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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsShaman forums shocked by interrupt changes
by Matthew Rossi 
Nov 5th 2007 at 11:30AM
The official site Shaman forums are revolting. No, I mean they're up in arms over the changes to interrupt in 2.3, specifically diminishing returns and how it's going to affect Earth Shock. The protest seems to be taking the form of a series of posts consisting entirely of a period. (The idea being that Blizzard doesn't listen to shamans anyway, I suppose.)
Now, I agree that putting Earth Shock's interrupt on a diminishing return mechanic, considering that it already locks down a shaman's casting time longer than it does the people you interrupt with it (1 second lockdown on the affected spell of magic vs 1.5 second global cooldown) is a nerf for all shamans. But since it's just in PvP, where all sorts of other mechanics have been reduced or lowered in effectiveness - just ask a mage about hypothermia sometime - I don't think it's really worth all this uproar. While interrupts will be much less effective against others, so will CC of all kind, the shaman's absolute bane.
In the end I expect this to balance out. What do you think? Are the protesters storming the barricades in the shaman forums on the money or is this just a case of that last straw falling on the camel's back?
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, PvP, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Fraufrau Nov 5th 2007 12:47PM
More shaman issues, seemingly ignored by the CMs/Devs
(in no particular order)
Gear Itemisation - terrible for elemental and even worse for enhance (hunter mail is NOT good enough)
Elemental DPS nerf - consensus on the shaman forums from GOOD data and extensive testing is somewhere between 5-15% LESS damage, we were told it would at the least be a 0% change if not a buff
Susceptibility to CC - the game is heavily biased around CC, if the devs dont want shaman to hav CC (since they gave druids our CC aka Cyclone) we need more ACTIVE anti-cc measures not hoping the stick in the ground will pulse in time or is off it's cooler - this is especially devastating to Enhance shaman
Superfluous Talents - there are talents which shamans must choose that are essentially useless, it is that the trees are bloated they just hav a lot of crap we need to get thru to reach the decent talents, especially in Enhance and Elemental trees
Poor scaling - at BlizzCon 07 it was stated by a Blizzard Presenter that shamans had scaled badly from 60-70 and it was something they would look in to. Well they havent, 2.3 has addressed very little issues regarding our scaling. The havent buffed a single totem since 2.3 release (stoneclaw does NOT count nor does extra duration on mana/health totems)
Totem system - most unreliable buffing system in the game, it is static and can be removed by a lvl 1 toon and their melee weapon, couple this with totem reliability issues such as the pulsing totems.
As u can see our PvP viability is our greatest concern and not our PvE, because we hav adapted and accounted for our inadequacies for PvE but reached our limits in PvP some time ago
Ahoni Nov 5th 2007 12:49PM
Whaaa. They didn't give me what I wanted. Whaaa.
Yes, the shaman have some valid complaints. But basically, this is a big QQ fest. I'm sorry they didn't address your concerns in the way you wanted. I'm sorry they don't reply often enough for your taste. I'm sorry you feel neglected. Here's a cookie. Now learn to play the game using the rules they give us. If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. Any questions?
Xoshe Nov 5th 2007 12:53PM
@12
I would have to say that unless you do know exactly what their job consists of, it's unfair to assume that what you think is so easy, is actually so. Now I don't know everything that their job pertains, but with what little I know, I'm positive that posting in every suggestion thread is actually unfeasible, for at least 2 reasons.
Firstly, as they mention many times, they do not moderate a single class forum, but are spread out across many. In this light, posting "I've seen and passed on" in every thread across multiple class boards, on top of all the other moderation actions they need to make in the same boards, starts to become unfeasible.
Another thing, which is something they've mentioned before, is that making a post creates an expectation which is not necessarily true. If they said the feedback was passed on, people expect that things will change as they want. In this light, it's easier to pass on feedback with the understanding that people don't NEED to be told.
As for your last point, I would have to disagree. Shamans are NOT the only class with removable 41 point talents. For example:
- Druids: Tree Of Life is considered an Elemental, and thus can be Banished.
- Hunters: Silencing Shot can be resisted and dispelled.
- Mage: Slow can be dispelled, and Water Elementals can be Banished.
- Paladin: Avenger's Shield can be resisted or counterspelled (though to be honest, it's not meant to be used -in- combat, so it shouldn't really count).
- Priests: Vampiric Touch can be dispelled.
- Warlock: Unstable Affliction can be dispelled (even if there's a penalty), and Felguards can be Banished (which also totally wrecks a Demo 'Lock).
Deusmortis Nov 5th 2007 1:05PM
So many thoughts on this issue. First, a few responses:
@12: Fewest raid spots as DPSers? Ret paladin, Sub rogue, MM hunter, Frost mage, Balance druid... If you said that Elemental was the least used DPS spec, I could almost agree, but the effects of an Enhance shaman in a melee group cannot be ignored. Your other points, however, are excellent.
@13: WHAT? Nobody would notice if the shaman were gone? I won't even dignify this remark with a proper response.
I think that the DR on interrupts is the last issue amongst many that have driven my hybrid bretheren over the edge. ES is still very useful. How many of you actually spammed it every time the CD was up? If you did, your opponents need to understand what it means to los. A well timed ES can be devastating, and deprive someone of heals for 5 seconds.
I wish you guys luck in the coming months. Like many classes, Blizzard seems to have no concept of how a shaman is played.
Jared Nov 5th 2007 1:32PM
They arent NERF's, they are FIXES.
When one class clearly dominates in pvp then there Obviously something wrong and it needs to be fixed.
Stop bitching and learn how to play your class better.
Xip Nov 5th 2007 1:45PM
@6 Oh I thoroughly agree the fight won't last long enough for diminishing returns to kick in, want to know why? You'll be dead :D
On my Priest I was able to kill well kitted out level 70 Shaman at 64 without much trouble. Earth shield? Dispel it, Enhancement? Kite them, Elemental? Silence... Shaman in general - fear. One, 28 second cooldown, fear is enough to own a Shaman.
I started playing the class while this was true, but while it was also true that 'one well placed windfury will own a clothie' and that 'CL > LB > FS' wouldn't leave your opponent with any visible health.
In short I chose the class because it was a kill fast or be killed class, not this squishy mess it is today.
ralph Nov 5th 2007 1:49PM
ok i have a lvl 70 lock and a 53 shammy lock even though they got nerfed i dont even fell the change so what fear got a daminished return big deal we have death coil and howl of terror so its not a big deal for me as for shammy they always nerf them for no good reason i fight a estimated 5-7 mobs and all my mana is gone the only thing that did give us an edge was the earth shock it would inturrup fear or pallys heals our grouding totem that supposidly stop fears works like shit we still run away for like 1-2 sec in that time i feard so many shammys on my lock that grounding totem didnt help for shit only earth shock had an effect but it has a 6sec cool down so whats the point in nerfing it its not like it would make u completely stop castin for more them 3sec in that time i could get feard polymorped anything cause thier cast time for that move is so short shammys gettin nerfed is bull i cant even take out a rouge as a shammy as soon as one saps me i dont even try 2 fight back our earthbind totem use 2 make rouges unstealth but they nerfed that to shammys need alot of fixing our mana is crap cc is crap low survivaility in PvP almost evey class owns us totems die 2 easily so why do we need a nerf if we cant even kill a warlock, mage, rouge, hunter, druid easily we lose facing those classes 80% of the time if we do win we have 2 dish out everything we have which leaves us with little mana and defencless if any of those classes trys 2 kill us agian for wars it depends i dont have trouble killin them wit shammy cause i can heal and my windfury owns in closecombat
so i say blizz really needs to get thier act 2gether and listen 2 the people my opinion is scince shammy is the least played class they really dont care what we have 2 say cause they know its the least play class they would still get millions or even billions of money from people playing other classes so why should blizz even care what ensentive do they have for fixing our class??
Heartless_ Nov 5th 2007 1:50PM
LOL, I am so glad I am back playing Dark Age of Camelot until Blizzard figures out what the hell a Shaman is supposed to be. Maybe someday our totems will become useful :) I r the optimist.
chance Jan 8th 2008 9:05AM
@27 then why exactly are we posting on a WoW site, hrmm?
What I don't understand is, at what point did the players decide they had some kind of say in how Blizz develops the game? Offering advice is fine, a waste of time IMO, but to have expectations that blizz will make decisions based on that advice is a waste.
The purpose of the forums isn't for characters to QQ blizz. Its for players to have class based discussions with other players.
Blizz makes buff/nerf decisions based on classes it feels are OP through hard evidence. Yes, it has the evidence. See, blizz runs the servers...
ZOMG IF BLIZZ DOESN'T MAKE [insert my class here] TEH PWNZERS I WILL /QUIT. Buh bye, -> door.
Patrick Nov 5th 2007 2:16PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2766069928&sid=1
Mark Chisholm Nov 5th 2007 2:17PM
NOTE: The silence DR change has been reverted/canceled.
see below:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2766069928&sid=1
twh Nov 5th 2007 2:25PM
As a paladin, I can only say that this, as in the repeal to DR on spell school lock outs, is disappointing, since paladins are the only class that rely heavily on a single spell school and when that gets locked down, they're basically screwed.
PhyerFly Nov 5th 2007 2:58PM
This change has been completely reverted.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2766069928&sid=1
Kahja Nov 5th 2007 3:09PM
Call me in 45 seconds and I'll let you know...
damn it's cold.
Verit Nov 5th 2007 5:20PM
@3
Its worse than you think - have you looked at the most recent patch notes? Every class gets pages and pages of changes - warlocks - 5-6 lines.
Its not because they didn't change anything - they did - but its up to the community to find out what. The last 2-3 fear nerfs happened with NO MENTION in the patch notes.
Shamans have it easy - at least they let you know your being nerfed.
I suspect the reason they don't talk about changes (buffs or nerfs) about warlocks is they get it from everyone - not just the warlocks.
Hesed Nov 6th 2007 1:24AM
I think they need to just go ahead to the final end of all the BG changes and just remove all pets and moves from the BG. Just leave the basic attack. That will make it more interesting.
aratan Nov 6th 2007 10:04AM
@26 - please invest in both a new caps lock key and a new period key. You probably make some good points in your post, but it is far too unofrmatted.
Angus Nov 6th 2007 10:40AM
@22: He meant offensively dispelled. But even then you are off.
- Druids: Tree Of Life is considered an Elemental, and thus can be Banished.
That's not a dispel. That's CC, by 1 class.
- Hunters: Silencing Shot can be resisted and dispelled.
Resist is not a dispel. Defensively dispelled, 2-3 classes.
- Mage: Slow can be dispelled, and Water Elementals can be Banished.
Defensively dispelled (2-3 classes) and CC by 1 class.
- Paladin: Avenger's Shield can be resisted or counterspelled (though to be honest, it's not meant to be used -in- combat, so it shouldn't really count).
Resist is not a dispel.
- Priests: Vampiric Touch can be dispelled.
Defensively. (2-3 classes)
- Warlock: Unstable Affliction can be dispelled (even if there's a penalty), and Felguards can be Banished (which also totally wrecks a Demo 'Lock).
Again, 2-3 classes and a CC with a single class. AND if you do dispel it, you are an idiot.
Shaman:
Totem of Wrath: 5hps, a macro can be made to kill it without even changing targets.
Shamanistic Rage: 5 of 9 classes can kill it without any need to spec into anything. Prot warriors can now too.
Earth Shield: 5 of 9 can kill it.
See the disparity?
@34:
SO warlocks are the only people to get hit with undocumented nerfs? REALLY?
Windfury. 3 second cooldown was never stated and in fact it took a bunch of posts saying there was a bug to get them to admit to it. Then we get told that they are supposed to be shared cooldowns which is clearly BS.
A nerf that dropped close to 15% of the shaman's damage and caused an itemization issue is not documented. Now I have to pass on purple daggers because if I don't my DPS goes DOWN even though they are 30DPS higher than my current weapon.
Yea, Shaman have a right to be a little mad when this and a bunch of issues keep getting ignored.
T-4 Nov 9th 2007 7:32PM
@22:
I know it was addressed, but those are for 1 41 talent point, and 2 in the case of Mage. The Elemental issue is a CC, though, and is a bit different.
Regardless, that is only 1 tree, and all 3 of the Shaman's tree's 41 point talent is easily dealt with, 1 being dealt with by all 9 classes with ease.
Rabbit Nov 22nd 2007 10:26AM
For anyone trying to read post @ 26:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/