Do summoning stones need neutral guards?
by David Bowers 
Dec 26th 2007 at 1:31PM
I play on RP servers only, but when they first came out, I tried an RP-PvP server for a while. I kept plugging away at it till I got to my mid thirties and finally gave up. Ever since then it's seemed to me that players on PvP servers are people who like their game to be extra difficult, and they don't mind if that means they have to suffer through the kind of situations that would submerge a "normal" gamer in intolerable frustration. They just accept that leveling up means doing lots and lots and lots of ghost runs, because other high-level characters will gank you and they will camp your corpse, and there's not much you can do about it. That's just the cost of being elite, to them -- having gone through it, it's as though they feel baptized by fire.That's why I'm always surprised when a player from a PvP server asks for some sort of help from Blizzard with such frustrating situations. A blood elf hunter named Arkdemon is asking for neutral guards at all summoning stones -- apparently he's had trouble getting to his instance when there's a bunch of PvP going on there. But isn't that the whole point? Isn't PvP on a PvP server supposed to get in the way of PvE stuff, just like all the other struggles these players go through leveling up? The fact that you can effectively conquer a summoning stone, raid entrance or otherwise important spot on a PvP server is the whole reason people play there. If you take away this sort of challenge, or nerf it until it's not so serious a problem for people who just wanna PvE that night, then what's the point of even having a PvP server to begin with? (Zul'Aman is a possible exception to this rule, since it's so much more accessible to the Horde than the Alliance, but even in that case, a number of hardcore PvPers cried out how much they hate the addition of guards there.)
Bornakk seems to agree with me for the most part, but he mentions that Blizzard will indeed add guards (or indeed do whatever they want) if they feel it is necessary. What's your opinion?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Baluki Dec 26th 2007 1:35PM
I'm trying to work up some sympathy for all the people out there who chose to play on a PvP server and are complaining about getting ganked, but I just can't.
?nema Dec 26th 2007 1:41PM
lol priceless...I love the fact that people complain about pvp, it just makes it that much sweeter everytime they die by my hand. Sure I got my ass handed to me by 60's in T3 back in the day, and yes I still get my ass handed to me from time to time now, but it's A PVP SERVER, for the love of God transfer, reroll, whatever but don't complain. If life ever started becoming fair I doubt it would be on a PVP server on WoW. Get some gear or well geared friends or gtfo.
Candina@WH Dec 26th 2007 3:05PM
And if you can't get to the instances to get gear? then what?
I run on a PVP server (Wildhammer) because PVE is simply boring. Where's the risk? the challenge? the fear? Sure I die. But, i also don't gank. If player is more than 10 levels below me, I ignore him, unless he's ganking other players (more than 10 levels below him). THEN I kill him and park his a$$ until he doesn't come back.
killahxxx Jan 1st 2008 6:40PM
Well, Candina@WH, if you hate PvE then doing instances to get gear is the wrong way to do it. PvP to get gear! You can get alot of good gear by pvping, you know.
robotrock Dec 26th 2007 1:43PM
as much as I hate trying to get into SM without being killed by a bored 70 mage who spams /spit and barely has 6k hp....I think the idea of guards is stupid
it is so much more satisfying to either gang up and kill that 70 with a ragtag mob of mid 30ers or to call in reinforcements and have a small Alliance army hanging out while we summon
Orestes Dec 26th 2007 1:50PM
Remind me again why people even bother with PvP servers?
But seriously, if you make the choice to roll on a PvP server, you should be prepared to live with the annoyances thereof.
Shumina Dec 26th 2007 1:51PM
It's PvP. All gamers know what that comes with. If you sign up for it, you're signing up for ALL of it. Enjoy!
Razhlok Dec 26th 2007 1:54PM
Being part of a very active PvP realm (Illidan) since launch I can say that it comes with the territory of being on a PvP realm. This is what being on a PvP realm is about. Taking and holding the meeting stone outside popular instances is probably the best outdoor PvP in the game, atm.
Ancalimon Dec 26th 2007 5:13PM
i do understand that theres going to be ganking goin on in a PVP server, but MOST ppl dont want to pvp 100% of the time, which is now what it is. on my server, for an average 2 hour play time for me, i will get about 20 minutes of game play before the opposing faction finds me, ganks me, and camps my corpse for the duration of my time online. if they're red they're dead...ok, thats fine, but when its a lvl 70 camping a lvl 30 for hours on end, wheres the fun in that. that's like me finding a defenseless mouse outside and booting it as hard as possible, then waiting for another one to come by. this isn't really PVP, its more "i'm lvl 70 and bored, who's time and money can i waste tonight?". i do agree, without PVP the game gets boring and repetative, but come on, theres gotta be a line somewhere. i'm paying good money to attempt to play with friends to end up running around dead more times than not. and before anyone says "just change servers nubsauce!", why would i want to pay MORE money to go to a server with nothing to keep the game a bit different. that can add up pretty quick. i think there should be some sort of lvl limit to ganking, if theres no honor to be gained, there shouldnt be an option to kill over and over, unless attacked first.
just my rant for the day
Kat Dec 26th 2007 2:03PM
@7
I agree with everything you said. Once, and only once, I attempted to play on a pvp server so I could play with a group of friends that were already established there. But in WoW, as in life, people are asshats. I have a job, college, and a relationship and would prefer to spend what limited time I have in the game actually getting to play.
If one chooses to roll on a pvp server and continue to play there, they have to accept the consequences.
Safety Dancer Dec 26th 2007 2:03PM
I started playing a PVP server because thats the one my friends played on. I will agree with Arkdemon in that its a pain in the a$$ when your trying to run an instance and you keep getting ganked, but thems the brakes and you kinda just need to deal w/ it or go play on a non-PVP server. Its not like bliz is forcing you to play PVP. Asking bliz to change the PVP servers to PVE servers is just stupid. Every time you are 'ganked' or 'attacked' while questing that is the true definition of the PVP server. PVP means PVP and 'Players' = 'Douche bags' END OF STORY. Alliance hate Horde and Horde hate Alliance, thats like saying that you shouldn't be allowed to attack Nazi's in CoD...LESS QQ and more Pew Pew!
Rearadmiral (H)
Black Dragonflight (US)
70 UD Rogue
Whome Dec 27th 2007 12:32AM
I did the same as you: started on a PvP server b/c a friend played there, found out it sucked a$$, then rerolled on a PvE. And I agree that blizz shouldn't turn PvP into PvE.
Here's the problem: I should be able to play with my friend (on our mains) even if we want to play under two different rule sets. That's what blizz needs to address. If they can give us cross server battlegrounds, then the capacity is there to give us cross server raiding (lower level instances included).
Alex Dec 26th 2007 2:05PM
I was excited to see this topic since I just rerolled on a PvP server last week after a whole year of PvE. My thoughts are:
1) No, the neutral guards thing is a terrible idea. As many people have pointed out, the state of "anarchy" in a PvP server is exactly the point.
2) As for the whole "why bother with PvP" etc, for me it was because I did a bit of research and noticed that most of the top guilds seemed to be on PvP servers. Ergo there were either better, or better organized, or more serious players, or some combination of the above, in a greater density on those servers. So far I have to say I've really found that to be the case...I think the point is that you simple have to THINK more on a PvP server, you can't quest as passively as you do on PvE. You have to think about killing your mobs out of sightlines of the main roads, not traveling along the main roads, always keeping your health high, learning how to frequently change your camera angle to check around you, etc.
Omegi Dec 26th 2007 2:22PM
You pointed out a lot of things I have been doing as a habit. Made me giggle that these were byproducts of a pvp server. I had never really put any thought into it.
I also have mob names turned off unless i target them. This way all of the enemy players names show up as red and I immediately know its a potential threat. I also size up their armor, check their class and level and depending on which character I am will determine how hard of a fight it will be. If it's a hard fight that I will probably die in I typically find a way out of the area temporarily.
A few tips for a pvp server.
1.) Never go stealth in front of the enemy. It's seen as a challenge and you will be confronted. Even if you are low level.
2.) Never target the other player and do nothing afterward. That's like staring a dog in the eyes. Either don't target him and just use mouse hover or target and wave.
3.) If you show the other player respect it will greatly increase your chance to live.
4.) If you gank often you will quickly be put on all sorts of hit lists. So it's up to you to use or abuse Karma.
Krick Dec 26th 2007 2:08PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I ended up on a PvP server was to be on a server with one of my real life friends. I don't particularly like being on a PvP server and if I could go back and do it all over, I'd certainly choose a PvE server. The problem is that everyone I know is on my server and I've leveled several toons to 70, so transferring isn't particularly desirable or affordable.
On the bright side, after my first toon, I quickly learned to completly skip tarren mill and stranglethorn vale while leveling and it makes the whole experience much more pleasant.
Also, since the season 1 welfare epics were made available, most of my server population is in the battlegrounds farming honor and not out ganking lowbies. Though, I'm sure that once they get their gear, the ganking will resume.
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com
Omegi Dec 26th 2007 2:11PM
There's no way one person can be corpse camped for hours. Not if you have a guild, a friend, a second character or any knowledge of how to rez in a semi good location and run away.
I have not once met a player on a PVP server who complained about being camped for hours. Most generally there isn't any long term PVP at all. Too many interested parties want to PVP and they will finish a fight too fast.
If anything I would say that the guards need to be removed from all major spots. They are all broken at best. Perhaps the only town they truly work in is Gadgetzan. All other towns there are dead spots that people can attack from and town raids just don't happen.
To me, they have wussified wow too much as it is.
Lunati Dec 26th 2007 2:11PM
Mmm... it's extremely frustrating when you end up fighting over a major meeting stone (Karazhan is amoung the worst on my server... whole raids are delayed hours due to fighting) but it leads to having different ways of handling things. Everyone heads to the meeting stone, and summons the 1 or 2 stragglers who are taking awhile, even for 5 mans. If you're getting attacked you call for reinforcements and help.
Alliance running SM almost always has a level 70 bodyguard with them on my server. And being attacked by an entire SSC raid is always trippy. But you call for help in guild chat, and in local defense, and quickly you have a small war until one side backs down. Don't forget that a good chunk of the time both sides don't want to PvP at all, and then it's just a lazy wave, maybe some vauge emotions to chat back and fourth, and you carry on your way or maybe do something oddball like help with the skettis escort quest. (If you help them , they'll remember you most of the time and leave you alone when they see YOU doing it).
Adding the different dynamic of possible conflict makes WoW an entirely different game on PvP servers versus PvE.
peaglemancer Dec 26th 2007 5:53PM
"Karazhan is amoung the worst on my server... whole raids are delayed hours due to fighting"
How so? If the stone is "occupied", everyone just has to walk/fly/ride in themselves... at worst this delays a raid 20 minutes.
Lunati Dec 26th 2007 9:34PM
They're delayed for hours because people are relentlessly slaughtering eachother at the summoning stone :) Think one or two horde raid groups fighting one or two alliance raid groups. It is a PvP server after all...
Kire Dec 26th 2007 2:17PM
I have been torn on this issue for some time now. I would have never roled on a PVP server if I had known it was like this. But as the article eludes to I do have a large sense of accomplishment finally making it to level 70 on a PVP server. It was a long hard road. Many nights spent with my blood boiling (I swear 1 night sticks out in my mind cause I must have been on the edge of having a Heart Attack or something cause my chest was hurting. o.0) making corpse runs and saying things I shouldnt have.
Arguably this is what PVP is all about fair or not. My story is a unique one. I rolded on a PVP sever becasue my friend said that he would help me with the game and so on (which turned out not to be true). So by the time I reached Contested Areas like Darkshire, and STV most of the ganking had quit becasue BC was released and all the high level gankers went to the Outlands. So I continued to level and didnt have much trouble until they hit 70 and were bored again.
So in short as I can somehow drum up some sympathy for this request it gets quickly shot back down because its PVP thats the way its supposed to be. And as all PVPers know about meeting stones..... /p OK the horde is camping the meeting stone so you will have to get here on your own.