Shifting Perspectives: That special versatility, part 2 -- Synergy in action
Every Tuesday, Shifting Perspectives explores issues affecting druids and those who group with them, brought to you by Dan O'Halloran and David Bowers.
Last week, we talked about the hope that druids could someday get to use the full spectrum of their abilities, rather than being narrowly confined to the small subset related to whatever role they perform in a group. Today, I'd like to share with you some practical examples of the sorts of things druids should be able to do, and I would welcome you to share your feedback based on your own experiences playing a druid, as well as your hopes for the future.
To be clear I must reiterate that I'm not at all talking about the power of druids in relation to other classes here. As many others have shown countless times over, druids are fully capable of performing any of the major roles in the game, tanking, damage and healing, as well as or even better than other classes in some cases. The topic at hand right now is only a matter of playstyle: if druids are to perform their role well by integrating the entire spectrum of their abilities rather than by mashing the same few buttons over and over, what would this synergy mean? How would it feel to play the druid in this new way? How could we remain just as effective as we are now, while at the same time being less limited.
To begin, I'm going to assume that you think this synergy is a good idea. I'll assume, for example, that when you're tanking in bear form, you'd like to be able to make use of your healing and damage spells effectively as well -- certainly not to the same degree that a Balance or Restoration druid would, but possibly in some way that not only healed your friends and did more damage, but also helped you tank better overall. Likewise, I'll assume that many Restoration and Balance druids out there would like to be able to use Bear and Cat forms more often as well. We druids have some of the widest variety of abilities of any class in the game, after all, and without true synergy, there's no room for the finesse other classes can use when bringing their full set of skills to their one task.
So here are some ways that I think we could be using all of our abilities no matter which role we've chosen. These are just my own personal ideas, which are certainly not perfect in themselves, but I hope they give a clearer picture of what I have in mind. I'll begin with a feral druid mixup we might try in patch 2.3 (though I fear it would be problematic).
Suppose I'm tanking in bear form and I see my healers running low on mana, so I cast Barkskin and automatically go into caster form taking 20% less damage. This is hopefully enough to let me use Tranquility to prevent my group from dying. Tranquility then finishes with me having a moment left in Barkskin to Innervate the main healer before I switch back to Bear form to resume tanking. This same technique should ideally work for offensive spells like Hurricane too, and perhaps allow me to Moonfire several targets before going back to Bear form. This ought to be a relatively safe procedure that any good druid could pull off without sending the group into a panic. Alternately, if we needed a lot of damage during the final portion of a fight (as in many boss fights), I think Barkskin ought to be strong enough to let me shift out of bear, toss a HoT on myself, and tank in cat form for a short while in order to do as much damage as possible, much like warriors using their Recklessness ability.
I'm neither a Restoration druid nor a Balance druid, so I'll have to leave detailed explanations of what exactly their synergy should feel like to others. Nonetheless, I can venture to make some guesses: What if, as a Restoration druid, you had a talent that let you cast Bear form's "Frenzied Regeneration" on others? That way, you wouldn't have to completely stop healing if you happen to pull aggro and need to shift to bear form. What if your +healing gear also gave an attack power buff when in cat form, so that you could do a bit of helpful damage when healing isn't needed, or when you are soloing on your own?
What if, as a Balance druid, your +spell damage gear also gave your Cat form some attack power for when you run out of mana? What if your Moonkin mana-on-melee procs worked while in Bear form or Cat form as well, only moreso, so that the best way for you to regain mana would be to shift to feral form and keep fighting? Would Balance druids want any reason to be in other forms while they still had a good amount of mana left, and if so, how might that work out?
Some may argue that sort of topic is that is mere speculation, but in fact it is helpful for the players of any class to try to get a clear idea of how they hope their class will develop in the future based on their experience of the class as it is now. Of course many classes say, "Buff me plz," but druids could be unique in telling Blizzard, "We're just powerful enough, thank you. Now please help us use all of our abilities more, instead of just a few."
After all, isn't versatility what being a druid is really about? It's a big job for designers, for sure, but ultimately the druid talents should promote both specialization as well as versatile use of all the class' abilities in one way or another. Nothing should force you to shift around, of course, but you should feel that shifting around makes you more useful than just staying in one shape, doing just one thing. Perhaps one day this sort of creative use of the complete spectrum of druid abilities will be expected of all competent druids.
Last week, we talked about the hope that druids could someday get to use the full spectrum of their abilities, rather than being narrowly confined to the small subset related to whatever role they perform in a group. Today, I'd like to share with you some practical examples of the sorts of things druids should be able to do, and I would welcome you to share your feedback based on your own experiences playing a druid, as well as your hopes for the future.
To be clear I must reiterate that I'm not at all talking about the power of druids in relation to other classes here. As many others have shown countless times over, druids are fully capable of performing any of the major roles in the game, tanking, damage and healing, as well as or even better than other classes in some cases. The topic at hand right now is only a matter of playstyle: if druids are to perform their role well by integrating the entire spectrum of their abilities rather than by mashing the same few buttons over and over, what would this synergy mean? How would it feel to play the druid in this new way? How could we remain just as effective as we are now, while at the same time being less limited.
To begin, I'm going to assume that you think this synergy is a good idea. I'll assume, for example, that when you're tanking in bear form, you'd like to be able to make use of your healing and damage spells effectively as well -- certainly not to the same degree that a Balance or Restoration druid would, but possibly in some way that not only healed your friends and did more damage, but also helped you tank better overall. Likewise, I'll assume that many Restoration and Balance druids out there would like to be able to use Bear and Cat forms more often as well. We druids have some of the widest variety of abilities of any class in the game, after all, and without true synergy, there's no room for the finesse other classes can use when bringing their full set of skills to their one task.
So here are some ways that I think we could be using all of our abilities no matter which role we've chosen. These are just my own personal ideas, which are certainly not perfect in themselves, but I hope they give a clearer picture of what I have in mind. I'll begin with a feral druid mixup we might try in patch 2.3 (though I fear it would be problematic).
Suppose I'm tanking in bear form and I see my healers running low on mana, so I cast Barkskin and automatically go into caster form taking 20% less damage. This is hopefully enough to let me use Tranquility to prevent my group from dying. Tranquility then finishes with me having a moment left in Barkskin to Innervate the main healer before I switch back to Bear form to resume tanking. This same technique should ideally work for offensive spells like Hurricane too, and perhaps allow me to Moonfire several targets before going back to Bear form. This ought to be a relatively safe procedure that any good druid could pull off without sending the group into a panic. Alternately, if we needed a lot of damage during the final portion of a fight (as in many boss fights), I think Barkskin ought to be strong enough to let me shift out of bear, toss a HoT on myself, and tank in cat form for a short while in order to do as much damage as possible, much like warriors using their Recklessness ability.
I'm neither a Restoration druid nor a Balance druid, so I'll have to leave detailed explanations of what exactly their synergy should feel like to others. Nonetheless, I can venture to make some guesses: What if, as a Restoration druid, you had a talent that let you cast Bear form's "Frenzied Regeneration" on others? That way, you wouldn't have to completely stop healing if you happen to pull aggro and need to shift to bear form. What if your +healing gear also gave an attack power buff when in cat form, so that you could do a bit of helpful damage when healing isn't needed, or when you are soloing on your own?
What if, as a Balance druid, your +spell damage gear also gave your Cat form some attack power for when you run out of mana? What if your Moonkin mana-on-melee procs worked while in Bear form or Cat form as well, only moreso, so that the best way for you to regain mana would be to shift to feral form and keep fighting? Would Balance druids want any reason to be in other forms while they still had a good amount of mana left, and if so, how might that work out?
Some may argue that sort of topic is that is mere speculation, but in fact it is helpful for the players of any class to try to get a clear idea of how they hope their class will develop in the future based on their experience of the class as it is now. Of course many classes say, "Buff me plz," but druids could be unique in telling Blizzard, "We're just powerful enough, thank you. Now please help us use all of our abilities more, instead of just a few."
After all, isn't versatility what being a druid is really about? It's a big job for designers, for sure, but ultimately the druid talents should promote both specialization as well as versatile use of all the class' abilities in one way or another. Nothing should force you to shift around, of course, but you should feel that shifting around makes you more useful than just staying in one shape, doing just one thing. Perhaps one day this sort of creative use of the complete spectrum of druid abilities will be expected of all competent druids.
Filed under: Druid, (Druid) Shifting Perspectives, Analysis / Opinion







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
anon Mar 13th 2008 6:09AM
the main thing they could do to encourage this type of play is buff the 21 pt talents...right now with druids FFF and nature's grace aren't that great unless that's the tree you're already speccing into...NS is nice but they should all be worth the trade off of a higher talent from your main tree...and it wouldn't be tough for them to tack on a synergistic 3 tree bonus onto a 1 pt talent that should already be there to encourage hybrid style specs
Wulfhere Nov 6th 2007 5:22PM
For years now, druids have argued that having the ability to tank as well as a warrior, DPS as well as a rogue, heal as well as a priest and cast as well as a mage isn't overpowered because they can only do one with a specific spec. Except for feral, of course, because you can tank OR dps with the same spec, you just need to switch gear around and change forms.
The idea that you should be able to use all of your abilities in this fashion basically says "We were lying about that in order to get made overly powerful, now we want the ability to do it all at once." It is tremendously out of the scope of the game to allow a tanking druid to shift into caster, cast tranquility, innervate the main healer, and go back into bear form. What paladin or warrior could match that kind of power? Why would anyone bring anything but a druid to tank for them?
Will we even have other classes or will we all just be druids?
No, no, a thousand times no.
andyjay220 Nov 6th 2007 5:26PM
I don't want to say druids are OP'd, and I know that you're not proposing that druids can heal, tank, and spell DPS across the board. However, I like that my feral can't use spells or heals well, and my friends resto druid can heal well but can't really tank. That's what makes the talent part so much fun. Not only does it distinguish characters, but it makes your choices have consequences. You shouldn't be able to be awesome at everything, you have to pick a playstyle. WoW is nice enough to let us respec if we hate what we become.
Take this to the extreme and you're saying every class should be able to do everything. Rogues in plate, priests with pyroblast, etc. I know that's a stretch, and I do try to avoid the slippery slope arguments. I like specializing, even with my "hybrid" class. Don't make my feral heal/cast...please...don't make him...!
bodar Nov 6th 2007 5:42PM
The balancing factor must be preserved:
- Druids should be able to tank, DPS, or heal competitively to other classes when specced/geared accordingly.
- If a druid is NOT specced/geared for a particular role, his versatility must come with the price of somewhat reduced effectiveness in all three areas. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
The key is to convince the oftentimes narrow-minded player base that such versatility is a good thing. The inherent problem is that when everyone has a defined role, you can predict what other people are going to do. When you have one or more "floaters", the communication level needs to be almost perfect to keep things going smoothly and avoid redundancy (e.g., over-healing).
technicaldiva Nov 6th 2007 5:56PM
I think you are mistaking well played with over powered. The ability to pop out of bear, innervate a healer and go back to bear and tank is not overpowered. No more than a Paladin healing himself (which also generates aggro or popping LoH on himself). Warriors can shield wall and pot (bears can't pot). Every class has something that helps them play their class well. The knowledge to know when and how to apply these abilities to a situation seperates the pros from the noobs. Yes, druids have a lot of utility, but any class can be overpowered if the class is well played. I hate to say this but L2P. Also cats can't DPS like rogues. The majority of rogues are DPS'n like mad because they stunning people and just working them over so that people can't do anything to them. Druids can't stun like a rogue, our DPS is not like a rogue. Druids come close on every tree to compete with other classes but they always come up just a little short. Again, just because one druid is extrememly well played doesn't mean all druids are overpowered.
Quoi Nov 6th 2007 5:54PM
If your Balance idea somehow came to fruition, why would anyone bring a mage to a raid? Or play a mage for that matter? "Oh, I'm OOM, but that's ok, let me just go melee this nub to death and get mana back while doing it!"
It makes no sense that you should be able to do all things at once.
technicaldiva Nov 6th 2007 6:01PM
My mage wands to get mana back all the time. Who raids without a Pally to put some wisdom on that mob for ranged dps?
Stig Nov 6th 2007 6:05PM
The point is not to make a druid tank so OP that you would never want a warrior or pally to do the job. But actually...a pally CAN toss a heal out when they need to even while tanking, but do you call that OP? No. Because thats how they work.
The thing that originally drew me to the druid was exactly because it could do so much! Had I known then that I would get stuck into one role or another, I would have chosen one of the classes the druids roles are based off of. A druid shouldn't HAVE to be just another warrior, mage, priest, or rogue. A druid should be able to use all of their abilities, thats all that the OP is saying. Obviously there should be SOME kind of trade off. I shouldn't be able to shift out of bear while tanking without there being SOME risk. Nor should I be able to jump from Moonkin to cat and do just as much damage as I was before. But does that mean that when I do switch from moonkin to cat that I shouldn't be able to do at least SOME kind of decent damage? No. It doesn't.
A good druid should be able to use ALL of their abilities. How many bars do your bear abilities fill? One. Less than one in fact. Cat spills on to 2 if you're feral spec'd, assuming you keep cower and feral FF on your bars. A warrior has to use several bars to keep all of their abilities out, and to use them all they have to do is change their stance. I don't see much of a difference between a warrior being able to switch into zerker and a druid being able to go to cat without fear of being one shotted.
Even the OPs suggestion of Bear > Barkskin > Tranq > Innervate > Bear shouldn't be out of the question. Its not OP either. First off tranq is on a 10 min CD so its not like it would be something that could be done every pull. Nor would a tranq in feral gear be too effective except as a desperate measure. Other classes have "OH CRAP" buttons. We don't really have those (except resto with NS). So why shouldn't we be able to use our existing abilites creatively to compensate for our purposeful lack of the "OH CRAP" button?
A druid should by no means be able to fulfill any of 4 roles just as well as the "parent classes" can. But that doesn't mean that a druid shouldn't be able to fulfill one of those roles just as well by combining abilities from several of those roles, does it?
Urthona Nov 6th 2007 6:22PM
Quoi's a bit confused. He begins by speechifying about how a druid needs to be geared correctly to effectively compete with its analogous class.
Then he sugests that a cat druid in caster gear is somehow effective DPS against a mob.
*******
Better this time around Bowers. I understand now what you're getting at. I fully support the idea of catform as mana regeneration form. I'd also support the idea of transitioning to catform as an aggro dump for Moonkin and Trees.
Quoi Nov 6th 2007 6:33PM
@8
No, I'm not confused. David specifically said that it might be a good idea to let spell damage translate into cat form attack power. That would make a druid with no mana in caster gear more effective DPS than a mage with no mana in caster gear.
It's you who is confused.
@6
You can't always count on JoW being up. Most of our pallies heal, and can't sacrifice that to run in and refresh Wisdom.
BigBear Nov 6th 2007 7:14PM
As a person who has played his druid for almost 3 years now, I must say that as a class, we are at the best spot we have ever been. In fact - I am extremely happy with how our class plays right now. We do exactly what we are supposed to. Have the ability to fill any role though not as good as a specialist class.
The lack of synergy that I think the author feels, and that alot of others feels is not to do with the way our class is balance, becuase in fact, the lack of synergy you describe is felt by many classes.
Its a result of two game mechanics that unfortunately work hand in hand. The first is the talent trees, and the second is the highly specialised focus of end game content.
In the first instance, the talent trees in themselves prevent syngery across alot of classes (Shamans, Palidans, Warriors and druids are all good examples). Picking a talent tree for these classes defines your role. This is at odds with a class like a mage or a warlock where picking your talent tree defines HOW you do your role.
Coupled with the fact that end game content requries specialised builds (The best end game tank is 31+ pt prot warrior, 31pt+ prot pali opr 31pt+ feral druid) to be effective and you can understand why people complain about the synergy of their class, about respec costs and about other classes who are percieved as being able to do all everything in the game regardless of talent build.
Blizzard needs to take a serious look at all "hybrid" classes talents and talent trees. Their recent change to make 1/3 healing equal spell damage shows that they are aware of the problem and are at least addressing it somewhat. I would prefer a solution that is more of a quick fix but then with WOTLK coming soon, I expect any changes to be held till then.
Personally - I would like to see hybrid builds (talents spread across all trees) to have some viability in game play but realise this is too much of a game change to happen.
Stig Nov 6th 2007 7:40PM
@Quoi
I don't think that he would suggest making the Spell Damage -> AP conversion a very high one. Probably something in the range of 1/3 like the +Heal to +Spell power thats being introduced in 2.3. That doesn't make a druid in spell damage gear a GOOD cat by any means. But what it does do is make it so that, if coupled with faster regen on hit in cat form, a moonkin can at least contribute a little while OOM and regening mana. And your suggestion that it would make a moonkin more desirable than a mage is, I think, a bit unfounded. Technically a moonkin can already DO this - switch to cat when low on mana and wait for regen - and do more damage than a mage that is OOM and wanding does. But that doesn't mean that people take a druid over a mage now, so why would that change?
@ Bigbear
I agree with your assessment of the end-game raiding situation - ie. it for the most part encourages, if not requires, specialization.
However, I don't entirely agree that the druids lack of synergy is shared by other classes. All of the other classes you mentioned can use all of their abilities while preforming a specialized task. A pally can throw a heal or 2 even while tanking. A shaman can nuke away even while healing, and a warrior can tank even if they are there for DPS. The real problem with druids is that we have 4 major roles we can fill: melee DPS, caster DPS, healing, and tanking. While it is quite possible for a moonkin to off heal, a healer to do some ranged dps (with the right spec), a cat to tank, or a tank to melee, we are still neglecting over 1/2 of what our class offers.
Now, I know a lot of you are thinking "If you can use all your abilities that would be SO OP!!! NERF DR00DS NOW!!!!" The point is not to let me DPS like a mage and heal like a priest while Off-tanking some trash. The point is to let me be a more effective tank by also throwing around a couple emergency heals, and maybe a moonfire, then switching to cat at the end of a fight to finish off the mob. The heals wouldn't be big, the moonfire wouldn't hit hard, and as a cat I wouldn't be out DPSing any rogues. But I used ALL of my abilities in the fight. Pallies can already DO this kind of thing. They tank, generating a lot of their threat BY casting, can heal in the middle of a fight, even while tanking, and can do OK dps when the mob they are tanking is down, all while giving the group a passive buff and offering them mana regen, or health regen, or additional damage, while hitting the target.
That is the kind of play that the OP is getting at I think. That is what I rolled a druid to do originally. Sure, I think that as a class, we're better off than we ever have been with three VIABLE trees to chose from. But, I want a fourth option - the do it all and still be valuable to the group option. I don't need to be the best at anything, just good enough at it all so that a group still wants me and I can make a valuable contribution. Druids should be a great 5th man option - have your tank, have your heals, have your dps - bring a druid for utility.
Kadaan Nov 6th 2007 7:41PM
Barkskin's 20% damage reduction doesn't come close to comparing with the ~60-75% damage reduction you have in bear form. Unless you're taking something with lots of AE and no physical damage, shifting out to tranq will most likely wipe your party.
The riskiest thing I've done is pop moroes' pocketwatch + badge of tenacity for the massive dodge bonus to shift out to innervate a healer while MT'ing.
T Nov 6th 2007 7:46PM
Another Druid QQ post about how they want to be able to do everything as good as other classes.STFU already here well let you tank,heal,DPS ranged and melee ,we will throw in a combat pet a 3rd profession,and you can create gold as needed.Since your a druid that wouldnt be overpowered
Stig Nov 6th 2007 7:49PM
@T
Did you even READ the post? Its not about doing everything as well as everybody else. Its about being able to use all our abilities to fulfill one role, instead of only using the "mini" versions of other classes abilities.
andyjay220 Nov 6th 2007 7:54PM
To all the posters saying that this isn't OP'd, that's not even the point. The main thing that makes an MMO so interesting is the various ways you can customize your class so that it has UNIQUE strengths AND weaknesses. If you are good at tanking, you have to give up healing (and yes, the same is true for pally, my tankadin SUCKS at healing, and certainly can't waste mana on heals while tanking unless I am already getting massive heals to keep my mana up). I like the diversity of the classes and specs, and quite frankly I love that I can get replay value out of the class by leveling as a different spec with a totally different set of strengths and weaknesses.
All of you boo-hooing that your class can't do EVERYTHING need to chill. Even "hybrid" classes can't do it all, you have to lose something to get something. You can whine all day about the things you should have, but in the end you can't have every skill for every situation. Blizz did a nice job creating classes that require interdependency (arguably better with some than others, but the druid class is one that does this pretty well). You can't heal? Guess what, there is probably a healer who would love to do that for you! Group up and be social, it is a multiplayer game after all!
travipoo Nov 6th 2007 8:02PM
@ stig...Andyjay220 pretty Much said exactly how I Feel he just said it better
travipoo Nov 6th 2007 8:05PM
Travipoo=T
Stig Nov 6th 2007 8:08PM
I'm not asking to be able to do everything. I want to USE all my abilities. I understand that by specing feral that I won't be a main healer. I accept and actually appreciate that. I also know that I won't be good at caster DPS. Fine by me. If I could do all 4 roles at once perfectly, it would be OP and also not much fun.
This is about SYNERGY - designing the class so that we can use all our abilities in appropriate situations as a part of a specific role that you are playing. Or, to take it a step farther, make it so that you aren't useless at everything just because you want to be able to do a bit of everything. What is wrong with a class that can pick up a spare add until the tank gets to it, then swtich out, throw some heals, some damage spells, then jump to cat to finish off the mobs? Do I do any of those things really well? No. The heals are a bit weaker, my damage is lower than a DPSer, and the mob hit me harder when I was tanking it. But I did it all, was useful to the group, and made a contribution. Why can't that be an option?
andyjay220 Nov 6th 2007 8:22PM
@18
First of all, except in the case of a raid "support" role I doubt anyone could use such a class for anything since most of its abilities would be gimped.
Second, this notion of "jack-of-all-trades" is exactly what I advocate against. We're mostly talking about groups here, and the reason you shouldn't be able to use every ability in all situations is because then you negate the role of other group members whose soul purpose is to do that thing, thus essentially devaluing them. If the healer can't keep up, the group as a whole should have to adjust to compensate for that, not have some "catch all" character that can make up for poor teamwork and planning. I like MMO's for the teamwork, and for being appreciated for what my class/spec can do for the group.