World of Carebearcraft
by Eric Vice 
Oct 30th 2007 at 4:30PM
A gentleman by the name of Rokhazulu from the guild Sociopath on the Smolderthorn server wrote a post on the general forums this morning that caught my attention.
In his thread titled "World of Carebearcraft", Mr. Rokhazulu cries out to his listeners, extolling the virtues of faction-based player versus player combat that "made Warcraft such a great strategy game for the generations." Mr. Rokhazulu seems to feel that even though the PvP feature is present in World of Warcraft, the PvP spirit is definitely not present.
I know lots of people who PvP. I know lots of people who literally live in battlegrounds. If I'm reading this right, what Rokhazulu wants is violence and carnage. He wants active rivalry and hostility between the two main factions and immersive world PvP.
Checking the server list, I find that Smolderthorn is indeed a PvP server. Are the PvP servers becoming carebear-infested wastelands? Are PvP players becoming – no pun intended – a dying breed? Do you think world PvP in World of Warcraft is viable as it is now? What do you think can be done to improve it?
Filed under: Odds and ends, PvP, Forums, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Newclear Oct 30th 2007 4:36PM
FIRST!
Sylythn Oct 30th 2007 4:45PM
I enjoyed playing on a PvP server from level 1-30. Then I hit the first chokepoint - Tarren Mill/Southshore. And soon after that I'd be hitting the other dreaded chokepoint - STV. Those are what ruined the experience for me, and made me glad I had friends on a PvE server that I could transfer to. I didn't mind fighting for my life, looking over my shoulder, and getting occassionally ganked by much higher-level characters...I did mind getting killed 11 times in 15 minutes trying to do 1 quest. If they could get rid of those chokepoints somehow - I'd be back to a PvP server in a heartbeat.
9600baud Oct 30th 2007 4:45PM
Huh? Obviously he never leveled a toon through TM or STV
Newclear Oct 30th 2007 4:46PM
In all retrospect, i believe it would be viable to allow people on a PvE server to switch to a PvP server. Some people come into this game thinking they want something when the wanted the complete opposite and find out later it's too late to turn around. Let the people who want to transfer to a PvP server transfer. That will help to fill out the PvP base a little more
Krick Oct 30th 2007 4:53PM
I have several toons on Smolderthorn.
The only real world PvP that exists outside of battlegrounds is ganking and camping lowbies in tarren mill/southshore and stranglethorn vale.
The problem, as I see it, is that the top raid and arena gear is SOOOOOO much more powerful than anything the average player has, that it's almost impossible to quest in the aforementioned areas.
There was a time when it would take a level 60 four or five hits to kill a level 30 player, today, a 70 in arena gear can one-shot the guards in Tarren Mill, so lower level players don't stand a chance. When the next expansion comes out, it will get even worse.
Personally, I think a lot of players are on PvP servers because either they didn't know what they were choosing when they first started out, or they had friends who were already on a PvP server that talked them into rolling there. If the cost to transfer characters was cheaper, I guarantee a lot more people would transfer to PvE servers.
WoW is a big enough time sink as it is without having to deal with the frustration of bored 70s killing all the questgivers in Tarren Mill and then repeatedly killing you and camping your level 25 corpse when you're trying to level.
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com
Tridus Oct 30th 2007 4:59PM
Sounds to me like he'd be happier playing FPS deathmatches.
Baluki Oct 30th 2007 5:00PM
I get so tired of people referring to people on Normal servers as "carebears" or whatever. I think I'm going to start referring to people on PvP servers as Serial Killers, because they seem to crave an environment of constant killing and death.
If a PvP server isn't enough killing for you, then you should probably just find another game.
On a related note, I strongly oppose allowing transfers from Normal to PvP servers as someone above me suggested. This would ruin Normal servers, because many players would level up, gear up, and transfer away. Besides, it's best to keep the serial killers locked up on their own servers.
Quoi Oct 30th 2007 5:05PM
His guild is aptly named.
Flippie Oct 30th 2007 7:46PM
Well if they would bring back dis-honor for killing people that are way lower in level then you, that would help with the STV problems along with the the southshore problem. The point of Pvp is for killing players at anytime anywhere that are around your level. Running around STV as a 70 killing 35s donesn't take much skill and it would stop alot of the crying from people that have never played on a Pvp server before.
They could bring back the old honor system too but change it so that you dont have to spend all of your time on making rank and then holding it.
All and all your have to remember there is people of all ages from 12 to even past 50 that do play this game and they all act differently.
Oh and if they would stop nerfing everything everyone cries about too that would be nice. People need to learn how to work around other classes and specs Verus their own.
-Good Hunting-
Buckshot Oct 30th 2007 5:12PM
Without PvP there would be no game. When you see horde in any zone, you kill them, end of story. Make all the servers PvP and stop this "share the zone, share the love" BS mentality.
Mad Cow Oct 30th 2007 5:15PM
I've played on a PVP server since ground 0. World PVP has all but died. Blizzard has actually gone out of their way to curb the "violence" ... case in point, the stealthed guards now roaming the top of orgrimmar buildings ... guards now camping Scarlet Monestary (of all places) on the PTR.
When World PVP was encouraged, it was lame ... see EPL and Silithus world PVP objectives.
I'm waiting for the day they provide packs of 10 guards as quest escorts in Hillsbrad and Stranglethorn.
While I don't really care for same faction PVP or absolute carnage ... I miss being able to stroll into and Ally town and jack up some flagged noobs before 300 freaking guards spawn on my bear ass.
@Krick
Since patch 1.8 ... I agree with you ... most of the "world" PVP is ganking, camping lowbie areas, or instance camping. It's because, like you said, Blizzard has made an effort to distance the new content from the old content ... instead of interweaving the two, we are stuck with the Azeroth of old, and Outlands - the giant instance.
The population discrepancies on many servers doesn't help. I remember STV in the days of old when I couldn't kill a mob without getting run over by a ZG raid, having to fight off an ally for a mob kill, or having to stealth around to make sure it was cool to pop out and attack something only to get ganked as soon as I popped out to get my quest on. Today, you are either on the big grind to get to Outlands or you are in outlands on the big grind to 70. I get more waves from allies now than I do from Horde. People just want to get to Outlands as fast as possible.
The level/stat difference between gear a player gets from 1-60 and from 60-70 is asinine. The biggest difference between an item level and player level before BC was 10. Now look at the level difference between items and players ... it's over 10 points HIGHER than 100% of the players level (Level 70 - Item Level 151) ... WTF? Most crits at level 70 will one shot a level 60 ... I can't ever remember one shotting a level 20 when I was level 30.
This IS becoming the World of Carebearcraft ...
pkeller Oct 30th 2007 5:17PM
You cannot allow PvE transfers to PvP servers as everyone who did suffer and level their character up in the hostile environment would be robbed of their efforts. Posters like #7 are just idiots (retardbears), not everyone signs up on PvP servers for senseless killing. Most of us signed up to get the more realistic feel of the game. PvE servers completely fly in the face of the entire history of this franchise. Ashenvale should not be a big pretty forest where Orcs and NElves sit down for tea and watch butterflies. When I run my alts around STV, TM, 1k, Ashenvale, or any contested territory and run into alliance it brings out the spirit of the franchise. It gets tense, you can engage or avoid, you read what they are likely to do, and you either fight or slowly and cautiously circle eachother and they go along your way. That kind of interaction is what makes PvP servers so real.
Granted ganking can be annoying if it is overdone, but it is an accepted part of playing on the server, kill me once, fine I was bested. 3 or more times and I will be sure to keep letting you kill me so I can report you. Some people are in the spirit of the server, others are jerks, just report as necessary.
Paul Oct 30th 2007 5:18PM
if the game had some mechanic that only allowed you to attack players your level or higher, then i might join a pvp server.
with counterstrike, halo, etc, as i understand it, you're on equal footing, with only how baddass a player you are separating you from others.
but with wow, what separates you, a level 32 in STV, and the level 70 who ganked you is much, much better gear making it not even fun.
would anyone play halo if your opponent got to run around in the crazy armor suit and a gravity hammer and you were given a pair of boxers and a bow and arrow? i think not.
Jake W Oct 30th 2007 5:33PM
Hmmmm He must not have been in nagrand last night =\
I have a couple toons on smolderthorn including my main, and I was in nagrand last night for hours fighting in amazing PVP battles against alliance (HORDE FTW!).
irwin49 Oct 30th 2007 5:43PM
I play on Deathwing, a PvP server, and hate the leveling process. I'm sure if you stacked the number of times I got ganked by a 60 (and now 70's) on top of one another they'd go to the moon and back. And it's always when you just need to finish a few more quests to reach the next level.
I had a friend playing on a PvE server and started a toon over there. I stopped playing that toon when I realized it was boring for me not to get ganked. Ask someone who's playing on a PvE server if they fear a high level and they'll laugh and say no. Ask someone on a PvP server and they shudder and say "Run. Run for you life." It's the fear I get when I see a name in red and those dreaded "??" that made me start leveling an alt. Maybe it's just me. I love survival horror games, and getting ganked kind of has the same feel.
Candina@WH Oct 30th 2007 5:49PM
Ganking does not equal PVP. It is sort of missing that middle leter - versus. I, a level 70, gank a lowbie who can't even land a blow on me. This is not versus, this is execution. And I abhor it. I must admit, I have spent Time in TM/SS and STV counter ganking -- killing 60s and 70s who are killing lowbies. Now, that is PVP. ;-)
And I agree with @13. Halaa is probably the best Non-BG pvp out there. Even the bombing raids are fun. Though the royal screwing you get on the landing sucks.
If you want to 'fix' PVP, and you are geared and 70, go kill gankers in STV, South Shore and Tarren Mill. It is quite saticfying.
As a matter of fact, that would make GREAT level 70s quests in those zones. 'Go Kill X Allies/Horde' where you only get credit for kills that give you honor, and you lose honor for all kills more than 10 levels below you.
Stoneblade Oct 30th 2007 5:50PM
What it all comes down to is playing styles and personal preference. Some people prefer the competition and action that pvp represents, some don't. I, myself, can't stand it... Not a bit. To me, it seems like so much of an example of how internet anonymity can make people mean-spirited for no reason other than because they *can,* which is not my thing at all. I play WoW, because it's fun and it's a diversion, and not because of any sort of e-rush from killing other players. But, that's me.
I don't see any problem with people who want to heavily pvp, but the day that things get so heavily focused to a side that I'm not comfortable with or have any inkling of fun playing is the day that I quit playing for good.
Wolfstalker Oct 30th 2007 5:59PM
The only difference between PvE and PvP servers is that PvP servers allow ganking.
You can still PvP to your heart's content in Battlegrounds and World pvp objectives like Hellfire and Halaa.
All PvP servers offer is a massively more annoying levelling grind.
exit stencil Oct 30th 2007 6:08PM
They _literally_ live in battlegrounds?
Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine that when people misuse that word they use it in the exact opposite way it was intended.
On topic, PvP is what, in my opinion, makes this game so great. More of it, in any way, would only be a good thing. I've leveled several 70s on PvP servers and I could only imagine ever playing on PvP servers. I have a mage that I can't wait to get into STV. I like being ganked and ganking back, etc. If all the game was killing computer-controlled mobs and instanced battlegrounds it would lose my interest very quickly.
I'm glad they make PvE servers for those of you who get more into the story line or the dungeon-crawls, but those of us who play the game for PvP, with and against other humans, would like more.
Epiny Oct 30th 2007 6:34PM
World PvP or ganking isn't what it use to be. Most people on my PvP server are a live and let live policy.
Course I'm a holy priest so that fits me fine, lack of offense doesn't help me at world pvp.