Ask WoW Insider: Who pulls?
by Barb Dybwad 
Nov 16th 2007 at 8:35PM
Welcome everyone to Ask WoW Insider, where your questions get answers every week. Last week we looked at whether there are really people without alts, and this week we turn our attention to group strategy. David wants to settle the matter about who should be doing the pulling in groups: Now, this may just be me, or does it seem strange when people talk about hunter or mage pulls? I understand that in certain cases there is a need to have a hunter pull, especially with Misdirect, but when it comes down to it, any time I run something I never get to pull (Hunter here). Not that it's much of a complaint, more of a curiousity. For the most part Warriors will have a ranged weapon, Bears will use Faerie Fire, and Pallies will go with Avenging Shield. I just usually find it more complicated to pull with a hunter and then have the tank grab the aggro, when they all have ranged capabilities for pulls. I might also have been spoiled with all my tanks, as it has been months since I've PuGed a tank and we never seem to use CC in any instances anyways. Thought this may be a viable question, or maybe I'm the only Hunter out there that has been spoiled like this?What say you folks -- should hunters or any one class be doing the pulling in instances or in groups? Are there classes that should never pull? Should warlocks have "Wait for sunders!" mandatorily tattooed on their virtual eyelids? Who should pull -- let's hear it!
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Filed under: Instances, Quests, Ask WoW Insider
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Kuroyume Nov 16th 2007 8:57PM
it depends... if i can burn a Taunt (53 warrior here) i let the hunter or mage pull with the strongest thing they can, and taunt... if i feel i might need the taunt early in the fight, i pull...
Also, i try to mark most of the time, but if someone knows the encounters better, i let them mark...
macee Nov 16th 2007 9:01PM
There are a couple of ways to pull.
You can pull with a hunter and use a low threat attack(scorpid sting) and let the tank grab it via auto attack. And then start building threat.
Pull with high damage/threat abilities. And make the tank taunt the mob off. This will give the tank a big amount of initial threat to work with if the hunter uses Feign death after that.
A tank can pull the mobs so everything is focused on him/her and then the other people can peel off mobs to cc. This works well with multiple mobs. And this much easier on the hunter that needs to trap. This way you can trap a mob to the side of the group instead of in front of the group.
Of course there is misdirection... cast it and use some high threat abilities.
Personally as a hunter i never understood the idea of a magepull. They die even faster then a hunter and they can CC when they want to.
Personally for a simple 5man instance the tank is the best person to pull. If your going towards raids then the hunter is the best class for the job.
matrix_dragon Nov 16th 2007 9:02PM
Protection Paladins don't get to pull very often in some instance because Avenging Shield can break CC.
So when I tank as prot I usually ask my Rogue / Hunter Friend to put frist then I go Avenging Shield.
Boonie Nov 16th 2007 9:03PM
Early on in my current guild we were running ZF... the guild leaders wife was pulling with the sheep pull method... I'd say... NOT using that method.
Rukland Nov 16th 2007 9:04PM
Hehe I can remember the days of being a Rogue and pulling Shazarah in MC :)
Ashtear Nov 16th 2007 9:08PM
http://www.nuklearpower.com/hunter.php
'nuff said.
Acceptable Risk Nov 16th 2007 9:09PM
As a bear, I rather prefer to control the pull myself. If there's a hunter there who's willing to Misdirect, I tend to let them do the pull. It's hard to argue with a big blast of upfront aggro.
I don't letting a caster pull with a sheep or a shackle of whathaveyou if I trust the caster to be able to keep an eye on it and reobtain the control on their own without a lot of babysitting.
Dave Nov 16th 2007 9:09PM
I know I'm in the minority, because most people who play a tank want to be THE MAN and be in charge of the whole party and tell everyone what to do, who's doing what wrong and explain to everyone why they're not a crap tank, etc etc...
But AS a tank, and as a mage and any other class with CC abilities, I always prefer the CC to fly first. I want the CC'ed mob to stay far away from the rest of the party until it's ready to be dealt with, and few mages can realistically sheep it away from the party. Same goes for shackles, mind control, and anything but a sap really. Far too many people are sloppy with their AOE'able spells and abilities, and sheeps get broken too easily by tab targeting as well. If the sheep is 5 yards away from the rest of the mobs, it's much less likely to get broken accidentally. (you rarely see anyone un-sap a mob accidentally for this reason).
If your tank can't grab aggro with their AOE ability on multiple mobs as they come charging towards the CC'er, you haven't figured out how to play your class very well. If it's a 2-mob pull and you can't grab that 2nd mob, then you need to re-learn the fundamental concepts of threat generation before attempting to tank something again. Without using your taunt. Think of it as a puzzle you have to unlock before you master tanking. You can do it, it's not too difficult, but it's not necessarily instantly obvious to everyone.
Nyx Nov 16th 2007 9:35PM
Rank 1 Arcane Shot, pull it and weep.
But TBH, I prefer not to pull, as it's easier for me to drag a mob from a group and trap than it is for me to drag all the mobs to the tank, wait for him to get them, and then pull mine off [so I don't risk my trap hitting the wrong mark].
I can run either way, it's just a matter of laziness.
And a tank who doesn't like Misdirection doesn't know what it can do. I always use it on boss fights, whether or not it's asked for... it lets me frontload without having to worry too hard about stealing aggro.
Memzer Nov 16th 2007 9:52PM
@2. I think the idea of the mage pull was pretty much along the lines of what you discussed for the hunter pull really.
1. Mage pulls with a high-threat generating ability [eg. pyroblast].
2. Warrior taunts the mob and his threat is set to that of the mages.
3. Mage ice blocks and watches the warrior do his thing while he waits out the 10% rule.
These days however there is almost no need [sigh, gimmicky encounters] at all for a mage to ever pull as they want to be minimising their generated threat to allow more room for DPS.
In my opinion for all five man content the person pulling should be the tank. For raid content it's a little more of a grey area, however generally only the tank or a smart hunter should pull.
Fraufrau Nov 16th 2007 10:02PM
As an old hunter I would like to point out that pre-TBC we always pulled, ironically now we have misdirect we rarely pull. I am also referring not to just 5mans but raids too.
I used to be the only person to pull mobs in MC and BWL back when skills such as kiting and timed/balanced feign deaths were the hallmark of a skilled hunter. Nowadays it is just too easy for a tank to pull and to regain the attention of mobs.
However, if you are required to pull use Rank 1 Arcane Shot or Misdirect (+high threat shots - Multishot/aimed shot/steady shot/full rank arcane shot etc). Either make a macro to stop attacking after ur pull shot or hit ESC as soon as you hit your pull. Always be ready to Feign Death too.
xzor Nov 16th 2007 10:12PM
hunters like to pull because it makes them feel needed in groups and raids. the truth is, they arn't.
Ted Morrill-McClure Nov 16th 2007 10:49PM
I love comments like 8 :) What tank AOE aggro grabber are you talking about? Don't just brag about how smart you are "..you need to re-learn the fundamental concepts of threat generation before attempting to tank something again. " Tell us what you mean.
I play a feral Druid and the only 'cold start' (no rage built up because combat hasn't started yet) aggro abilities I have are fairy fire and charge... only good for one creature. Given rage I can swipe, but what other multi-target attacks are available? Do warriors have AOE / multi-target attacks that don't require rage?
A Man In Black Nov 16th 2007 10:56PM
As the tank, I prefer to pull.
Why don't I let the hunter pull? Because, most of the time, I'm PUGging. It's my responsibility to manage the pull no matter who does it, so I'd rather take the responsibility to do it, because it was my fault whether I mess it up or the person I asked to pull messed it up. I'm much happier when I have a hunter I can trust to pull, but I've yet to PUG one.
Why don't I like mage CC pulls? Because mages should be wanding then CCing to get the sheep out of the way of my thunderclap or consecrate or (I guess) swipe or Avenging Shield. If the mage can't figure out how to do this, I'll call for a sheep pull and deal, but it sucks.
A Man In Black Nov 16th 2007 10:57PM
@13 With Improved Thunderclap, I can Bloodrage and TC to grab a group from a cold start.
Milktub Nov 16th 2007 11:01PM
"Do warriors have AOE / multi-target attacks that don't require rage?"
No, but the rage required for a Demo shout can be taken care of by popping bloodrage (name?) as the mobs are rushing forward. That should get a few whaling on the warrior to build up rage for a Thunderclap, and then into the rotation from there.
When I play warrior, I prefer to pull. Too many things can go wrong if I don't. What if I get feared/rooted/stunned before I grab the mob running to the mage? Then the healer tosses a heal on the mage and everything rushes the healer, and ... well, it all goes downhill from there.
Oblitherax Nov 16th 2007 11:14PM
@12 : You're an idiot. By that standard Warlocks aren't needed either. And forget shamans. Oh, and who cares about rogues too.
Seriously. There are ALOT of classes a raid can do without. Hell, my guild has been running effectively without any main rogues for a while. But, when a rogue is there they do provide certain benefits, just as hunters do.
Hunters can be extremely effective with silencing shot and misdirect. On Nightbane, for example, misdirect can make the transition between when the skeleton come down and nightband lands again extremely easy by repositioning agro quickly on the tank. Also assist in situations when the mob is non tauntable so that the rest of the team can open up dps quickly. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Garuk Nov 16th 2007 11:47PM
Was in a PUG last night, the pally tank insisted on pulling with Avenger's Shield (which splashes damage to the two adjacent mobs) ... and then kept wondering why the mob marked for trapping didn't peel off to be dutifully frozen. Crazy thing was we had two hunters in the group - one could have misdirected pull to the pally, and the other pulls the mob to be trapped.
Kats Nov 16th 2007 11:54PM
As a druid tank, I usually like to pull myself as I can time it how I want to and don't have to peel the mob off someone else. I do like a hunter misdirect when available and there are some tricky pulls where a hunter is nice.
@8 - what AOE ability is that I supposedly have to grab multi-mobs who have aggroed on someone else? Yes I can use challenging roar once every 10 min (if I have the rage) but I save that for emergencies not routine pulling. I have swipe but that really works better to keep the groups attention on you rather than grabbing aggro from someone else....
My biggest gripe is in pugs when people suggest that there is only one way to do pulls. I remember the guy who told me that everyone knows the mage always pulls... Or the hunter who isn't on pulling and refused to use misdirect because it has a cooldown....
babamucha Nov 17th 2007 1:23AM
Ban all dps meters would help alot.
Feel the force "dude"
Save CPU, Save Response time.
dps meters pushing all those casters on hitting the top.
They are playing for the meters, not for the group.
FEEL THE FORCE
Anyone can be the puller, feel the force dude.