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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast topic: Do PvP servers have casual players?
by David Bowers 
Dec 28th 2007 at 8:00AM
Yesterday's post about summoning stones on PvP servers sparked an interesting discussion with quite a few comments. You all got me thinking about a possible difference in culture between players on PvP servers and those PvE severs. I got the impression that PvP-server players tend to enjoy the more "hardcore" aspects of things, the heightened difficulty, the extra learning that prevents you from just coasting through any part of the game on any sort of autopilot. This isn't to say that PvE players can't be hardcore too (or indeed, very good at PvP) -- it's just that in the regular course of gaming they don't have to worry as much about interruptions from other gamers. I myself have times when I want to get at game rewards with the least amount of effort possible, as well as other times when I wish that the game required a bit more thought on my part in order to make it interesting. Which leads to my question: Are any of you "casual" gamers on PvP servers? Whatever you understand "casual" to mean is up to you, but for me, it's probably someone who spends 10-20 hours playing WoW per week -- if not less than that. If you are a casual player on a PvP server, do you view yourself as both "casual" and "hardcore" at the same time? Do you have characters on a PvP server for times when you want a real challenge, as well as characters on a PvE server for times when you just need to relax?
Filed under: PvP, Breakfast Topics, Leveling
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Alex Dec 28th 2007 9:32AM
I really have to disagree with this, as a recent convert to a PvP server (I play about..12-15 hours a week). It actually just makes it more of a challenge to plan an effective route through what you're doing. ie, you can't say "I'm going to finish THESE five quests," but you need to have several zones in mind where you could get some work done. If you end up getting ganked at one of them, move to the other, etc. Your analysis of skill in PvP vs PvE also doesn't hold up if we take as metrics of skill progression and/or battlgroup/arena standings. It's entirely possible that your experience differs, but on aggregate I think most people would agree that the skill level encountered on PvP is a notch higher. Additionally, I think your every man for himself analogy doesn't hold up against the majority of other posters here - quite on the contrary members of a faction are far more willing to go out of their way to help each other precisely because of the PvP aspect. People know each others classes / skills / abilities much better because they're far more used to having to work with them in fast paced do-or-die situations.
Mephator Dec 28th 2007 9:08AM
I play on a PVP server (Illidan-US) and I'm totally casual. I'd probably prefer a PVE environment but all my friends rolled there and then so did I.
Coanunn Dec 28th 2007 9:17AM
I consider myself a casual player despite playing the game in lieu of watching TV. Any time I would turn on the TV I instead turn on the game. It's interactive and far more interesting than most anything on TV (with the exception of the discovery channel which causes me to die in game alot).
That said my problem with the PVP servers is not getting ganked or even being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's getting camped. quite simply after the 3rd or 4th kill most of the time they leave but the ones who will stick around longer than that forcing me to play an alt are upsetting because I prefer to park in inns and now my corpse is sitting rotting as a marker that some level 70 rogue could kill a level 20. Honestly I consider it a right of passage to get camped for 3-4 kills and players learn to be more aware of their surroundings, but I also know alot of players who would rather not play than deal with the frustration it can cause. It's a game, and playing on a PVP server means you accept that others will try to kill you, "Red Is Dead", don't do it if you can't handle what comes with it but don't go out of your way to ruin the experience of another person playing the game.
Glenn Dec 28th 2007 9:26AM
As alliance on Dark Iron I play pretty casually, It definately helps having a large group of mates in the Penny Arcade Alliance so that there is almost always something going on that i can jump right into. I raid one night a week, occasionaly pop into a Magtheridon or gruul and spend about 2 hours or so riding the AV train (Choo! Choo!) all in all probably only 10 hours or so, mostly during off peak hours.
I do think this is possible only cause I'm speced shadow and since i raided pretty hardcore for the first 5 or so months after BC released I've gotten relatively well geared enough to not blink when confronted with horde. It also helps to have a rogue with both Illidan Glaives in your BG.
Casual on a PvP is possible provided you remember to keep your Gladiators gear on outside of instances.
Hasselhof Dec 28th 2007 9:21AM
I think this is a silly argument. I'm on a pvp server and rarely if ever get ganked anymore. If I "wanted" to get ganked I could do stupid stuff like quest around horde cities or walk around and /rude to hordies but I learned to lay low. As soon as you learn how to avoid trouble, the one or two times you get ganked a week are by no means a huge distraction.
Zach Dec 28th 2007 9:29AM
You're looking at one. While my server's population is low and that might have something to do with it, I hardly find a PvP server annoying, in fact it adds to the challenge. If you're within 6 levels of a player you're probably expected to fight, so you better be sneaky and attack when they're attacking a NPC. But if they're low enough they might have a 70 friend waiting on call. I don't get ganked/camped unless the player (alliance) has nothing better to do so, in which I just log off and come back later. I don't gank if they're 7 or so levels under me. I usually just scare them, or use physic scream every cooldown to annoy them. (unless they attack me, then it's on)
Of course I don't view the game as a time investment to get to 70. I find it fun to play up to 70. In fact it's almost two different games, leveling and end-game. I was recently thinking of creating a alt on a role playing server to enjoy the game more, actually. But I won't unless it's a Rp-PvP, just doesn't have that WoW feel unless it's PvP imo.
bumpkins Dec 28th 2007 9:32AM
Myself and everyone in my entire guild are casual players and are on a PVP server. The majority of us are married with children and have set specific nights and times each week to play (every Tues/Thurs 9:30pm-12:30pm EST). For some of us these two nights, along with just a couple of hours on the weekend, are the only chances we get to play during the week. It does get frustrating when we're trying to accomplish something and keep getting ganked, but I think we've all learned to live with it now. It very rarely ever happens any more in Outland (except for when we were doing the Blood Ring quest chain earlier this year), but back in the days that we kept trying to get into UBRS/LBRS/BRD it would sometimes take us 30-45 minutes just to get in. That gets old VERY quick when you've only got about a 3-hour window to play in. But like I said, things aren't anywhere near as bad in Outland any more. We still gank all the Horde we can when we can (usually just once then we move on; no camping), but only as an act of sweet, sweet revenge.
Eternalpayn Dec 28th 2007 9:32AM
"do you view yourself as both "casual" and "hardcore" at the same time? "
Yes. Finally, someone understands. I don't have a ton of playtime, maybe 10-15 hours a week. 15 on long weekends, 10 normally. However, I need the game to be a challenge. I can't stand EZmode. I'm the asshole in your group that always says "We can 3 man this. I mean, we're halfway through the level requirements. If 5 lower ends can make it halfway through, we can 3man the whole thing." (However, we usually can when people take me up on that.)
So yeah, I might not have a ton of playtime, but I roll PvP, and I play for keeps.
Yoink Dec 28th 2007 9:35AM
I am somewhere between casual and hardcore. Since the penalty for death is so light in this game, I decided to play on a PVP server with my friends. I only ever found ganking by the over-leveled to be bad in STV; but when it's like-leveled world PVP, it is usually loads of fun.
My friends and I came from MMOs where items degraded, corpse runs were required to get your gear back (and players/creatures could drag your corpse away), and perma-death was even possible (ie, total loss of the character). We find we can out-wait or out-wit the corpse campers, though they really don't appear very often.
drew Dec 28th 2007 9:42AM
I'm what I'd consider a casual gamer (my fiance would beg to differ). I started a year ago on a PVE server and had a few co-workers say, "You play WoW, what server? Oh, you should come over to our server (Emerald Dream) that's where all of us are." And I jumped servers, not really knowing the difference. It wasn't until I had gotten into my mid-late 20's that I i wished I had never left a PVE server. Gankfest!!! That is the hardest part about a PVP server. But you do find the other faction players that are like yourself and do not care so much about PVP as they do questing. If I had my preference I'd probably go back to a PVE server.
peaglemancer Dec 28th 2007 9:43AM
I would like to add, that there is no higher, more momentous achievement than winning the fishing contest during Sunday's regular shoreline PvP gankathon!
Razhlok Dec 28th 2007 9:50AM
I guess I'd consider myself "casual" in my playtime (15-20 hours) a week and my guild only raids 2 nights a week. But, "casual" is a loaded term that is relative. I've been playing WoW for 3 years, have a level 70 Hunter in all T4 level epics that are fully enchanted and socketed with rare gems and I pull top DPS doing between 950-1100 DPS in every fight. Hardly casual compared to someone who plays once a week, isn't level 70 and barely knows how to play their class. But, casual compared to the vast number of raiders who clear SSC/TK, have their T5 and raid 3-5 nights a week. :P
Back to the topic... I didn't really choose a PvP server. I followed real life friends to it when the game launched. The description of ruleset on a PvP server in the manual is very different than the actual ruleset of a PvP server. Part of me would have loved to do zones like STV and Un'Goro Crater and not be bothered by Horde. On the other hand, I like the caliber of player that is attracted to the PvP servers. I haven't really had many nightmare PUGs and the only population problems I have had to deal with on my server is long queues during primetime.
Bunkai Dec 28th 2007 10:03AM
Count me in as a casual player. I play on Hakkar (PvP) - US and I've not seen any raid beyond Karazhan (and I've not seen all of it). I have a single piece of Merciless Gladiator's gear and 3 pieces of Gladiator gear. I've just now started up a 2v3 and 3v3 arena teams. I've only managed to get one toon to 70, and he's been 70 since around June '07.
My /played time since hitting level 70 in June is only about 12 days.
If that's not casual... then I misunderstand the meaning of the word.
Bill Dec 28th 2007 10:03AM
I find playing on a PVP server forces me think of new and inventive ways to do seemingly mundane things.
I’ve been leveling my Tauren Druid alt and recently arrived in Arathi Highlands. I got the “Foul Magics” quest which required me to collect amulets from Northfold Manor, but seeing as how a group of Alliance apparently had a similar quest and were camping the mobs I needed, I found myself not only having to collect amulets but also thinking of a way to do it without attracting their attention.
So, even though I’ve done this quest at least four times before (for my other alt characters), this was the very first time I completed it by stealthing into the little houses and killing the mobs out of sight.
Not only did I eventually get an XP reward, but I also experienced the thrill of having outsmarted three similarly-leveled Alliance characters.
(And when I was finished with the quest, the three HK points I got for systematically killing my Alliance competitors sweetened the pot!)
Diaz Dec 28th 2007 10:12AM
I don't like labels so I am not going to take the bait of calling myself 'casual'. I typically play 10 hours or so a week. Draw your own conclusions from that.
I only play on pvp servers now. The one or two toons I had on non-pvp servers I deleted. To be honest my limited run on pve servers was boring. I like not knowing when the next attack is coming. It adds another level of excitement to the gaming experience for me when I don't know what is going to happen next and have to be constantly ready. When another player pulls of a good hit on me I think they should be applauded. I just smile and start looking forward to round 2.
As a side note, I run BGs constantly. I also play the arena but I can't consider that actual pvp as players cannot use all their class abilities and professions in the arena.
Suzaku Dec 28th 2007 10:36AM
I'm casual (have gone months without playing), and my main and primary alt are Horde on a PVP server (a 70 rogue and a 41 warlock). My choice of class may be affected by it being a PVP server (a rogue barely has to worry about getting ganked thanks to stealth), but it's generally not that big of a deal.
There are a few places you want to avoid, Hillsbrad and STV namely, can be troublesome on a PVP server, due to the high density of Alliance players and the fact that many level 70s will head there to cause trouble.
The fun thing about playing on a PVP server, though, is that it creates a sort of hightened sense of awareness. You have to watch your back, know when to walk the other direction, when to get off the road, where it's safe to go AFK, and so on. Yes, sometimes you'll get killed, which usually isn't a big deal, as PVP doesn't result in any durability loss. It's only the rare cases of corpse camping that hinders your ability to play.
However, another aspect is that it generates a lot of camaraderie. If you get ganked, you can all gripe together. There are often higher level players around that are willing to help, or sometimes you'll band together to try and fight back. If you're getting attacked, other players will generally come to your aid. On my server, on a couple occaisions, corpse camping has evolved to 25-main raids on capital cities, which is always very fun (and with PVP revenge, can be even more fun).
Hoggersbud Dec 28th 2007 10:34AM
I play casually on a PVP server, with my hardcore play on a PVE one.
hamiltonerics Dec 28th 2007 10:34AM
I consider myself casual, but I don't necessarily fit your parameters. Most weeks, I play more than 20 hours, maybe more like 30, although this week I haven't felt much like playing at all. However, in that time, I am almost always doing casual, solo activity. I've been leveling alts, or when I get into my Moonkin mode, I do dailies and farm mats and make stuff on my main. And Moonkin mode is fun, btw, yay preserving nature. And, yea, I'm on a PvP server, which just kinda happened by chance after several months of dozens of characters all deleted by now before landing with my Druid main on Smolderthorn. PvP servers can create grief, and griefing, but all in all, I find it a more interesting way to live, and a more realistic thing too. I'm not very good at PvP at all, but I'd rather be considered "bad" than "carebear" I guess. Really, tho, my server choice was pretty random.
Orlagomish Dec 28th 2007 10:44AM
Well I'm definently what you would consider a casual player on a PVP server. I love/hate the personal vendettas I seem to get into with the characters of the other faction. It brings an interesting aspect to the game when you know someone else on the other side is leveling a guy in the same areas and you know you're gonna run into eat other again and again. Than theres always the joys of raiding enemy towns and whatnot.
nekorb Dec 28th 2007 10:49AM
i just wanted to say i don't think 20 hours a week is casual... that is 3 hours everyday of the week....