Guild divas: There can only be one
by Elizabeth Wachowski 
Nov 14th 2007 at 12:34PM
Yes, we're stepping once again into the steaming hot gumbo of WoW gender relations -- this time with the delightfully spicy flavor of the Guild Relations forum.
Altaan is a female player and the GM of a casual raiding guild with about 80 players. She describes herself as a laid-back leader who lets the raid leaders take over the instances while maintaining a fun environment for her guild members. However, she's recently had problems with a few female members, and is wondering whether to kick them out or let them stay.
"They undercut my authority in subtle, almost underhanded ways that I'm having a hard time pinpointing to my male officers, who love the fact that there are women in the guild ... especially ones who will flirt with them," Altaan writes. "One of these women recently asked the men to attempt to procure my picture, purportedly because she is concerned with being the "hottest girl in the guild." The other has announced several times that the Raid Leaders "belong" to her and she is only allowing me to "borrow" them. Both women routinely use guild chat and Ventrilo to stake claims on the male players ("this is my paladin"; "my druid"; etc.)"
I've seen this phenomenon a few times in my WoW history, and it's recently been popularized on AFK Gamer. A small minority of female WoW players do not play well with others. They generally tend to mention their gender at any opportunity and flirt casually with anyone in a position of power. The label of girl gamer is important to them, as it makes them seem like a rare breed in a male-dominated virtual world -- the "guild diva." When another female comes along -- especially one who's an officer or guild leader and not flirty -- they feel that their territory is being threatened and lash out.
Altaan understands this, but is unsure of how to proceed. If she keeps the players, they will continue being nuisances and hindering her raids by flirting with the raid leaders and taking spots from better players. If she kicks them, she may be seen as catty herself, and she may lose one of her raid leaders. There's a debate on the forum, but most people seem to think that she should kick them for challenging her authority and being drama queens.
What do you think Altaan should do? Female officers and GMs, have you had any problems with divas in your guild? Is this about gender at all, or merely a more subtle display of power struggles?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Guilds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Epiny Nov 14th 2007 12:42PM
We had this happen often back when I raided in EQ. Those were the days before we truly understood people's personas in a game.
Women have the distinct ability of single handily destroying a guild. Pandora is pretty much the right analogy. A large portion of men that play MMO's are not use to being the focus of women's attention. Combine with that, what my friend calls the addition of 5, that a girl get bonus(5 points in hotness) for simply logging onto an MMO or walking into a comic store.
Your best bet is to set guide lines with the officers. Explain to them that they are indeed in a postion of power and must treat each player the same, regardless of gender.
cds Nov 14th 2007 12:44PM
I would not kick them right away.
I would demote them to the lowest ranking in the guild and just not invite them to any raids for 2 weeks and let everyone know they are being punished and why.
If they cant be adult they will just /gquit so good riddance and if they cant take the punishment quietly then just kick them.
amorphous86 Nov 14th 2007 12:46PM
G kick them, its as simple as that. I'm on a casual raid guild on Anetheron and everyone even the girls there treat our guild leader with great respect. I have never seen any of them flirting to gain favor. That is dirty, underhanded, and dispicable.G kick them.
MechChef Nov 14th 2007 12:49PM
Catch 22. Chances are, kicking her will cause a portion of the member base to follow her. Trust me, I've seen it happen. The men who kiss her ass, and buy her things, and power-level her toon will follow her wherever she goes, because they are fat and lonely, and hope to one day have sex with her.
Todd Nov 14th 2007 12:57PM
I agree with #3
G kick there asses, only reason girls do that and I say girls because they are not mature enough to be called women ...
Is because they know that they can get what they want out of the guy, I had a friend who fell for this and lv'ed a girl friend of his from the teens all the way to 70 gave her gold, items, armor then poof she vanished, bout 3 months later he ran into 2 of his friends in game from a diff guild who told pretty much the same story on how she used them ...
girls can be mean, sneaky, and down right heartless and cruel ...
Gkick there asses
befuddle Nov 14th 2007 1:00PM
I agree with cds. I’m female and used to be an endgame GM before BC. We always had issues with girl players doing this exact thing and every time we got a new one some of the girl guild members would lash out on them to basically try and put them in their place. We had to demote a few for just this type of thing.
I for one don’t have any issues with chick players as long as they can play and are not obnoxious & too flirty. A lot think they can get away with being shitty players just by batting their eyes and doing a few emote hugs & kisses. There are a lot of really good female players out there and they don’t have to use their sex to get players to group with them or help them with things.
Todd Nov 14th 2007 1:00PM
Ya they have to hunt all those who got the T6 and make them naked and put them in the middle of undercity, that'll teach um :P
Theserene Nov 14th 2007 1:01PM
Same as I would do to any officer of the guild abusing their power: Warn them to cut it out and then demote them.
I don't make differences based on whether it's a male or female. And if people complain about it, then they are not thinking with their brains and the last time I heard, it's not people's reproductive systems that ensure a good raid.
kellzea Nov 14th 2007 1:03PM
@4 thats a bit harsh mate. we are all fat and lonely in our own heads. we needent have others point fingers and laugh.
to be honest if they cause a problem with the guild leader then they should go. i would sugest talking it over but i have the feeling that would not go well.
you cant blame people for flirting however. we all use our own best qualities to gain in life or wow.
i am a fairly inteligent bloke who uses kindness and reason to advance, if i was a "hot chick" your dam right i would use my looks and or sexuality to advance. its what humans do. im not great looking but i dont begrudge those that are there abilities. afterall, i am much smarter on average than they, so they need a little leg up =P
having said that, there is a right and a wrong way to go about it. if they are constantly using it to teh detrement of teh raid and or guild, then they should go, no bones. most of teh time this stuff is harmless but when it goes to far. cut it out
Todd Nov 14th 2007 1:04PM
my last comment posted in the wrong blog srry my bad :P
FireStar Nov 14th 2007 1:12PM
kick them. As long as Altaan shows through her actions that she's a good person and a good leader then the downsides of kicking them will not matter.
Smurk Nov 14th 2007 1:14PM
SMURK LUV DRAMA. I am definitely reading all the links in that post after submitting this.
I say kick them now. This will cause problems and some people might leave the guild... but this situation is already causing you problems and potentially weakening the guild. I recommend that you actively decide which problem you want to take on (i.e. the one that means these problem players aren't wearing your tabard anymore). Explain why you kicked them to everyone else in the guild. Expect some /gquits.
This is one of many in-game situations where it's just not worth the headaches. I know it's easy for me to say, having never been a GM, but there it is.
zerorez Nov 14th 2007 1:16PM
Be happy your guild isn't already destroyed, it will be eventually, cast out the poison before the apple rots.
As to how?
Simply say they kept playing mind games and causing you to feel uncomfortable. If there is anything gamer guys would understand...it's mind games. Chances are people have done it to them.
cemily82 Nov 14th 2007 1:21PM
As a female gamer, I have to say I hate this behaviour. We have a female GM, and she is outstanding, and I would fully support punishing anyone, male or female who choose to undermine her authority. Women are indoctrinated into an ideal wherein negative behaviour and feelings are not supposed to be discussed openly, or admitted to publicly. Unfortunately as a result, women as a group have learned and teach one another to be very underhanded and malicious. This is simply intolerable. I would punish them first, and if the behaviour does not improve, kick them out. Give them a chance to reform, also the opportunity to discuss any underlying issues that might be causing this behaviour, and then see how it goes.
Smurk Nov 14th 2007 1:30PM
btw, Armory search shows only one 70 named Altaan, from Impure Intentions on Tanaris. But they only have 16 70s, so who knows if that's the right one.
As a PS to my earlier post, keep in mind that if you've been a good/responsible GM, you can expect most of your players to stick with you. Genuinely good people/players are much rarer than pantsless elf wenches, and more valuable.
eROKv Nov 14th 2007 1:34PM
two words: JELLO WRESTING
should solve all the issues
Sylythn Nov 14th 2007 1:39PM
GM's can't afford to be laid back leaders...I'm standing in for my GM currently, and although I generally let things run themselves, when I notice something like this - essentially a trend that will lead to more trouble down the road - I make sure I take a firm stand against it. Have I made friends doing that? No, but I haven't lost more than a couple people because of it either. "Takes no shit" got put in my Officer notes, and for a long time, I left it there cause it's true.
Hollywood Ron Nov 14th 2007 1:41PM
@4. Totally right. They'll leave, and their pet healers or whatever will leave with them. Such is life.
MIrina Nov 14th 2007 1:41PM
I'm the GM, and I have at least 2 other girls in the guild. No issues at all amongst us! The other officers/raid leaders are all males, and the guild is weighted much more heavily in the favor of the guys. That being said, we all are social--we all flirt with each other, joke around, and just have fun on vent and in game.
If another female joined who was catty and trying to start trouble, I'm sure that the officers (we do a majority vote) would want to remove said female. And considering that one of the male officers is the PR person for the guild, the message would come from him, not me. We like to have fun while we raid, so we will cut up, act crazy, etc (sometimes our vent can scare people!)--but no one in the guild has use for a catty person (male OR female).
ablinkin Nov 14th 2007 1:44PM
Friend and I called this OPS (online princess syndrome). It seems some women that play mmo's abuse the fact that some guys that play mmo's get to talk to many females. They then use this to their advantage to get the things they need/want. In my guild there were several incompetents that were given raid spots and even made officers based purely on the fact that they had breasts and talked to the males.
I didn't really understand this fact because many of the men had breasts, too.
Then again, maybe I shouldn't have commented, my wife still plays WoW herself.