Killing off our heroes left and right
by Mike Schramm 
Dec 22nd 2007 at 11:00AM
This conversation seems to come up whenever a new raid instance is announced, and it looks like the Sunwell will be no exception. Vulpe from Venture Co. sends a shout out to Blizzard.. for killing all of our heroes. In Burning Crusade alone, Illidan, Kael'thas, and now Zul'jin have fallen to our raids, and in the coming future, we're going to see Kil'jaeden and maybe even Arthas bite the dust. And later in the thread, Melynda comes up with an even longer list of people deep in the lore whom we've seen fit to off.Sure, as Bornakk says, everyone who's gotten some has pretty much deserved it (and even though we don't know what's happening with Arthas yet, let's not forget that he murdered, y'know, all those people, including his father). And Blizzard has told us before that they feel that they have more than enough lore to go around-- even if they kill off the Warcraft stars, they've got other folks on deck to rise up into the storylines.
But the most interesting thing to come from this iteration is that we have to kill these people-- if we didn't, we wouldn't be the heroes of Azeroth that we're supposed to be. Back when WoW first came out, the devs told us that it would take a raid of level 80s (this was back when level 60 was the max) to take down Arthas, and guess what-- when we see Arthas in a combat situation, we will actually be level 80. We may be killing off all of the heroes of Warcraft III, but it's only to make room for the new heroes of World of Warcraft-- namely us.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Raiding, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Odok Dec 22nd 2007 11:08AM
Not to mention we're seeing heroes born in WoW rise up through the ranks, as it were. Tirion Fordring is one big example that comes to mind. Saurfang is definitely another. Not to mention heroes from the extended lore like Rhonin showing up.
At least the big names like Illidan are being killed with the help of iconic figures, i.e. Maiev and Akama. So if people are really that upset with players killing Illidan, they can just say Maiev killed him with the help of Akama and a band of adventurers.
Matt Graham Dec 22nd 2007 11:09AM
I'm pretty sure that we won't be killing Kil'jaeden. We'll be killing a weakened version of Kil'jaeden that is probably just some kind of "copy" of him.
zygote Dec 22nd 2007 11:34AM
And yet the greatest murderer that Azeroth and Outland has ever known continues to amass power and bend all that encounter him to his will — using them in his murderous plot.
You know who I'm talking about...
That's right...Hemet Nesingwary.
He's even corrupted his son!
When will it all end?
killah Dec 22nd 2007 12:26PM
oh god, i laughed!
Shalmaneser Dec 22nd 2007 1:10PM
I hope there's a WoLK quest from a deer or whatever to kill Hemet Nesingwary
Rich Dec 22nd 2007 11:33AM
So what your really saying is, when we're 4 expansions in and everyone is level 150, we'll be traveling to a new continent called Europe. There we will be killing the raid bosses Kungen and Awake.
Rodrígo Dec 22nd 2007 11:40AM
Never. You forgot about the most interesting WoW experience
Caverns of time
Who wouldn't like to play all of the WCIII Mission over and over in WoW again?
Adam Dec 22nd 2007 1:48PM
Yup, CoT definitely opens up a lot of possibilities for raids. We can even go kill evil dudes that are already dead in the lore (see: everything in Mount Hyjal).
Though, what I'd like to see is more fights where we don't actually kill the bosses. For example, just slap some sense into Malygos instead of killing a dragon aspect (which would be bad lorewise).
TeragX Dec 22nd 2007 11:58AM
yknow wut? ppl need to stop complaining! Its the damn Warcraft MMO! You have 1 of 2 options, you can go in and fight ppl from the lore, with indepth backstories, or this can be like The FF:Spirits within, where we get lots of crap not related to the universe, but its in the title of the game. If its a warcraft MMO, you're going to see the death of major lore figures, thats just the way it is, would you people really prefer to go out there and fight people who you know nothing about aside from the quest text, and have nothing to get hyped about? If illidan was instead some random guy they invented for the game, i for one would have nothing to be excited about. If we went to northrend and didnt fight arthas, it would suck, and wow would end. People need to get over it, yes, the lore ppl are dying at your hands, but its story progression as well. Illidan needed to die, he was pure evil by this point. If people dont stop complaining about this stuff, blizzard might actually listen and we will end up going to places like Icecrown glacier and fighting random generic fantasy named character with evil sword, and thats not fun!
Adam Dec 22nd 2007 2:00PM
I'm fine with killing off lore characters, but not every single raid boss needs to be a huge important character. Someone listed them in another comment but if you think about all the big lore characters we've killing in BC, it's staggering.
Also, you say you'd hate for them to just make up new characters to be raid bosses but at the rate we're churning through lore characters they're going to need to do a lot of that eventually. I wouldn't mind if they made up new characters, it gives us more lore. And if you really think about it, all the raid bosses that are from earlier Warcraft games were already just "made up for the game".
Theserene Dec 22nd 2007 3:30PM
First off, please learn to write in something approaching English if you want people to actually take stock of your argument.
Secondly, the point is that after they've successfully killed off most of the people in the Lore, then what?
NCteacher Dec 22nd 2007 11:59AM
I dont understand who these people arguing about killing off Warcrafts Heroes "want" us to kill. Do they want blizz to start making up random people on random unrelated lore lands to kill off. I would much rather keep it the way it is because it seems to be working out well.
JMCampbell Dec 22nd 2007 11:59AM
Off-topic, but doesn't that image (Arthas, I think.) look like Kiefer Sutherland?
Dunwich Dec 22nd 2007 12:15PM
It's a fair point, but it's a big world. We'd never heard of Ragnaros, or C'thun (Or indeed the Quiraj!) but they were still the Big Bads for a time. I can see the need to have big-name characters like Illidan and Arthas, but on the other hand my complaint with the Burning Crusade is after the initial game (Where we fought barely any pre-established background characters) suddenly we're facing down Illidan, Kael'thas, Vashj, Kargath Bladefistand Teron Gorefiend, and hanging around old heroes like Khadgar and Danath Trollbane.
It just felt a little less epic when all the big names came out to play. I'd rather see a lot more new characters, or old bit-players, than automatically rushing to face down the old heroes.
Might be why I liked Outland so much. Whilst we had plenty of old faces (Albeit sometimes a bit too many) we still had tons of fresh, new characters and threats wandering around. If Wrath can fine-tune the balance, I'll be happy. Because having no pre-established characters can be rather dull, but having nothing but big names leaves little room for further growth.
lirean Dec 22nd 2007 12:18PM
Speaking as an RPer...just say "defeated" and move on. ^^
But does it really matter? It's lore created for the game/s so it only makes sense that the players have the opportunity to defeat the villans in the game's lore.
It's not like WoW was based off a film or a famous series of books, it was created for the game, so it only makes sense that players battle the lores great villans.
And besides, they can create something else quite easily if push came to shove and they needed something new.
Hellstorm|INC Dec 22nd 2007 12:28PM
I used to be a member of Suncrown on The Venture Co server. I knew Vulpe. He was VERY annoying. I mean this IS a valid question and all, but I can't really keep from rolling my eyes when seeing who the person was who asked it.
I'm glad I'm not a part of that guild/server anymore.
Odok Dec 22nd 2007 12:29PM
Another complaint is that all of the main villains in TBC were just kind of... there. Illidan yelled at us through a cinematic, and some yells in SMV, but mostly it's just walking in and "lol Kael'thas!" Honestly, Paltheon the Calculator felt like more of a threat than anything else in Outland.
But the devs know this, and are promising a much bigger "epic" feel to the villains in WLK.
And yeah, you aren't killing Kil'jaeden. He's in the process of being summoned, and you rush in to stop it before it finishes.
Hoggersbud Dec 22nd 2007 12:54PM
Does it matter who we kill? They keep coming back.
I think we need to deal with the real problem of WOW. The Spirit Healers. They'll raise anybody from the grave.
Thus Illidan will NEVER be defeated forever, he'll just keep coming back.
Elmo Dec 22nd 2007 1:01PM
Don't forget Magtheridon, Kel'thuzad, Archimonde, (shade of) Akama, (shade of) Aran and Lady Vashj.
we will also kill Mal'ganis and Malygos.
don't like us killing characters from earlier Warcraft games and books.
Odok Dec 22nd 2007 4:10PM
"Don't forget Magtheridon, Kel'thuzad, Archimonde, (shade of) Akama, (shade of) Aran and Lady Vashj.
we will also kill Mal'ganis and Malygos.
don't like us killing characters from earlier Warcraft games and books."
There's no guarantee that you kill Malygos. There's still hope that you merely beat the crazy out of him, or Alexstraza interjects to try and turn him back.
0% speech:
"So... you betray us as well... Alexstraza?"
"I do not betray you, Malygos! I've come to talk sense into you! Don't let madness doom you like it did Neltharion!"
"You side with... mortals. I can feel... your essence... burning through them! Mortals... who've come... to strike me down. And for what? Trinkets... and glory..."
Or the like. And you don't kill Mal'ganis either. You just drive him off and Arthas finishes it in Northrend.