PvP spending questions: Value vs. Cost vs. Time
by David Bowers 
Nov 27th 2007 at 11:10AM
The particular character in question is my draenei hunter that I just finished leveling about a month and a half ago. I'm having trouble finding good upgrades in any remaining quests, normal instances, or even heroics, but sometimes I still feel quite behind a lot of the other players I see in the battlegrounds and arenas. I'll probably start going to Karazhan with this character soon, but ideally I would love to be able to gear up with PvP and get into my guild's Zul'Aman raids early. I'd like to start being more competitive in Arenas as well -- sooner rather than later. At the current rate I'm going, it'll take me another two months before I have enough Arena points to spend on a Merciless Gladiator's Crossbow of the Phoenix (from Season 2). If I bought the Gladiator's Heavy Crossbow (from Season 1) with Honor today, though, would that help put me on a more even footing with other players sooner? Perhaps I would compete more effectively and gear up in other ways much faster? Or is it really worth the wait for the better weapon? (In case you're wondering, the Season 3 Crossbow requires a 1850 personal rating, so it's something I can't get without serious gear improvements.)
What sort of PvP spending quandary are you in? If you're in a situation like mine, feel free to ask your question below, and see if our readers have an reply for you. Hopefully our new commenting features will help facilitate some practical suggestions.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Callandra Nov 27th 2007 11:19AM
Think of it this way...say in your current gear you do 500dps in an arena setting (plus offering some control w/pet/traps/surv. if spec'd). In this same gear you have 8000 life and zero resilience.
If you splurge to upgrade all gear, excluding weapon, you get up to 550dps but have 10k life and 200 resilience.
If you instead bought the weapon and a couple pieces of armor you'd hit 600dps but have 8500 life and 100 resilience.
These numbers may be dramaticized, but will the increase in survivability outweigh the DPS increase? Or will the DPS increase trump surving for a few more seconds?
I faced this same conundrum, and decided to start out with getting 2 pieces of S1 armor (for the +35 resi bonus) followed by the 3 piece vindicator, 2 rings, 1 pendant etc.
At some point I'm going to need a weapon, but I hope that Valanos can keep me satisfied (or if I get a 75dps rep reward).
Tuke Nov 27th 2007 11:30AM
I am in the same situation. If you want to know exactly what dps increase you get for each upgrade, just use Cheeky's spreadsheet to figure it out.
I have 75k honor saved and will be starting with S1 xbow (upgrading from valanos), S3 belt, s3 ring and s1 shoulders. That will use up the honor and its back to the bg grind for the rest.
Krishan Nov 27th 2007 11:21AM
That's sort of the same with me, I am aiming to get the Gladiator's Staff tomorrow, but I can either get the honour staff and 2 peices of Arena gear, or wait another week and get the S3 Weapon (1850 rating won't be too hard to get for me).
I think I'll get the Gladiator's staff, get my new peices of gear (thus making me even better gearwise) and then when I have all the gear I need, then aim for the season 3 weapon.
Snorri Nov 27th 2007 11:26AM
Since you're a hunter you should know better than to want a 3.10 speed weapon. (assuming you are BM spec - which you should be) So you should clearly spend 1000 arena points on the new waraxe (hunters only - no rating required) and then spend your remaining honor points on Vindicator's boots/belt/bracers as needed. The new Triumph ring is very good as well.
Dipstick Nov 27th 2007 11:26AM
The only spending quandary I have is whether or not I think my team mates will mind me buying S3 retribution gear (I have all S2 healing gear). Not that I'd really care if they were opposed to it since we're just in it for points each week @ 1800-2000 rating (although we want to get 2k for the shoulders).
mcclary Nov 27th 2007 11:26AM
The way I look at it is: what slot will bring the biggest upgrade? Replace the old quest rewards first.
I would also recommend using an equivalent point system to help figure this out. I'm sure one is out there for hunters that normalizes everything to AP, or RAP. (I don't play hunter, forgive my ignorance). Then you can use this and the cost of the item to see what will be the best deal for your limited funds.
Personally I am going with 3 pieces of s1 armor and the s1 wand. This will replace all crafted/quest blues. I will have enough arena points for the s2 weapon in a couple weeks.
Epiny Nov 27th 2007 11:40AM
I was in a similiar situation when deciding on my S3 starting items. I have a priest though so a weapon isn't top priority for me.
I was looking at replacing my High Warlord Shoulder/Gloves with S1 or buying S3 ring, belt, and neck. It turns out that if you pop everthing into a spread sheet you can see more clearly what is a bigger upgrade. I am going with the ring, belt and neck.
BillDoor Nov 27th 2007 11:46AM
My plan is to get the Gladiator 4 piece bonus, while keeping my Season 2 offset items. Once I've got the 4 piece bonus, I'll probably upgrade to S3 Offset items, or get Rings/Amulets/Trinkets. My current weapon is good, so I'm not too concerned about upgrading it.
As I slowly accumulate arena points, I'll get S3 Armor. I feel that as long as you can maintain a reasonable amount of DPS, increasing your survival is more important.
Aled Davies Nov 27th 2007 11:51AM
For a BM Hunter in PvE you want a fast weapon to fit in more Steady Shot, Auto Shot pairs. In PvP you want a slow weapon to maximize each shot damage. So the PvP weapons aren't so great for a raiding BM Hunter. Use Cheeky's Spreadsheet and see how the different weapon speeds effect you raiding dps.
On the subject of the armor. One of the weaknesses of the PvP gear is the lack of +int so your mana pool will be limited so you'll have to chain pot to avoid going OOM. Once again its good gear but not so great for PvE. PvP is all about burst damage, raiding is about sustained damage so stuff like mana regen and mana pool sizes come into play.
David Bowers Nov 27th 2007 12:40PM
Good advice Aled (and all the others posting here!). Thanks!
For those who don't know what "Cheeky's Spreatsheet" is, I looked it up and found it here:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t9816-hunter_spreadsheets_development/
It's very complex, kind of like offline gear-comparing software -- an Excel spreadsheet with many hunter items already built in. You just have to select them from a menu, or else you can manually input the stats if you don't see your gear there.
Pfooti Nov 27th 2007 11:54AM
For the hunter, you should check out the Vengeful Gladiator's Waraxe. Great stats, for 1000 arena points and no personal rating requirement.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34014
In general, do what the other people said - stock up on whatever armor you can get. I'm just starting one char in the arena, and have another with a bit more gear, and the difference is clear - resilience and HP is the difference. The weapons are nice, but they're usually not a huge DPS upgrade, but the armors are big survivability upgrade.
As for me, I'm getting 5 pieces of Dragonhide (two Glad, three vindicators) for my brand-new Druid. It'll help his arena rating but more importantly: it's awesome for tanking too.
Smurk Nov 27th 2007 12:15PM
I'm sure no one debating which arena gear to buy cares, but I'm finding cost vs. time invested to be prohibitive in getting lower-level PVP gear. Battlegrounds used to be a good way to get at least a few blooz as you levelled, if not a 6- or 7-slot upgrade at 29/39-40/etc. However, 2.3's faster levelling means it's not time-efficient to stay in BGs long enough to get multiple pieces of 20-mark gear - you can gain another 10 levels in no time.
Well, that's fine. Except. Faster levelling also means everyone is bringing up an alt as fast as they can, and so green gear in the AH is scarce and/or exorbitantly expensive (even for stuff with crap stats like agility/spirit).
So does my level 39 paladin spend 50G for plate gear next level? Or does he play BGs until he gears himself for "free" (using time in which I could've levelled to 50)? And then, do I do it again at 49? Bah.
Sipnot Nov 27th 2007 12:20PM
Some good advice above but suggestions for a hunter such as me that has 75,000 honor points to spend would be great. Quick background 1) Have Valanos and Crystalforged Waraxe 2) All the Blue PvP set with a few blue gems and one epic PvP +crit gem 3) All vet epic gear including necklace 4) Pretty much only active player in guild so PuGs is a mainstay for me (like to find active guild but "full on hunters") 5) I love to PvP (specifically BG's)
I was thinking of getting the full S1 armor set then work on weapons - or best to pick up weapons and use the remaining points on S1 gear?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated (and I will check out the spredsheet mentioned above). Thanks gang.
BigDid Nov 27th 2007 3:08PM
We (hunters) have similars backgrounds & troubles. I began with some PVE blues -Valanos/Crystalforged- and a lot of greens. My time difference does'nt allow me to instance regularly so I went BG-PVP to gear up with blues and non-set epic. I now face the same dilemna but my feeling is that my survival is better with the already PVP-equipped stuff so I will go for the S1 Xbow first (just have 29000HP) and S1 gear after. Future will tell me if I was right..
esumiwa Nov 27th 2007 12:23PM
Erm, isnt there a game called Wow?
Seems like all wowinsider talks about is this game called Warcraft Arena.
Also, seems like WoW- the game - has been dropped by the designers for Warcraft Arena.
Bill Nov 27th 2007 12:29PM
How do you type that garbage and actually click submit?
Patch 2.3 brought you a brand new dungeon, patch 2.4 is bringing a new 25 man raid, and a new 5 man instance.
Perhaps if you are looking for something that interests you on this site, you should try out those links on the right side of the main stories.. you know, that pop out at you.
Of course there is going to be a lot of PvP talk, since you know.. this is the beginning of a new season.
Duncan Watson Nov 27th 2007 12:35PM
I do a weighted analysis of each item and then evaluate the cost. Then I take the weighted value and divide by the cost to see a gain/effort value. I use these results to determine the order to acquire gear.
Regarding how best to split effort, I love to approach issues like this in parallel. A lot of your available gear is available with BG honor. I would definitely acquire the S1 gear as long as it was an upgrade. I have a mix of gear to acquire from Heroics, BGs and Rep. So I am queuing for BGs while fishing and staying LFG for a selection of Heroics. It has been working for me and has the benefit of not being boring at all.
YPEELS40 Nov 27th 2007 12:56PM
Use the new feature to vote down comments like #13. maybe he ll realize no one wants to read the crap he writes.
David Bowers Nov 27th 2007 1:02PM
(The comment numbers change if someone adds a reply to a previous post, as I did, under Aled Davies. You'll have to "reply" to a post if you want to reference it directly, as Bill did, or else refer to the author's name only, not the number. Also, you needn't ask people to comment down a useless comment -- they'll do it anyway.)
Freehugz Nov 27th 2007 1:54PM
I'm in the exact same situation with my lock. I didn't even think twice about getting s1 weapon and s3 armore. But now after reading this i'm not sure. lol