Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsDude Wheres My Shaman
by Eliah Hecht 
Nov 7th 2007 at 6:00PM
First there was dot shock. Then there was a new PTR build, and for a time, all was peaceful. Now, witness the birth of a new era of Shaman protest: re-rolling. Yes, the Shaman forums are abuzz with posters pledging to re-roll any class but Shaman, on Auchindoun, Horde side. And yes, they have named their guild none other than <Dude Wheres My Shaman>. I'll forgive them the lack of an apostrophe, if only because I really like the movie.To be honest, I don't have enough Shaman experience to know much about the issues here. But I do know a neat idea when I see it, so I logged on to Auchindoun with a newly-minted, creatively-named character, and conducted a very fun group interview with all the ex-shamans there to find out what they were so riled up about. Chat log after the cut (edited for length and grammar -- there was a lot of them, and they were more than happy to talk).
Eliahhecht: OK guys. So, why are you here?
Donakora: I'm here because I want to make a statement to Blizzard.
Fynal: our way to tell blizz they f-d up
Xur: the constant nerfs are just too much and in fact I am waiting on warhammer
Donakora: That silence revert issue is a step in the right direction- But it's far from solving all of our problems.
Donakora: I mean, look at enhancement for god's sake.
Solid: yes all trees need to be raid viable, with the implementation of 2.3. elemental will be obsolete for raiding
Xur: I pay money every week to see the guy I played with for 2 years be set back time and again
Eliahhecht: OK, so what would make you guys happy with the class again?
Eliahhecht: or is it too late at this point?
Donakora: Balance. Just make us bring something to the table that actually sets us apart.
Fynal: totems....gah
Siar: For PvP it's an issue of control
Humnpaladin: Enh to not rely on luck, Ele changes to be reverted, totem system overhaul.
Xur: STOP nerfing DPS, and do not lie about simple math that proves the new Lightning Overload mechanics are a buff
Siar: Totems are immobile, costly, and too many of the best ones are in the same totem tree
Makaveli: and enhancement shamans need a move other then the pvp trinket to get rid of snares/CC, or a CC
Bffeynoix: shamans are currently the only class with out a snare/stun/some way of getting distance in pvp
Siar: It's extremely hard to get groups as any other spec than resto
Donakora: To put it simply, group PvP in this game is about CC and Anti-CC right now. That's simply the way it is. All of the best classes in arena have CCs.
Eliahhecht: So as far as PvE goes, your perception is that all three trees are beaten by other classes?
Clingy: yes, i'll drink to that
Siar: I'd say Resto is the one on par with others
Eliahhecht: Are Shamans in a worse place now than, say, 2.1, or pre-BC?
Makaveli: they could actually contend with the best before BC
Donakora: Before BC, our chain heal mechanics brought something absolutely amazing raid viability
Eliahhecht: Alright, let's see...Mike informs me that Warriors tried something similar, with this whole rerolling thing, and got in trouble for that. Are you worried?
Octo: no
Donakora: [The warriors] crashed the server. We're doing nothing against the ToS.
Humnpaladin: i'll eat a month long ban to see shammies get buffed
Xur: that is part of the problem here ... we PAY [Blizzard] ... and we get crapped on time and again ... I understand you have to cater to the majority but damn...
Eliahhecht: Oh, here's one. Do you think Blizz did anything wrong with their forum moderation during the whole dot-shock thing? I've heard conflicting stories.
Siar: I think a few threads got caught in the crossfire, but...
Abnormality: i got banned for actually proposing a new DoT
Siar: I think they just need to read a little more carefully and moderate specific posts
Makaveli: and talk to the shaman community more and stop lying to us
So there you have it. The reason the re-rollers are re-rolling. What do you think? Do they have a point? Will you be joining them? As of when I logged off, they had over 250 members, and more were joining every few minutes.
[thanks, Smacks]
Edit: The good folks at the Shaman forums would like me to post their summary of the issues as an alternative viewpoint. Elbera puts it as follows:
Elemental DPS is being nerfed despite being told 2.3 would be a buff, it is only a buff to undergeared players, which seriously will hurt Elementals raiding viability. All the 41 point talents are currently dispellable, which severely limits their usefulness.
Enhancement is currently unable to close gaps in pvp against classes that can kite, short of using a trinket cooldown. Warriors, Rogues, and Feral druids (melee) all have ways of closing the distance to a class. ALL shaman specs are currently able to be locked down by stuns and any form of CC for the entire duration of a fight, and all their spells are in one tree with the exception of 2 shocks.
Filed under: Shaman, Events, Virtual selves
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
mike Nov 9th 2007 5:07PM
Pve not too much problems, but Raiding and pvp pretty sad. Whats needed is stonger totums with more HP,shorter cooldowns on shocks. DOT of some kind and also a crowd controll as well. And elemental DPS is just not enough. I belive the improvements to mana pool will help. try playing one you'll see what i mean.
vak Nov 7th 2007 7:09PM
I wonder how many people hear have gotten WF'd to bits Pre-BC and harbored their animosity towards Shaman for 10 lvls :P
Oompa Nov 7th 2007 7:22PM
@32. So the question then is "Where does legitimate voicing of opinion end and QQ begin?" As far as I can see (although admittedly the sections of the chat chosen here to represent the shaman position cover onl the basics of the issue), these are all legitimate concerns that need to be addressed. What other way can someone make another person pay attention but to speak their part?
Also, there does exist a grey area between loving and hating this game so to those saying that we should just quit because this one class we play is broken need to wise up a little. I love the system of this game and generally enjoy my time with it, but I do take issue with how they're handling the shaman problems. Telling us to shut up and get out is a little narrow minded no?
Stormsinger Nov 7th 2007 7:12PM
I feel some sympathy for shaman in general. I think the problem is the mismatch between the player style and the style Blizz has tailored the shaman too. When I started (2 years ago, I don't have the "I've been here since closed beta and stay off my lawn!" cred) and for most of pre-2.0 shaman were a class filled with PvPers. Shaman were generally feared in PvP and were very viable in that style. They were really nasty burst damage that people had to worry about.
Now... not so much. So you have players with the PvP mindset and a class that is best suited to healing. This is not a recipe for a happy player base.
I'd like to see shaman buffed in general and the totem system retooled somehow. I think they can be made viable in both raid and pvp, mainly because the biggest problems that need to be solved in each are decoupled (CC resistance and totem survivability have little effect in raiding while threat reduction and staying power don't matter in pvp).
As for whining and QQ and all that... Well... Welcome to the WoW player base. We all complain when things don't go our way and we all mock others when they do. Just seems to be the way the player base acts. Of course I'm above such things... except when I complain about AV map disparities... but that's a REAL issue!!! ;-)
Cetha Nov 7th 2007 7:31PM
@35 You sir have hit the proverbial nail right on it's head.
smacks Nov 7th 2007 7:31PM
There are three basic roles that play a part in this game. Melee, Ranged, and Healing. Druids can do all of their roles in PvP. Paladins can too. I'm aware that a Warrior doesn't want to PvP as Prot, but he got into the class knowing he was going to melee, and he can definitely do that in PvP. Shaman have the same three roles on their Talent trees, but only one of them is viable for PvP. A lot of Shaman picked up the class and said "Cool, I can do different things with this class. I want to be a caster!" Then when they want to do some high-level PvP, they're told "Sorry, you gotta be a healer."
It's a huge slap in the face to be told we're a hybrid class, able to do what we want within that class, but then be told "Sorry, we only meant that up until you hit 70 and want to PvP".
Alexisonfire Nov 7th 2007 7:57PM
The whole issue with shamans actually made me quit. I only have one 70 and I leveled him straight through as elemental. I love the tree and wouldn't think of changing for enhance or healing. So the lack of support for elementals, both from Blizzard and the WoW community, deeply frustrated and saddened me. Getting a group was a long and difficult trip, even with guildies. And trying to get into a raid or arena team? Pretty much impossible.
I really hope that something will be done soon for not just the elemental tree, but the class in general. Maybe then I will start playing again.
mizatt Nov 7th 2007 8:01PM
24, but why would you bother to delete a geared Shaman with so much work put into it? They do actually change these classes periodically. What alt did you put together that necessitated actually deleting the character? You just flushed countless hours of your life down the tube over some massive (as much as I hate to use this ...) QQ
sirotrax Nov 8th 2007 3:25AM
Actually, you can't put an apostrophe in your guild name.
Spenda Nov 7th 2007 8:16PM
@41: It might be the class, or it might be you.
Humnpaladin Nov 7th 2007 8:18PM
@42, I was being asked to take my alt to a raid over my healing main because the druid could do it better than my shammy, my job was off healing, lifebloom did it better than chain heal with more mana efficiency, the healer group already had another resto shammy for totems and i was totem twisting for the mellee group, i was replaced by an enh shaman and told to dust off my rogue. So, a class that is best suited for healing, is replaced by a class that is a viable tank, healer, and somewhat viable in DPS. I am pissed, i can't stand enh and i was told i would be able to go ele, i went ele, started re-gearing, then saw the 2.3 patch notes and said fuck it. I can easily roll a new shaman, and as i am still part of the guild on my rogue i see no real loss, i'll count it as a statement, i can replace the shaman, but i can't go in and rewrite the code for the ele changes, until then my shaman would be collecting dust.
ShadeofChaoS Nov 7th 2007 8:19PM
FUCK BLIZZARD
Fucking Hypocrites commercial industrial society with retarded developers and idiots CMs
agentaero Nov 7th 2007 8:24PM
I have a lvl 16 shaman, and have been around since right after the BC( my main is a hunter) so I want to know, what are all changes you guys are taling about, how were shamans different before 2.0 to now? as to the purpose of their article, I think while they may have a point(I hope someone will answer my question) I think all they are doing is taking a class that they themselves say nobody wants out of the way, and they are being very loud and whiney about it, get some better descriptions of their issues, write it down, and be calm about it.
travipoo Nov 7th 2007 8:32PM
Yall are not really QQing about keeping up with other classes you just want to dominate.....Waaaaaa blizzard nerfed me and its not easy mode for me anymore
Prox Nov 7th 2007 8:35PM
@46 Loud and whiney? How so? Have you noticed this particular group of shamans being extremely vocal and QQ-prone on the forums? Or maybe we had a totally unoriginal idea about our protest? The shaman forums before the outburst has shown that writing concerns down doesn't seem to work.
twh Nov 7th 2007 8:42PM
When you say, "dude, where's my shaman?", I say, "There over here, sexy-ing up mah Alliance."
anonymoose Nov 7th 2007 8:57PM
Eliah, you will remember me as the person who very harshly criticized an article of yours earlier this week. I want to offer you nothing but applause. I think your questions were well formed, you did a good job trying to succinctly present the responses given the extremely limited space you are provided with, you did something highly creative with your investigative journalist self, and I 100% applaud you for your efforts. Wow, totally amazing.
Additionally--I personally don't notice any bias on your part in this article. You asked questions, layed out the answer and honestly I could see where people would form a variety of conclusions based on the responses. YOU ROCK!
While I do agree that the shaman class needs some serious help, the only flaws in the article might be the sometimes glib responses people give when trying to quickly encapsulate a several year long running problem--it's hard to be brief and profoundly eloquent. That's the nature of the medium I suppose.
Nice job, I'm going to head on over to the forums you linked because you have totally piqued my curiosity. This might be the best WowInsider article I have seen in the last couple of months!
anonymoose Nov 7th 2007 9:07PM
"I have a lvl 16 shaman, and have been around since right after the BC( my main is a hunter) so I want to know, what are all changes you guys are taling about, how were shamans different before 2.0 to now? as to the purpose of their article, I think while they may have a point(I hope someone will answer my question) I think all they are doing is taking a class that they themselves say nobody wants out of the way, and they are being very loud and whiney about it, get some better descriptions of their issues, write it down, and be calm about it."
I can't fully answer your question about this other than to say the struggles in any class may be more glaringly obvious at the higher levels than while leveling. To get a better picture of this I would say go hit up the shaman forums to get an idea of what the specific concerns are--but keep in mind you are an extremely low level right now and have no experience other than "Dude I rock VC/RFC, I don't know what you are talking about."
The other advantage of being level 16 (since you'll notice I'm not saying abandon your shaman) and asking these questions is it gives you time to begin preparing what could be difficulties at higher levels. You can begin watching your AH for specific gear that has advantageous stats that the new patch will make more important--and since you have the benefit of time on your side, you can watch for the lowest prices and then bank until needed.
From another perspective I can say this--pre TBC, if in a pvp environment I happened across a shaman while on my healbot priest, I used to run. They were extremely tough to kill, and could easily take me out. Most immediately post TBC there were only 2 classes my healbot priest could take out solo--warriors and shaman. Some patches down the line, and I can't solo warriors on my healbot priest anymore, but I can still do some damage to a shaman.
Now that I have a max level shaman to go along with max level druid, and max level priest, I can indeed verify that at least for pvp shaman do not have a viable CC. Earthshock offered a small chance to have a way to survive, however the proposed DR would have completely hosed that.
Since I also raid, I've gotten to watch enhancement shaman plummet in value and desirability as you move through the raiding content (past Gruul/Mag). Elemental shaman were actually decently viable for many raid groups, but the incoming patch stands to change that profoundly.
It's a pretty painful thing to build your gear and role on a character, existing problems and all, and then keep going when more nerfs are on the table. I watched that occur on my priest and switched to a shammy to raid--from what I have seen and heard, resto continues to be the most viable of the trees for endgame and even for pvp, however not everyone wants to heal.
Gerb Nov 7th 2007 9:17PM
"Bffeynoix: shamans are currently the only class with out a snare/stun/some way of getting distance in pvp"
LMAO
That must be a retarded and / or low lvl shaman, since shamans have Frost Shock and Earthbind totem.
Wulfhere Nov 7th 2007 9:46PM
Yeah, Earthbind, that'll let a shaman get away from a sprinting, cloak of shadows rogue. And allmight frostshock...
Are you guys playing in early 2006?