Officers' Quarters: Chased out of guild chat
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
Barrens chat. Someday, if WoW becomes popular enough, that phrase could become immortalized in the English language as a synonym for childish, pointless, and offensive blather. Whether it's public offers to cyber or waxing poetic about Chuck Norris' roundhouse kick velocity, if you've ever leveled a Horde toon in the Barrens, you've heard it all. It's one thing to put up with such nonsense for 10 levels. It's quite another to endure it day after day from members of your own guild. What if your guild chat was little better than Barrens chat? Today's letter is from an officer facing this grim situation.
Hi Scott,
Thanks for all the great articles at WoW Insider. You do a fantastic job!
I have a question for you that hopefully you have some insight on [. . .] I'm a member of a successful guild whose core members know each other in real life and have gamed as a group since before WoW. I've been with them since late 2004, and while we've had our ups and down as a guild, having a core like this has kept us alive through it all. I'm now an officer and a raid leader, so I have quite a bit of leverage in the guild.
We have never had any written-down rules about how you should play your character or act while in guild. We stress the basics that any guild should abide by [. . .] We're on a pvp server, and many of the members come into the game to unwind from their daily stress. As such, guild chat can be extremely vulgar. There was one instance a long, long time ago where a black member of the guild gquit because of a few guys BS'ing on gchat and using the 'N' word. I think that day has been forgotten. Gchat has been rife with some pretty controversial word use lately, and I've just been approached by one or two concerned guildies.
Now, I don't want to control anyone. I know that by entering an MMO I'm opening myself up to the rest of the United States. People talk all kinds of smack with their friends when they feel they won't be checked for it. And since most of the guys in the guild know each other IRL and have played online together for 5+ years, they're comfortable with the levels gchat is at. Me, I typically just ignore the channel. What do I tell these concerned guildies? I feel like if I bring up the issue with the other officers -- who are part of the problem -- they will get defensive and a whole can of worms will open up. I'd like to ban a couple of choice words from gchat and [Ventrilo], but I doubt it's possible. Do you have any advice on how to go about this problem carefully?
Thanks a lot!
[Anonymous]
PS: no names please, if you do use this :-)
Thanks for the question, fellow officer. To me, the most telling part of your e-mail was confessing that you just ignore guild chat altogether. That sets off some Gnomeregan-style alarm-bots right there! If you, as an officer, are so offended or put off by the language used or topics discussed in guild chat on a regular basis that you completely ignore the channel, then something is terribly wrong.
It sounds like you've made your peace with it. You've decided the benefits of being in the guild outweigh these offensive conversations. And that would be okay, except for the fact that you aren't the only one affected by it. As one of the few officers (or perhaps the only officer) who isn't part of this group of real-life friends that run the guild, your members are looking to you to establish some basic rules of decency. You can't ignore them just because the people they are complaining about are officers.
In a guild comprised mainly of adults, guild chat is naturally going to be the domain of some risque language and some words you can only say on HBO. In most guilds, it's no different than if a group of friends were hanging out together and talking in a casual setting. You wouldn't censor yourself in that type of setting. However, most people would agree that some words and topics are best avoided in any situation, particularly if other people nearby are going to hear what you say (which, in guild chat, is pretty much a guarantee). The "N" word (no, not this "N" word) is a prime example, along with any other racist, sexist, or homophobic comments. Such comments are inherently risky in an online environment where you might not know a player's race, gender, or sexual orientation. Furthermore, they're just unnecessary and make you look like a jerk.
I know you feel like you would be the "bad guy" or the "party pooper" in this situation if you bring your concerns -- and those of other members -- to these officers. But you aren't the one who's crossing the line. You are the person who's looking after your members' best interest. The other officers are not.
Now it could be that they aren't aware their behavior is a problem. In this case, making it known that people have concerns could be enough to get them to tone it down, especially if they find out that you share these concerns. Your opinion as an officer should hold a lot of weight. Otherwise, why did they choose you?
As a compromise, you could suggest that they keep the more colorful discussions in the officers channel. That doesn't spare you from exposure to it, but it would protect the members. Also, it would let you read guild chat again and feel like part of the community rather than living in self-imposed exile.
On the other hand, the officers might not be so willing to change their habits. They could assert that the guild is theirs and they have a right to do whatever they want. I hope for your guild's sake that they don't have this attitude. It's an immature and destructive point of view. But if that's their decision and they absolutely won't listen to reason, there isn't a whole lot else you can do -- unless you really want to get tough.
Technically what your officers are doing is against Blizzard's own Terms of Use Agreement (you know, the one you scroll past at lightning speed so you can click the Accept button after every patch). At the risk of sounding like a lawyer, I direct you to Article 5, Section B, Part 1:
[You may not] Transmit or post any content or language which, in the sole and absolute discretion of Blizzard, is deemed to be offensive, including without limitation content or language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable, nor may you use a misspelling or an alternative spelling to circumvent the content and language restrictions listed above[.]
Now, you have every right as a paying customer to report other players for violating the Terms of Use, as does any member of your guild. Whether you really want to take that step is another story, since most certainly the officers will know that someone in the guild reported them. If you've already tried to speak to them about it, they're going to assume that person is you. And they will most likely face a temporary ban as a result. In short, they are going to be very angry and you are going to shoulder the brunt of that anger. It's very possible that they may kick you out of the guild. However, there's a small chance that it may make them realize what jerks they've been about it and maybe, just maybe, they'll have a change of heart. At the very least, they'll be more cautious in the future for risk of getting permanently banned. That would be small comfort to you if you have to find a new guild and start over. So think carefully before you take it this far.
Whatever happens and whatever you decide, make sure to inform the concerned members that you did try to help them. It's important that they know someone among the officers took their side and tried to fix the situation.
I have a feeling that it won't come to anything so serious and that your officers will be willing to hear you out. They aren't going to like what you have to say, but they obviously respect you and consider you a friend. If they find out that they are having such a negative impact on your gaming experience, how can they refuse to listen?
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership), Guilds






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Passit Nov 12th 2007 11:47AM
It wouldn't be unreasonable to talk to the guild leaders about the levels of vugarity... if they are mature adaults then they will understand how the basics of polite conversation works and will prolly aggree that things are a might out of control. Quenching the situation usually only takes identifing the biggest abusers and having a short talk with them...
Surpriseb Nov 12th 2007 11:21AM
As usual, an awesome article!
As this is something I have personally run across (and participated in at times)as a guild leader, there's always the option of creating your own channel. This giving the "friends" who like to chat like "friends" chance to interact with out offending others.
My guess would be it was a guild of friends and it just grew from there. Sometimes people come on board and have fun and before you know it you have a LARGE guild. So learning how to manage such a guild can be truly difficult.
Facing the GM of a guild can difficult. You run the chance of becoming the "drama" and trying to destroy the guild. Take all available options to him/her and hope for the best!
Good Luck!
Duncan Nov 12th 2007 11:23AM
There is no room any language like that in any guild chat. My advice is warning then boot if it happens agian. Or if to much of that thing is going on. Maybe you should look for a more mature guild. being an "adult" or being here to "unwind" doesn't give ANYONE the right to use that kind of language. and I'm not talking the F bomb or the like. But anything racial or religously negitive. It's just wrong. And when I say "Mature" this has nothing to do with age. A good guild leader will not alow any of that crap. Just my 2 cents
kunukia Nov 12th 2007 11:28AM
Good post. I have always belonged to rather relaxed guilds, but every one of them has a few younger kids in the guild, mostly children of members, and we accordingly keep it pretty clean. A bit of innuendo now and then, nothing more. Really, who doesn't get tired of potty-mouth all the time?
Zumwalah Nov 12th 2007 11:34AM
My guild gets very very vulgar some times, everyone rags on everyone else, we do try to take it easy on new members so as not to scare them off. Many of these people are officers them selves, tho we have a few unspoken rules, If its personal, make sure its obviously a joke, stick to the ongoing jokes, explain the hurtful jokes to new members so they get it, rather then get hurt by it. and namely We tell people in our recruitment notices that %90 of what is said in guild chat is complete bull and dont take it to heart, but u must be able to laugh at jokes, possibly aimed at urself. how ever, officer chat is a different story, this has much tighter restrictions. i am canadian, in a predominantly american guild, and there are always alot of canada jokes floating around out there, so rather then taking offense to these jokes, i contribute to them! its fun making fun of your self.
my advice is avoid people who take things they read on the internet personally, i mean fuck its the internet! just a different medium..
i point to now to Peter Gabriels Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
Dave Nov 12th 2007 11:35AM
If you wanna have a guild with your buddies, here's the most important tip you can ever have.
DO NOT RECRUIT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS.
Let it sink in. Take a breath.
Read it again.
Yes, that means you can't act like the big Black Temple raiding guild on the edge of progression and recruit people you don't know because you need to fill up members and progress and all that. That's not the kind of guild you want if you're going to have a buddy guild where your friends are the ones in charge and everyone else is just there to help you out. Problems manifest in all sorts of ways (usually loot, but in this case in the aspect of chat issues which aren't the REAL issues at all) and if you're going to basically defend your buddies on everything, that creates an imbalance in the whole system that will fundamentally break your guild.
Now, if you're ready and willing to turn your buddy guild into a real guild, you've gotta be willing to show everyone that they're equally respected. It's up to you how to figure out how to do that, but it doesn't start with "my buddies are the officers and everyone else is just here for the ride" behavior.
That's really what the whole problem is usually about. Yes, they're complaining about the chat, but that's not what they're really upset about. Chat can get overlooked usually rather easily. What can't, is being a sidenote in a buddy guild where no matter how good you are, how much you're devoted to the guild or anything like that, you know that ultimately you're never going to be more than just that guy, and the buddy of the GM is going to be able to do whatever he wants, take whatever loot he wants and the GM's gonna just say "lol, that's Bob" rather than treating him like a normal player.
Running a guild is for the most part just like running a real place of business. After a while you start to figure out things for what they are, rather than what people try to present to you. And as anyone knows, every single person hates the guy who's only there because he's friends with someone else at the job.
Zumwalah Nov 12th 2007 11:37AM
Edit, damn i wish i could edit my posts.... Bad forums FTL
John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory
we3bus Nov 12th 2007 11:43AM
I've seen a lot of Penny Arcade comics posted as responses and commentary before, but I think this is the first time I've seen John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory used *in defense* of being a jackass online.
FireStar Nov 12th 2007 11:46AM
Image link goes to http://www.wowinsidering.com/worldofwarcraft.com
dpoyesac Nov 12th 2007 11:49AM
"There was one instance a long, long time ago where a black member of the guild gquit because of a few guys BS'ing on gchat and using the 'N' word."
I'm not black, but if someone were to use the n-word in gchat, I would gquit immediately. In fact, I have done so in similar situations. IF the guld leader took (had taken...) the appropriate response (gkick the offending member) I would (would have...) come back.
USING the n-word (or something similarly offensive) is bad enough, but having a guild that won't call out & gkick the neanderthal who uses the word is just a sign that the guild itself is rotten.
Easterling Nov 12th 2007 11:51AM
I got told off by my GM for saying 'WTF' in G chat.. nd thats only an acronym!
Epiny Nov 12th 2007 11:53AM
While I haven't ran into this problem in WoW, I did exprience this in EQ. I was in a Hard Core Raiding guild. We raided every day for 6+ hours with over 100 active members. Once you are at that level, with that many people, you are really only friends with a hand full of them. Turn guild chat off, and use private channels or a private vent.
I'm not in a guild comprised 90% of real life friends. When someone new joins we explain that we are friends beyond WoW and if you don't like how we do things GTFO.
Naix Nov 12th 2007 11:57AM
Reported.
Xip Nov 12th 2007 12:08PM
Fucking whinos.
So what if we swear? So what if we call someone a nigger, a jew or a spic after they've ganked us for the nth time? I propose that it's you as needs to grow up, not us.
Why? Because we're fine with meaningless colourful language. We're not promoting white supremacy, eugenics or fascism. You are. By making racist slang into taboo language you're implying there's something wrong. What's wrong is one human being acting like a child to another human being because he/she is the new four-eyes or freckle-face! It's childish behaviour and if you don't treat it as such you're adding to the gap between our cultures.
As for censoring us - that's good ol' fascism right there. I know WoW isn't a 'free land' and guilds are anything but democratic most of the time but that doesn't stop what you're doing from being inhumane.
So yeah - grow up and drop the PC attitude, which isn't helping anyone.
bennet Nov 12th 2007 12:20PM
@14's post is one of the best reasons for WoWInsider to consider moderating comments that I've seen in a while.
Dalrint Nov 12th 2007 12:24PM
Uh. They make racist language into something taboo because of the inherent meaning of the words. Words aren't empty, they aren't 'meaningless colorful language'.
If you use those words, then say 'Oh, I'm not serious', it doesn't matter. It still hurts the people who hear it. That black guy quit because it hurt him, as an example. And if you say 'Oh, we don't mean it that way', then USE A DIFFERENT WORD.
It's not like our language has a deficit of words. There are hundreds of perfectly legitimate words that can be used instead of racial slurs. Hell, even if you Have to use foul language, then curse! A simple swear has far less of the emotional weight and impact than a slur.
I grew up around black people (I am not, myself) but I can tell you that it hurts them when they hear words like that. You can see it in their eyes.
Then again, judging by your defense of racial slurs, you're probably part of a far larger problem than 'internet chat bigotry'.
dpoyesac Nov 12th 2007 12:28PM
Heres the deal: real life doesn't stop when you log into WoW. But due to the virtual, electronic nature of our favorite alternate reality, many of the traditional real-life consequences are missing.
There are certain words that, in real life, would get you a smack in the mouth if you were to say them in a bar, fired if you were to say them at work, and out on the street and off my Facebook friends list if you said them to me as a joke.
But you use them in WoW? The best we can do is /gkick or /ignore. Big disparity in consequences there.
So, Xip, you want some meaningless, colorful words to use for gankers or ninjas? We have those words. Asshat, for example. Noob for another.
You insist on using racially or ethnically charged insults for -- golly! -- the horrible sin of -- gosh! -- ganking? You might want to step away from the game and get some perspective, Xip. Real sins, real horrors and real evil are perpetrated because of racism and hatred. By insisting you get to use the same word for gankers that, you know, was used by those who LYNCHED and MURDERED people becasue of race...
...makes me think you don't really understand the words "meaningless" or "colorful".
rick Nov 12th 2007 12:28PM
Xip - You're an imbecile. Please don't breed as it will only drag humanity down a bit. And I'd gkick your butt so fast it would make your empty head spin.
Duncan Nov 12th 2007 12:28PM
well was going to reply to #14 but before I could. Dalrint #16 did it for me. Couldn't have said it better.
Duncan Nov 12th 2007 12:30PM
And dpoyesac says it even better /bow