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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDo summoning stones need neutral guards?
by David Bowers 
Dec 26th 2007 at 1:31PM
I play on RP servers only, but when they first came out, I tried an RP-PvP server for a while. I kept plugging away at it till I got to my mid thirties and finally gave up. Ever since then it's seemed to me that players on PvP servers are people who like their game to be extra difficult, and they don't mind if that means they have to suffer through the kind of situations that would submerge a "normal" gamer in intolerable frustration. They just accept that leveling up means doing lots and lots and lots of ghost runs, because other high-level characters will gank you and they will camp your corpse, and there's not much you can do about it. That's just the cost of being elite, to them -- having gone through it, it's as though they feel baptized by fire.That's why I'm always surprised when a player from a PvP server asks for some sort of help from Blizzard with such frustrating situations. A blood elf hunter named Arkdemon is asking for neutral guards at all summoning stones -- apparently he's had trouble getting to his instance when there's a bunch of PvP going on there. But isn't that the whole point? Isn't PvP on a PvP server supposed to get in the way of PvE stuff, just like all the other struggles these players go through leveling up? The fact that you can effectively conquer a summoning stone, raid entrance or otherwise important spot on a PvP server is the whole reason people play there. If you take away this sort of challenge, or nerf it until it's not so serious a problem for people who just wanna PvE that night, then what's the point of even having a PvP server to begin with? (Zul'Aman is a possible exception to this rule, since it's so much more accessible to the Horde than the Alliance, but even in that case, a number of hardcore PvPers cried out how much they hate the addition of guards there.)
Bornakk seems to agree with me for the most part, but he mentions that Blizzard will indeed add guards (or indeed do whatever they want) if they feel it is necessary. What's your opinion?
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Rainnajax Dec 26th 2007 3:11PM
I think that as with anything, there is good form and bad form in the game. Ganking lowbies, that have no chance of defending themselves is bad form. Going back over and over to kill the same newbie, even worse form. Even though this is a game, and it is about factions and war, it does not have to be in bad form. What happened to honor? What happened to recognizing when someone is not at your same level. I don't play PVP for exactly this same reason. I don't like the idea of being ganked by someone that I might have ordinarily tried to assist. I have been known to help lower levels (below lvl 20) who might be in a bind, no matter what the faction, and this might make me a softy, but in the final analysis, it is a game and it's supposed to be fun. What is fun for the level 70 standing by and ganking a lvl 20 over and over, cannot possibly be fun for the lvl 20. We all chose to play this game for entertainment and fun, so we all need to remember that manners do not just go out the door when we are in game. If I am having a particlularly difficult time completing a quest becuase Alliance is jumping in front of me and taking my targets, I do my best to ignore them. If I can assist a single player, I do, which overall is good form and we should all recognize this. We have a very wide age range in this game, so I guess maturity levels will differ. Maybe WoW should have a realm or two that are limited to either adult players or youngsters so that those of us who want to play the game with other people in our maturity level, can do so. Then I might entertain the idea of PVP if I am playing against other players who have the same or similar mindset and play in good form, not bad.
:-)
Rainnajax
Freehugz Dec 26th 2007 3:15PM
Stop posting @##
The number change whenever someone replys to a comment.
About the summoning stones. Leave them as is. Summoning stones are the only worthwile world pvp objectives.
Freehugz Dec 26th 2007 3:22PM
@Epiny. I can almost guarantee you that the "all day" part is a blatant lie. You probably do it twice then get destroyed by someone who lands on you and attacks you first. Then you probably complain about how they suck but only win cuz they have gear. Then you cowardly rez and run away. Seems to be the trend with people like you.
Epiny Dec 26th 2007 3:24PM
@Rainnajax
I actually agree with you for the most part. We do all choose this game for entertainment and we do not want to be "griefed". I have also helped out lowbies of the opposite faction, as well as blown them up. Really depends on my mood and how many times I've been ganked that day.
As far an adult server is concerened, that wont solve anything. Adults like ganking too. I don't understand why somoene who ganks is automatically assumed to be a minor. Just because you disagree with their play style doesn't make them immature.
Diaz Dec 26th 2007 3:28PM
The Guards are a horrible idea. Yes it's annoying.. .but that's what you signed up for on a pvp server. You get the thrill of always having to watch your back. You have to think about where and when to pull a mob and IF you can use your full abilities. You always have to keep something in reserve 'just in case'. You have to watch your health religiously.
And guess what?
You get to make sure that the other players are doing the same. You have the option to kill at a moments notice and you play under that same threat.
If you get taken out laugh it off and applaud the other player for pulling it off. Then if reasonable, hunt them down and return the favor. It's what a pvp server is about; Love it or hate it that's what it is about.
One shot a lowbie? Sure. But don't be surprised if his guild full of 70's pops in to finish what you started. Do you have to deal with jerks? Sure, loads of them. Now imagine the joy when you see that 70 again when you can go toe to toe.
Don't like it? Play on a pve server and run bgs when you are 'in the mood'.
infection Dec 26th 2007 3:32PM
"Playing on a PVP server doesn't mean that you are elite. It means that you are either retarded, masochistic, or an asshat. "
Comments like that show some people just don't like to die. They only want the fight to be in their advantage or not fight at all. I'm glad we have pve servers for your type.
I started out on a pvp server and was one that got so frustrated while trying to do farming or quest. Then I rolled up a pve nooblet and played there all for about 2 months when I finally realized I was having ZERO fun because you have NO competition at all.
Farm all day and not worry about it. Bots can go wild and farm the area you were wanting to and there is nothing you can do about it.
Well... not on a pvp server. If you want to farm, you better be watching whats going on. None of that "get to 1/3 health and then bandage crap" because you'll be ghost running to your body.
And whoever got camped for HOURS UPON HOURS, please... not one person I've ever known camps someone for hours (and I know some people that have deserved it). 5 deaths? maybe, but I seriously doubt someone would want to do that to some random person. Now if you were the one that had been griefing me at the farm in hillsbrad with your 50th lvl warrior? Yeah, you deserve whatever treatment you get. A guild could put people on shifts to camp you, wouldn't bother me a bit, and your dumba** deserves it. But don't try to make a Pvp server out to be something it isn't just because you got ganked 2 times in a row.
My toons gets ripped apart from time to time, but hey, I know I'll be doing it as well one day. This guy is just trying make the pvp server into a pve zone with optional areas to pvp.
I'm like everyone else... reroll pve.
Hoggersbud Dec 26th 2007 3:32PM
Too many people are idiots for PVP to work. I've had low levels try to kill me when I'm low on health. I've had high levels gank me out of nowhere. What's the point? Making yourself feel better because you can take advantage of someone? You might as well be mugging little old ladies.
And there's nothing you can do about negative behavior either. You don't lose honor when you hit somebody 30-40, 50 levels below you. You don't get any kind of stigma, or penalty. The horde and alliance don't care. You might lose rep in some cases, but that's about it.
You know why Blizzard had to add guards to Zul'Aman? Because they knew folks would exploit it. The Horde had an advantage there, and don't get me wrong, the Alliance would do the same thing if a raid instance got put in Darkshore or Westfall. Personally, I wish they'd put some guards around SM during the Halloween event, that and made the summoning stone open to 70s. Most of the time? I'm cool with it being in a Horde Zone. There's a minimal number of quests there, and you can slip in easy enough, even as a ghost. But it was unfair to put in a high-level mob obviously intended to get people to come there and loot him and then leave folks at a disadvantage that simply cannot be overcome in any way. I don't mind that people can be better geared for PVP than me. I do mind that they can choose to flag or not.
People are jerks. PVP doesn't do anything about that, and no, being on a PVP server doesn't mean you're cooler. It just means that's how you've chosen to play the game. Insulting folks for saying they might want limits to the PVP? Not demonstrating anything but your own immaturity.
Hell, if you want full-out PVP, why not just make every zone PVP mandatory AND include your own faction in it. Don't like the banker? Kill him! Kill that AH barker! Take out the annoying gold-spammers....now that, that, would be satisfying.
Eternalpayn Dec 26th 2007 8:57PM
The Horseman was in a horde zone for a reason:
Lorewise, Hallow's End is the Undead's holiday. SM is right outside of UC. Coincidence? I think not.
Slayblaze Dec 26th 2007 3:35PM
Isn't in the next patch that Warlocks will be able to summon someone from wherever they are in the world, to inside any instance? I know I read it in pre-release patch notes somewhere.
That would pretty much put an end to much of the meeting stone problem...just make sure you invite your favorite 'lock to the raid (and remember to tip them plenty o' gold! They just saved you a long journey, and you got to bypass the pvp at the stone!)
Epiny Dec 26th 2007 3:42PM
@ Slayblaze
Yes that was in the patch notes. I would assume that it doesn't work in TK though.
@Hoggersbud
Wow way to take something and completly stretch it out of context to try and make a point. Same faction PvP has no bearing on this topic.
Hoggersbud Dec 26th 2007 3:56PM
I was offering a suggestion to those people who consider PVP some sort of holy grail and who spit upon anybody who might have a problem with the system not being exactly fair. Really, if you want to be a big brave player on a PVP server, why not have the balls to ask for full-on PVP experience?
People who mock others for not enjoying aspects of the PVP experience as cowards or carebears....do not enjoy my respect if they're not willing to go the distance.
Believe it or not, there's a context for my comment, which comes from Knights of the Dinner Table, which has had a parody MMO called World of Hackcraft. In it, you don't get free rez's. You die? You'd better hope your friends can find a priest to pay to have you raised. Otherwise? New character for you.
If any of the folks who believe in PVP are willing to go all out like that, then I'll at least agree they're going all the way and respect them for the courage of their convictions. Otherwise, I'll just note their enthusiasm for PVP is not complete.
And that is part of this topic, as referenced by the numerous people who have chosen to be condescending about it. But hey, if you want, you can reply to any of the rest of my comment.
Xerion Dec 26th 2007 5:25PM
I dont post here often but i have been reading for a long time. About the guards at the stones... bad idea. What would all the other players that have gone months even years of having problems getting people to an instance, say about this? While one person or maybe 1000 people have an issue with it, there is no reason to change a game mechanic in this manner.
I have played nothing but PvP since i started wow about 2 1/2 years ago. You earn your lvls, you earn your skills, and when you reach the top and people start talking about you on forums you realize that you are that much better for it.
To all the poeple that say "qq" go somewhere else if you dont like it, i couldnt agree less. I suggest that every one rolls at least 1 PvP chr. It changes the game so much and just makes you a better player in general. PvP is a great experiance, and I would never roll PvE.
As far as getting ganked yeah it is a hastle but if you learn to just walk away and have a snack or even just get something to drink, call a RL friend, maybe even go outside for some fresh..... what is that called.... OH YEAH AIR! you will find that they will become impatient and leave. Its just something you have to deal with. When your 70 than you can do it all you want as well. Its just that way.
On the SM stone. I have been ganked mroe there than anywhere else. But im a warlock so if i have an issue getting people there i will just summon them at the instance entrance but that is not safe either. so no matter what way you look at it we will find ways to kill eachother. That is how we are that is why we play and that is what makes the game piss you off one moment, and than ROFL another when you are doing the same. Fact of the matter is that all those people that gank you when you are lower, had it done to them they are just returning the favor.
At the comment of alliance being asshats. think about what you say before you say it. Both sides have asshat 10-13 year olds that need to measure their epeen. so be an adult which i hope most of you can think like that are on here, and deal with it. Your an adult or young adult are you really going to let a child piss you off? Just laugh it off write their name down and return the favor.
And for some added fun think about this. make a trial account on the same server oppsite faction and /who the person that did it and hunt them down like a rabid Tazmanian Devil! make them log or call people to waist there time. I find this highly enjoyable.
That is my 2 cents!
Clymenus (a)
52 Human Lock
imparush Dec 26th 2007 4:11PM
70 killing 20 is not pvp it is peolpe who need to feel overpowered.
if u kill someone 10+ lvl lower than u there should be a debuff every time, so in the end the 70 would be powerless to the 20. They can also do as a game with pvp does, make the ganker to chiken so they can do nothing and the low lvl can get away. Don't get me wrong I love pvp but it is not pvp when a player need 1 hit or spell to be killed.
Epiny Dec 26th 2007 4:25PM
@Imparush WoW =/= Warhammer
Gridneo Dec 26th 2007 4:47PM
Wow... When I viewed the comments, I didn't expect to see so many people bashing PvP servers... I musta missed something in my years of playing, for I don't know why anybody would play on a non-PvP server. Just doesn't make sense to limit the game play in that way... Play smarter if you're getting griefed. If you can't handle it, go play some Fury (Ha).
On the subject, I like the idea of neutral guards. Never really been ganked around a meeting stone, because I don't think I've ever used one. Outland instances seem the common place for gankville, but it doesn't take much to get a few people together and hit back.
Geeze.
Benny Dec 26th 2007 5:10PM
Remember "dishonor". When I started playing, there was a penalty for sadistic idiots who would gank lowbies. Honor came right out of their bottom line. I have no idea why that penalty was removed. Ever since that patch in Oct, you'd have to be a freaking masochist to solo level a pvp character. Bring back dishonor for lowbie ganking.
In regard to the meeting stone nonsense. That's what you sign up for. Of course when I try to play my alts, my idiot guildies flag on our PVE server because they want to waste my time with trying to get some Alliance toon to flag. PVP servers are all about hunting and being hunted. The meeting stones should perhaps have guards or a neutral area. In other words, a "Take that sh-t outside" attitude.
Eyegore Dec 26th 2007 5:18PM
I have no opinion really on guards at meeting stones, as I have not found it to be a problem really. I play on an RP-PvP server, I have heard that people may be a bit more mature on such realms but I would not have thought it true till I read some of the comments here. Anyone on a PvP realm should know to be on the way to the instance anyway even if they are expecting a summon... or if you are lucky enough to have a lock around summon somewhere close but out of sight, there was not always the option of meeting stone summons available if you recall.
What caught my eye here was a comment back on the first page that indicates that more of the top PvE guilds are on PvP realms. Again I would not have thought this to be the case, but it makes a certain kind of sense now that I think about it. I am lucky enough to be in a guild that is currently progressing in BT, hyjal cleared. and in the more difficult PvE encounters I can say that there is one thing that separates an ok raider from a great raider. And that is SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Perhaps leveling on a PvP realm breeds this. In the higher end raid encounters there is a lot more going on than 'stand here, heal/kill that guy/monster', you need to have your head/camera on a swivel. An add may appear behind you capable of 1-shotting a cloth wearer on vashj for example, and such random elements that all members of the raid need to be able to recognize and adapt to or die are the rule rather than the exception.
Healthy paranoia and the ability to handle the task at hand while simultaneously waiting for/guarding against that random element that could be appearing behind you at any moment is a quality that servers you well beyond just leveling on a PvP realm.
infection Dec 26th 2007 5:31PM
Umm.. benny... I'm not sure when wow had a system where you lose honor to killing a lowbie that is an acutal player. All I can remember is certain dishonorable kills for certain NPC's.
Was this something in beta that I never played?
And @Imparush... -10 lower than you and you get a debuff?
So 3 lvl 60's jump me and if I kill any of them I get debuffed?
This is why they couldn't put dishonorable kills in the game for regular players. They couldn't code in the math for different situations.
Heck, you could even say 15 lvl 50's attack a 70. There is no way he'd win.. but he would be able to kill some. So with your point of view.. he would be getting the hell debuffed out of him just because he is fighting back?
Play the game, if you hate being 45 and getting ganked.. log off or transfer. Because I can guarantee at some point you will kill a "grey" because they pissed you off or did something to provoke it. I've seen people in guilds I've been in talk all this smack about how it's so stupid to gank when they are GETTING ganked on their alt, and all the sudden turn around on there main and see someone as they are passing by and murder them.
I say, it stopped that alliance (or horde) from being more powerful, if only for a bit. It's legal. It's PvP. It's what makes pvp servers fun.
Believe it or not, you are not on the server to make buddies with the allies or horde and all live in harmony (although maelstrom has plenty of horde that try to do that, to avoid getting killed while in the world) and I think that is sad.
To many people are like the guy this post is about. They just want to pvp WHEN THEY WANT TO. All other times should be reserved for them to do whatever they want with no interruptions. And that goes for lowbies as well.
NOPE. SORRY.
Anaughtybear Dec 26th 2007 5:46PM
Hell no there shouldn't be guards at summoning stones. There should be fewer guards everywhere. That's actually the easiest place to get away from pvp if you want to. You just step into the instance and you are safe from enemy players. People are too damn soft, and Blizzard is too accommodating to them. Does anyone remember when pets had different stats and not everything was normalized? Now it takes less experience to level and there are almost no elite mobs to be found. What more do you want, for Blizzard to just start you out at lvl 70?
theRaptor Dec 26th 2007 6:15PM
PVP occurred on a PVP server? *shock*
It is pretty common to see people on PVP servers whining about PVP. I call these people carebears, they only want to PVP when they have the upper hand. I can respect people who don't want to PVP and roll on PVE, but people who roll PVP and can't bring it, get no respect.