attention.
Your site looks like it's done very well. Make sure you pay it as much attention as you do your guild in the game. Lead as best you can on both fronts.
The most important thing is to remain strong. You are going to get a lot of poo flung at you. You are going to get sick of peoples shit. Just try to stay calm. Find people you trust that can help with the workload and stick it out. Don't work for immediate progression. Work for stability and longevity. All of those other fly by night guilds will disband and come knocking on the door. When they do, make them all go through the application process like everyone else. Let them know there is no such thing as a merger. Either they are in to follow or they are out. Never recruit new people and give them power in the guild. The buck will always stop at your desk and never accept anything less.
Shiro Oct 22nd 2007 12:59PM
Step 1:
Server forum assignments.
You should really try to have one person assigned from your guild to watch and interact on your server's forum each day of the week. You can't underestimate the power of getting your name out there into the public consciousness.
Try to pick the most literate members of your guild though. The last thing you want is some l33t speaking dork out there giving you a *bad* impression. Get someone in there who can type decently, and who is knowledgeable about the game and have them try to post in any thread that's available. Even if it's just to post in some other guilds recruitment thread about how "I ran an instance with these guys and they seem nice". That sort of stuff proves that *you're* actually pretty nice and it makes it seem like your guild isn't "too needy" for people.
Step 2:
As mentioned above, run lots of PuGs. Try to have at least 3 guild members in the PuG, and then bring in two other people to fill the slots. If they're any good, praise them. Let them know that they're a decent player and ask if they're satisfied with their current guild. Let them know that you are an officer in a guild and you like to hear what people like and don't like about theirs so you can help improve yours. That way you're not actively soliciting them to jump, but just giving them an opening to talk about what they don't like.
Then... Once they've thought about their guild situation a bit, they might want to move to that guild with the nice GM who actually values people's opinions.
Shiro Oct 22nd 2007 12:59PM
Step 1:
Server forum assignments.
You should really try to have one person assigned from your guild to watch and interact on your server's forum each day of the week. You can't underestimate the power of getting your name out there into the public consciousness.
Try to pick the most literate members of your guild though. The last thing you want is some l33t speaking dork out there giving you a *bad* impression. Get someone in there who can type decently, and who is knowledgeable about the game and have them try to post in any thread that's available. Even if it's just to post in some other guilds recruitment thread about how "I ran an instance with these guys and they seem nice". That sort of stuff proves that *you're* actually pretty nice and it makes it seem like your guild isn't "too needy" for people.
Step 2:
As mentioned above, run lots of PuGs. Try to have at least 3 guild members in the PuG, and then bring in two other people to fill the slots. If they're any good, praise them. Let them know that they're a decent player and ask if they're satisfied with their current guild. Let them know that you are an officer in a guild and you like to hear what people like and don't like about theirs so you can help improve yours. That way you're not actively soliciting them to jump, but just giving them an opening to talk about what they don't like.
Then... Once they've thought about their guild situation a bit, they might want to move to that guild with the nice GM who actually values people's opinions.
Smurk Oct 22nd 2007 1:09PM
But then I'm curious, do these people you woo away from other guilds actually stick with yours? These seem like the type who follow only the siren song of lewtz.
Mirina Oct 22nd 2007 1:27PM
Some good thoughts here. I would not forget to hit up your realm forums...if anything, a post that you are recruiting can garner some attention (it did us), as well as visiting the guild recruitment forums (ZOMG, there is a guild recruitment forum! O.O I didn't find it until a couple weeks ago, seriously) as there are people there who are even looking to transfer realms to join you!
All our recruits know that they have a 2-week trial period. This saves us the trouble of PUGging. We will put you through the ringer to see how well you play your class. We took 5 new people through Kara last week, clearing all but Nightbane (we might finish it tonight), keeping them on the time table that we run for those of us who have it on farm. And ironically, the new guildies were able to keep the pace and learn our rules pretty quickly. At the same time, they are getting gear, possibly seeing something they have never seen before, etc, which can be exciting for them (excitement + new content = good potential of staying power). We've been doing HH runs, Heroics, helping the random members with keying, etc. Yea, the officers haven't gotten much sleep in the past week, but I currently have a guild sitting at 95 members (with a little bit of housecleaning) in 7 days--and still more coming. We even have 2 Kara runs and Gruuls scheduled for this week to keep people active.
The best thing to do is be honest with interested parties. I'm PAINFULLY honest with people. If we think your DPS/spec can use improvement, a class lead will talk to you. If we don't like your attitude in general/you're spamming trade/etc, we will call you out and request that you stop. Dropping instances with guildies after you run? Yup, we're going to get you on that one too. But every recruit knows this from the beginning. They are told that they have 1 chance to screw up. They are made aware of our DKP and raid policy as soon as they sign on.
If they like what they hear, they stick with us (98% of them have so far), and some even bring their friends over! Another great way to grow.
Aside from the forums, we haven't done much other "recruitment." But you'd be amazed at the number of people who lurk the forums to see what's up. It's a big center of information for many. One of the officers could barely do his portion of Kara due to the huge number of /w he was getting about recruitment! We've just been "parking" ourselves in major cities if we know we might be busy for the evening. I will go out of my way to speak to people who want to talk--I've sat in on more conversations in vent with another officer talking to potential recruits than I ever thought I would. Usually my only role is to back up what the officer is saying, but I think that showing a potential that a GM will leave their instance channel (and all communication for that instance, aside from /p chat) to spend 20-30 minutes talking to them about their concerns says a lot.
Most of all, make sure your officers are available, all speaking with one voice on your guild needs (the majority of the officers do a review of the recruitment needs list every couple days so that we are all on the same page), and good representations of what your guild embodies. To me, that speaks volumes about your guild as a whole.
infection Oct 22nd 2007 1:17PM
(kinda long story relating to this issue, read if you are bored!)
So I'll throw my story in since this JUST happened to my rogue this past week.
Me and my rogue friend get in a "fairly new" guild that says they are running kara (my character is also a rogue). Come to find out, they are about to start kara that week. Ok, no big deal.
So my rogue is not kara keyed and neither is my friend's. I asked the guild can anyone help us run that quest line so we can start kara with them. (Also, a side note, there were all of 20 people total in the guild, and NEVER more than 7 70's on at one time) So no one wants to help (or busy doing something else). Me and my friend get all the keys up until durnholde keep on our own.
Being i'm on a pvp server and a rogue, durnholde was very impossible to get a group for. All last week i spent most of my day looking for a group. My friend lucked up and got a group and also got a group for BM. I on the other hand could still not find a group by the end of the week. (This whole time we still would ask the guild for help)
Eventually we started making a big deal about it, how no one would help (yet they wanted people for kara?) So 3 members decided to help me with durn and we pugged a 5th.
In the middle of the instance 1 of the guildies has to go afk for 10 minutes (ok, wtf? but i was patient and said ok) When he gets back, 1 of the other one's said they needed to do the same. Immediately the pug broke group. Then all the sudden 2 of the guildies broke group.
So i'm asking why in guild chat, no response. So i tell them good luck getting members that doesn't get help with things such as what i was doing (wasnt asking for them to farm money for me) and i left the guild.
All the sudden the guild leader comes at me with pst's with all kind of F you type statements. Saying that I basically told him "f you" for breaking guild.
My friend broke shortly after that, seeing what they just done to me, and also seeing they didn't help at all as well.
If you want a guild, it WILL take effort on your part to participate in certain things. A guild is not something you put together and just assume that everyone needs to pug what they need.
Morale of the story, if you don't want to help members with things that will help your guild, THEN DON'T CRY WHEN THEY LEAVE.
Kara is not a 1 man show. It takes 10 people to run it (that are not uber geared). If members are really trying to get something done but having bad luck.... well.. suck it up and help them, or quit recruiting.
MIrina Oct 22nd 2007 1:36PM
Infection,
That really sucks--I can't state just how surprised I was in some conversations last week. A guild requested to join us so that they would have enough people to run Kara (I was almost able to have a 25-man up and running without them joining). Since they raided on our times, and wanted to progress, we said "sure, as long as you play by our rules, follow our raid schedule, etc." I was getting a group together (yay for going to sleep at 1a during a workweek) of their new 70s to get Kara keying started, and their old GM says to me "You all actually help get your guild keyed for Kara? We just let them PUG it." Vent got dead silent--there were 3 officers in the channel at the time too...and the only thing I could think of was "then what's the point of being in a guild if your own GM won't help with keying and feeds you to the PUG wolves?"
So dude, I feel your pain. To me it's part of guild responsibility. If you don't have enough people to run kara, then why the heck WOULDN'T you help your members get keyed? Yea, there's the chance that once people get geared, they'll move on, but such is life. It's something I'm not stressing about at this point (I'm a prime example, I left my last guild for some things that somewhat match up to what you said, but I had also picked up my T4 shoulders 2 days before I /gquit).
I see my guild as being one big (sometimes not happy) family. We all help each other out. Whether it be keying, mats for crafting, gold for respeccing, whatever. We're there for each other--and to me, that's the true meaning of a guild.
Rihlsul Oct 22nd 2007 1:51PM
I think most folks have covered everything I would add but for one thing.
You presumably have a team of happy members. If you have some forums (or can take fast notes), pop the question: What about the guild makes you happy that you're here?
That gives you your fuel for a recruiting post. If everyone likes that you're laid back, but yet manage to come together to Kara, then you want to make sure you describe your guild that way to attract more of the same.
Our guild, for example, is predominantly east coast working folks, most of whom are parents, so the 9p-12a run times really work well for that crowd. While recruiting members, I specifically aimed for such.
Remember, you can't sell your strengths unless you know what they are.
Katsuya Kaiba Oct 22nd 2007 2:15PM
That funny you mentioned pie. Whenever we get a new member of our guild, our welcoming message is:
"Welcome to our guild. We have beer and pie!"
Wedu Oct 22nd 2007 3:34PM
I'm currently recruiting people for my guild in 60-70 level range, for sole purpose to spend some time with them leveling, to know them better, who and what they are. I must say it was right thing to do, but as we getting closer to 70, it becomes obvious that soon enough we will need to take only lvl70 players, and Kara key is one of my primary concerns. I don't worry for myself, not to mention that few people to whom I trust already got their keys.
Personally I don't mind to help people to get their keys, but as a GM I'm concerned that once they get it, they may leave to another guild that already have Kara on farm. A lot of guilds right now on my server recruiting, and two things they require is lvl70 and Kara key. And they have progress sometimes much further than we currently can dream of. So as you can see, helping people to get their key can be tricky cuz tbh, loyalty isn't something I've seen much in WoW. Btw, everytime I see recruitment messages in channels or on forums, the MINIMUM is lvl70 and Kara key, often they need key to heroics as well.
So if helping your people to getting kara key isn't even a question for several persons posted above, why guilds have such requirements and what should I do?
Diaz Oct 22nd 2007 4:34PM
I always wonder at guilds who only try and recruit the best of the best in raiders or pvpers. You see them all the time 'Only apply if you have 300 resilience or x amount of epics or are keyed for everything under the sun'.
They go into recruitment as a business proposition and then wonder why the guild splits later on.
If you run your guild like a corporation, you will attract people with a corporate mentality (no offense intended as I do have a corporation of my own-- there is a time a place for it). They will have very little loyalty and will be out for themselves... constantly trying to 'trade up'.
I always urge people to think of guilds as a family business. That stockboy you take in all greens and train since day one, will always be loyal and give it his all. That's the kind of word of mouth association that will bring in potential reinforcements that will prove to be an asset later on.
Just a thought.
Omegi Oct 22nd 2007 4:53PM
Find a need and fill it. If all guilds only recruit lvl 70's then what about all the players 1-60. You don't have to level them all. But if you invite enough of them they will have someone to group with.
Advertise to recruit all play styles. Get the casual levelers, the alt-aholics and the pro-gamer. If getting people keyed is the hardest problem then make that your schedule focus. Have certain nights for certain stages of the key. Have 1 or 2 raid nights if you think you can make it.
It also sounds bad but lower your standards. Perhaps recruit based on personality and not just skill or play time. Remember that you are trying to find that need and are filling it but you also need to find that need in the guild. Even the most lazy player can fill a need in the guild. If you have a need for people to be on late at night then look for those players, regardless of level. Even in raiding you can use people that aren't your favorite to fill a need until something better comes along. Treat them with respect and let them know what you want them to do and things will work out. Even a temporary guild member can fill a gap that is missing.
In the same breath you should have a couple trusted people you can openly talk with. Use their opinion to help you with your guild decisions. If someone is useless and no one likes them then perhaps its time to get rid of them. If people will tolerate that person than use them until he has overstayed his welcome.
There are a lot of dynamics to managing guild personnel. I would love to talk more on this but I'm all out of time.
Regis Oct 22nd 2007 9:29PM
I'm the the paladin class leader and officer of my guild. And since we are horde, paladins ain't really easy to find. The top guilds on our server picked them off before they event were ripe. I spent weeks and weeks announcing in recruitment channel and trade channel, with little to no success.
So I tell our guildies to keep an eye out, when they do PUGs or just random quests, for good paladins. And it usually is a better way as your guildies can see with their own eyes what these kind of people are like, and vice verse.
Sometimes when we are 4 guildies running a heroic and no other from the guild can join we take a random that maybe someone know. We do a perfect heroic run, everyone show that they know what they are doing, and are friendly. After we mention that he played good, and hint that maybe he would be interested in joining us. And the next day that guy apply to us.
We have picked up countless people just this way, without even actively trying to recruit.
Also when I see a level 70 paladin with epic gear standing in a city with no guild, my first impulse is to whisper him to join us. But then he probably get 50 of those whispers a day, why would he join our guild when he can get so much better? I usually finds it better to start a conversation with the guy, discussing random things and being generally nice, not really mentioning that we desperately need him. I want nice people in my guild, not their epic gear, and I intend to show it.
Regis Oct 22nd 2007 9:35PM
To add is that when I was looking for level 70 paladins with decent gear, I got a whisper from a level 60 paladin that wanted help with his paladin epic mount quest (horde). Paladin as I am I have done the same, so I said "oh what the heck" and dragged 2 other guildies to Stratholme and helped the guy. Later we had a conversation and I wanted him to join the guild, and he did. He is now second best geared paladin in our guild, great player and active.
Moral of the story: don't start looking at the top, take in projects from time to time. It will pay off.
Brad P Oct 23rd 2007 9:10AM
This is a post I'd hoped you make on this thread. I just more or less finished taking my guild through this process and then back through it again. So, I have some opinions on in this.
Beyond the simple goal of "someday doing Gruul" is the mentality shift that raiding requires. If you have people that are unwilling to commit to a schedule and are unwilling to do all that is necessary to down a boss then you are going to spend an extraordinary amount of time trying to do new content. So first and foremost, get your own ducks in order.
Recruiting can be done in a variety of means. The important thing to remember is that it is like everything else in this game: great reward comes with great effort. Spamming Chat channels, making forum posts, and other similar tactics are easy, but they also don't get much in terms of results.
If you really want to find good players then do heroic instanc pugs and bring in the class you need as the 5th. Get to know the prospect, learn more about him. Your relationship with this player is very important.
Raiding guilds go through massive attrition. People get burned out, they get impatient, they think they are smarte than the officers because they watched some video on YouTube, etc, etc. 2 Things can hold them together: Progression and/or Friendships. This is probably the most important point I can make. Build your guild up but keep it a strong community of people that like to game with one another. (This isn't easy, sometimes your friends are the slackers metnioend above) Those types or relationships will help you survive when your progression slows down.
My last remark on this topic: As the OP stated, KZ guilds are dime a dozen. rather than compete with all of them and the guilds that are ahead of you who are trying move on, why not merge? IMO this is the best option. You gain 10-15 experienced raiders in exchange for giving up some power.
There are 3 major hurdles in TBC raiding right now: Getting 25 people to Kill Gruul
Progressing Past Gruul
Downing Vashj & Kael
To surpass the 2nd Hurdle you are going to need people that committed to raid schedule and who are willing to be dedicated raiders. Don't lose sight of this. Otherwise you will end up going through this process again.