Blizzard on Live Gamer: No way, no how
by Mike Schramm 
Dec 20th 2007 at 2:30PM
I've been reporting on our sister site Massively (just like WoW Insider, but for all MMOs) about Live Gamer, a startup that claims to be legitimizing RMT (real-money trading, which is spending real money on virtual items) in MMOs. But while there are a few big names supporting them already (Funcom, which is making Age of Conan, and Sony, which makes lots of different MMOs, including all the Everquests), there is one name that's missing from their supporters: Blizzard.And now we've heard that that's not going to change anytime soon. A "Blizzard rep" says in no uncertain terms that they're not interesting in RMT at all, in a sanctioned form or otherwise. "Not only do we believe that doing so would be illegal," they say, "but it also has the potential to damage the game economy and overall experience for the many thousands of others who play World of Warcraft for fun." Wow. Tell us how you really feel.
If I can be biased for a moment, that's great to hear. Blizzard has definitely been taking steps to make RMT obsolete rather than legit (by doing things like adding in daily quests and requiring things other than gold-- reputation, turn-ins-- to buy virtual items). There's no question that there's a lot of money to be made in RMT-- every day, virtual items seems to gain more and more real world value. But it's good to hear that Blizzard is invested in making their game fun, not selling the virtual items they create.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Economy
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Starman Dec 20th 2007 2:47PM
I think this needs some clarification. If Sony's on board, then it's probably ONLY through their Exchange program, NOT through regular servers. Regular servers still are not allowed to trade goods for money.
And again, with the word "illegal" /rolleyes. No cops are going to come to your door if you buy gold. It's against the EULA, but there are no laws against it.
TotalBiscuit Dec 20th 2007 3:21PM
Going to disagree with you there Starman. If one were to argue from the standpoint of intellectual property ownership then yes, the trading of said intellectual property that does not belong to you, is in fact, in many countries, illegal.
While the idea requires a test in court, it is safe to say that these items in game, are Blizzard's intellectual property, unless you can prove otherwise. In which case, they do have rights, and it is a breach of Intellectual Property law to violate those rights. While not a criminal act, is it still illegal under Civil Law.
BrianD Dec 20th 2007 3:23PM
I am sure the issues with legality are tied up with taxation. If there is a real monetary value attached to an item received in the game, then receiving that item can be construed as income, which is taxable in many countries. There has been talk from time to time of taxing these game items anyway - in real money - but what it would require would be an official way of converting money value to gear/gold/mats and back. These sorts of sites make that conversion all too clear.
Once the IRS (or other tax-collecting organ of the state)((and yes I mean organ)) knows that every gold you gather in WoW is worth $0.01 or $0.001, or whatever, then Blizzard will be required to report all transactions/earnings/trades and players will be required to pay taxes on them. Sound like fun at that point? When will we need a lobbyist or eight? Start our own QQ-PAC and fight for loopholes in the tax-code? Better to just keep it from starting...
TotalBiscuit Dec 20th 2007 3:27PM
For further reading on this issue, and the absurd complications it presents, this is a pretty decent article based in UK law - http://www.ren-reynolds.com/downloads/RReynolds-MMORPG-IPR.htm
Starman Dec 20th 2007 4:08PM
TB,
Interesting point. Untested? Sort of. Microsoft did once try to get users of Word to pay up for their financial gain. It could be seen that way (if you look at WoW as an application). I'd like to see if this does get tested someday for my own personal curiosity. However, we're still 100% against buying gold on our show.
TotalBiscuit Dec 20th 2007 4:33PM
I know fella, I listen when I get the chance :) We should have a chat sometime.
Your example is interesting. If we were to apply that to WoW, a decision would have to be made on whether you are 'creating' a character, or merely acquiring items which have been put there for you to eventually get ahold of. The Word case fails on the basis that Word was merely being used as a tool and the product created with it is entirely original. It's the same as arguing that the companies who sell you pen and paper have ownership of what you write with it.
WoW doesn't provide that much scope for creativity. There is an 'ideal' character, and that can be proved mathematically. There is no way within the game to exceed the 'best' available so it can be argued that the entire process of play is merely steps towards acquiring that 'ideal' character that Blizzard implemented into the game. Perhaps an example would be the difference between a bucket of basic lego bricks, and a more advanced logo construction set . The bucket of bricks allows you to build pretty much anything, within the bounds of the number of bricks you have. The construction set on the other hand, with it's more specialized parts, is quite clearly designed to allow you to build the 'ideal' model that you see on the front. While you can vary it up a bit, it will invariably not look as good as what you were supposed to be building, because the parts are specially designed in that way.
Even with that analogy it's tricky stuff, since that refers to physical property, which is far more clearcut as to who owns what. It's a fascinating discussion though.
James Dec 20th 2007 7:10PM
Glad to see Blizz handling this in the way they are.
rick gregory Dec 20th 2007 3:21PM
There's another reason I don't want WoW to have legit RMT... taxes.
If you start saying 1000g is available for $50... does the person who makes 10,000g over a year make $500? You might say that the IRS wouldn't care about such a small amount, but if there are 1m players in the US that's $500m.
And before you say 10,000g is a lot, it's really not over a year - farm 50g per day every day for a year and you'll have over 18,000g. Subtract a bunch for days off/not farming and you still have well over 10,000g.
NCteacher Dec 20th 2007 3:05PM
I'm glad blizz is staying away from this. Buying gold,items, levels etc does ruin the game to some extent and for the dignity of the player who plays to have fun and not to "buy" that fun in the form of online purchases is what they should uphold.
Rich Dec 20th 2007 3:14PM
Unfortunately, its the way of the future, whether Blizz likes it or not. There is a huge potential for companies to make serious money from selling IG money and items for RL money.
Sirusx69 Dec 20th 2007 3:35PM
Lets see, In my opinion people will still do it wither blizzard says its ok or not. there are plenty of trading sites out there where people can trade real money for characters or items. Its not like them saying no to this "Live Gamer" thing is going to stop anyone.
TotalBiscuit Dec 20th 2007 3:38PM
It's called principles. Just because the minority of players are unprincipled cheaters, does not mean that Blizzard have to cave in to it.
Right now Blizzard are in the position to dictate how MMO companies should be acting. They are far and away the most successful. I'm glad to see they're setting the kind of example they should be by trying to stamp on this worrying trend at every turn.
p-diddy Dec 20th 2007 4:18PM
While I do not but IG stuff with RL money, I fail to see why it is "cheating." I could cook a hamburger myself, but in a time-to-value assessment, it is worth the $3 to have McDonald's do it for me. It is the same thing - In terms of time-is-money, it is worth X real world dollars to me to have someone go do quests and get an item I want instead of me doing it.
I understand it takes away from the awe aspect of it - wow, you got so and so's sword. you must be awesome because you beat that quest when in fact I didn't, but I'd rather work for 4 hours and make enough real world money to pay for the sword AND dinner AND my laundry AND etc. etc. - all things that together would have taken me two or more days to accomplish.
You pay for services every day - this is no different.
-p-
TotalBiscuit Dec 20th 2007 4:40PM
P-diddy. Your example works fine in real life, but this is not real life. Real life is not an even playing field, and it never can be. A game environment is a lot different. Would it be acceptable for me, for example, to give 20 bucks to the banker in Monopoly in exchange for $3,000 in Monopoly money? After all, I could have spent some time and played wisely and earned that, but why do that when I can now just buy out pretty much everything and nuke 4 houses/hotel on every complete set?
Not a perfect example, but you would surely not argue that that isn't cheating, right?
The thing about games that do not require much actual skill, like WoW, is that the commodity of Time quickly replaced that of skill. While most games take time in order to develop skill, in WoW, time can become akin to skill, because time allows you to acquire all of these items, not your actual ability to play. While this now has a limited scope, what with raid encounters (and access to them, via raiding guilds) becoming harder and harder, it is still a factor.
If we follow this particular train of thought, we must conclude that time is the dominant commodity in WoW, and that artificially injecting it into your game whereas you would not otherwise be able to do so, must in fact, be cheating. If Time = Skill, then buying Time is akin to using an aimbot hack in an FPS. I am not good enough to headshot everyone, but with this artificial injection of 'skill', I now can.
The principle is the same, if you believe that Time = Skill in WoW and MMORPGs in general. If you do not of course then this analogy will not be palatable to you, but I'd be happy to debate the issue of Time as a commodity.
Simon Dec 20th 2007 5:17PM
No - the reason anyone with a brain doesn't want anything to do with this is money laundering.
Not only does it happen, but even if it doesn't proving that it isn't happening is a nightmare.
Effectively, if wow currency starts to be convertible to real currency Blizzard becomes a bank. They have to follow all the rules of a bank and have all the issues around that as well - but without the nice bit of making money themselves.
Sony are being plain dim about this.
SimpleSurvival Dec 20th 2007 3:52PM
blizz could make millions!!!
all they have to do is sell gold from their official website at 1/10th the cost gold sellers are. Since it's blizz, all they need to do is key in the number and it magically appears in your bank...
no need to farm or raid (we all know how much of a hassle that is)... just key in your credit card and you too can get the twin blades of azzinoth sent to you in the mail!!!
Blizz could even sell rep... did you grind wintersaber trainers til your mouse broke? for a low low cost of $45.95, you can get exalted in minutes!
SimpleSurvival Dec 20th 2007 4:01PM
even better, with all this gold selling out there running rampant, blizz is gonna need to make some new money sinks
so, for the few people who don't adopt the new world order, they can spend 10k gold to get a month of wow for free!!!
(Some restrictions apply, Please see the Terms and Conditions for full details. Not available in AK or HI)
Theserene Dec 22nd 2007 4:35AM
Let me guess, in order for governments to solve financial problems they should just print more money and hand it out?
It destroys an economy to do things like that.
Theserene Dec 20th 2007 3:54PM
I'm glad to see them taking a stance on this, at current I report gold sellers and anyone who buys gold/accounts because I strongly believe that those kind of actions do indeed ruin a game.
Joe P Dec 21st 2007 3:28PM
Here here