Ye olde loot drama
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 12th 2007 at 2:30PM
Andrek posted an interesting thought on the forums: remember loot drama? Sure, there's still loot drama floating around-- as long as there is more players than loot at each boss drop, there will always be loot drama. And maybe this is just nostalgia rearing its ugly head, but it seems like Andrek is right-- Molten Core was home to far more loot drama (Rogue weapon! No, Warrior weapon! No, Hunter weap!) than Outland's raids have been.There's a few reasons for this. As players note later in the thread, Blizzard is much, much better at itemization now than they were back when we were raiding Ragnaros. And we're all in 10 and 25 man groups rather than 40 man-- fewer people means fewer arguments about who gets what. Not to mention that there's so much more loot now (and so many more ways to get it), that even if you lose that roll to a Hunter, you still get Heroic badges to turn in, or you've still got your Arena rating to count on.
It seems like loot actually means a little less now than it used to, and that's a great change. It's too bad that the old "hunter weapon" joke might actually be becoming obsolete, but less loot drama means more fun, and no guildleader will argue with that one.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Dave Nov 12th 2007 3:19PM
Ultimately, I think the biggest reason is that significantly less people raid the 25-man (and thus overlapping classes) instances than the 10-mans, and even then it's not a huge percentage of the players who even raid 10-mans.
So, less people raiding means easier access to the weapons that do drop and in a 10-man raid you usually aren't bringing more than 2 people who would conflict on the same piece of gear anyway and a 2-person argument can usually be worked out rather easily. (unless it's a hunter who thinks everything that he can equip should go to him, but hunters these days are glad to just go... so they've learned to shut up and take the loot that really helps and pass on the stuff that only sorta helps.).
probably not the best way to resolve loot drama, but I think that arenas helped to kill raids, and crappy raids (honestly, the 25-man stuff stinks) helped even more to push people away from hardcore raiding. So, less drama which is great.
Jeff Morgan Nov 12th 2007 3:35PM
I wish I knew what you meant when you said "loot actually means a little less now than it used to." Is it less important to people? I don't think so. Is there less status associated with loot? Perhaps. Regardless of your meaning, I can't say I think it's a great change.
Loot is, like virtually anything else in the game, a standard for comparison and a status symbol. Unfortunately as loot gets easier to come by, player attitudes become more dichotomous. Kara geared players are considered noobs because virtually anyone can throw together a moderately geared 10-man pug and clear a large portion of that raid. 25-man gear is respectable, but only if it comes from SSC/TK and beyond. Tier 4 is crap, and so on. The availability of these status symbols means the game is turning more and more into a zerg, trying to get to the top of the loot tables as fast as you can, and then moving on.
The end-game raids rely less on the player and more on the body count. On my own server, I can think of very few guilds that have been around for more than a year, and I think it's a result of easy purples.
Obviously this comment isn't for those who play the game just to get into the highest quality gear possible. For players who choose to enjoy the content AND enjoy a community, the quick epic situation is their bane. Exceptions to every rule, yes, but in my experience the problem is much more widespread than just a server or two.
David Whyld Nov 12th 2007 4:22PM
Jeff Morgan: "I wish I knew what you meant when you said "loot actually means a little less now than it used to." Is it less important to people? I don't think so. Is there less status associated with loot? Perhaps. Regardless of your meaning, I can't say I think it's a great change."
I took it to mean that in a 40 man raid, there are more people likely to be wanting that nice piece of loot you're after than in a 25 or 10 man raid. If you're a warrior and the uber tanking armour drops in a 40 man raid, you've probably got 5-6 other people who need it as well. In a 25 man raid, you'll have 3-4. In 10 man, there's probably only you and one other person. So the smaller the raid, the more chance you'll get what you want and the less chance of "loot drama", i.e. people having a fit because they didn't get what they wanted.
hpavc Nov 12th 2007 4:49PM
The Naxx forward rep system for tier items helped a lot. It really is a huge boost versus the BWL (yet another Dragon Stalker de) Not entirely happy with the class combinations on some of the items though.
Mike Schramm Nov 12th 2007 5:50PM
Jeff, yes, I pretty much meant that individual loot is much less important-- even if you can't get that one caster staff you really want, there's probably more to choose from. Before BC, every class pretty much had the one weapon they were aiming for, and now there's quite a few to pick from for every class and spec.
Jeff Morgan Nov 12th 2007 8:47PM
Ah, thanks for the clarification, and now I think we're in agreement. I see what you did there! Kudos on a thought-provoking post. I'll have to do some more thinking on just what about the current raiding situation makes guild hopping so prominent. Maybe WoW players are just a fickle breed (though I highly doubt that's the answer).
Didit Nov 12th 2007 11:51PM
"Kara geared players are considered noobs because virtually anyone can throw together a moderately geared 10-man pug and clear a large portion of that raid."
Totally false statement. Kara is still a tough zone for pugs.
Jeff Morgan Nov 13th 2007 12:30AM
"Kara geared players are considered noobs because virtually anyone can throw together a moderately geared 10-man pug and clear a large portion of that raid."
Totally true statement on my server. PUGs form several times a week and clear "a large portion" of the instance, often as far as or beyond chess. The groups that don't clear typically leave Netherspite, Prince, and Nightbane untouched.
Chrissie Nov 13th 2007 8:00AM
Hmm, interesting. I only started playing after the release of TBC so I have never been in a 40-man-raid, but this was food for thought nonetheless.
Looking at the old tier sets and loots, I would very much agree itemisation has become much better. Whether it alleviates loot drama is still situational. For 10 mans, I agree. For 25 mans, we bring along 8 healers...if a healing mace drops, it'll be 8 people wanting it, which is several more than your "5-6" example for 40-mans.
For the tier tokens, I wouldn't be surprised if many druids felt they got the short end of the stick being grouped with warrior and priest, as that runs a high risk of losing the first token to the "main tank" clause and the second one to the "main healer" one. ;)
Regarding Karazhan...I have to agree with both the above. I don't think it's an easy instance, and I would dread to go there with a full PUG (being pugged by a guild that has a slot or two empty is a different story). My guild is 4/6 SSC (fifth at 10%) and 1/4 TK (yeah yeah Lootreaver, bite me), but does Kara farming runs on weekends- and we've been wiping in there a lot as the well-geared people, especially tanks, can't be arsed to show up anymore. Rather embarrassing, really. But it's how it is, we may be a guild that raids tier 5, but with our B team left to its own devices, we struggle with Karazhan. (With a pugged main tank, we even managed to wipe twice on a single fleshbeast. Awesome, especially when you have a tier 5 repair bill). But I digress, my point is, Kara is far from an easy instance (my old guild, a fairly casual one, has been in there roughly 3 times a week for half a year and is up to Curator)...
yet at the same time, Kara geared people do get called noobs.
Mainly because the season two arena gear emulates tier 5, so anyone who doesn't have the first clue about PvE can go get it and then look down on tier 4 geared players.
Though of course everything is relative, if you show up in a PUG in full Kara epics and everyone else is wearing dungeon blues, they will still fawn and gape at you, whereas to the BT-geared raiders on your server you'll be a scrub. And who cares what PvPers think.