On age discrimination
by David Bowers 
Jan 2nd 2008 at 11:01AM
In my own experience I've certainly met kids like Fraid who can behave just as well as (if not better than) most of the adults I've encountered in WoW. I've also met players who came across as bragging and became very difficult for me to deal with until a friend said "They're only 12," and I understood. After that, I found it much easier to tolerate the things they were saying as just part of being a teenager rather than some plot to make me feel inadequate. Another time, I went through several 2-vs-2 arena matches in which my friend was strangely quiet, and yet playing very well. Afterwards, my friend explained that it wasn't her at the keyboard, it was her 10-year old friend. This friend isn't very good at typing and talking, but he certainly knows how to play!
Kids can be fantastic players, or lousy ones, just like anyone else you might encounter -- it isn't right to judge them based on age alone. The fair way to deal with kids in WoW is to give them a chance to show their skill, and even to help them improve however you can. If they prove unreasonable, then kick them out the same way you would an unreasonable adult. For those adults who just exclude young people from their activities altogether without giving them a chance, there's no denying it is prejudice -- judging before knowing -- and it often means depriving yourself of some quality talent for your group. Of course, if your guild does some sort of ERP, or other "adult" activities, then by all means, exclude away! But in normal gaming, especially in a casual guild or a PuG, there's really no reason a kid shouldn't be allowed to join unless they've already shown themselves unable to do what's required of them. Anyone who says, "some of these people are not fun to be around, so I'll just exclude the whole lot of them," has some growing up of their own to do.
[Thanks Raegn!]
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
glacialfury Jan 31st 2008 6:28PM
We've got a system that seems unusual - a 25+ only guild with a strict PG-13 language policy, or said another way, language must be used in a way that you'd use addressing a respected teacher or family member. When the older player inevitably asks "If we're all 25+, why do we have to be PG-13?", the answer is "Because we're old enough to know better."
For those of us post-college who DON'T enjoy basking in the multitude of cussing and crude humor that passes for brilliant amongst many (not all) college-age "adults", it is a welcome reprieve. Don't like it? Want to cuss and swear? Find another guild, there are many, it's not as if the rule is a secret when you join.
Too many "mature" players see "mature" as a chance to act exactly the opposite. I'd rather play with the kid who takes the garbage out than with the "mature" player who has to say shit in every sentence.
Bart Feb 21st 2008 8:35PM
It takes all types but...I have been cautioned by a guild master about my language because there was a 6 year old on!!! Currently the people in my guild are harrassing a kid because he hasnt made 60 yet and he is only 8. Seriously...this is out of control.
Set the limit somewhere but enforce something.
Karen Apr 23rd 2008 1:02PM
Kids who can act responsibly are fine in my mind; but there are a LOT of teenagers who a.) can play their classes extremely well but are just downright annoying, and b.) who will jump online and find more fun in bothering a level 70 to run them through solo quests, rather than do it themselves.
These 21+ guilds are a good idea for the most part because, while I realize that some mature teens may get excluded, it's for the gaming fun of everyone.
I for one don't have kids. I'm 23, and I don't plan on having kids anytime soon. When I come home from work, I want to play my game; not babysit :)
skalgrim Jan 2nd 2008 11:10AM
Oh, another flame bait topic. Look, here's the deal. I'm 35 and, in my real life and I don't hang round with teens. Why do I have to justify myself for the same in an MMO?
(Using "I" but not suggesting I feel to blame, or the centre of the topic, but I am one of the demographics).
deviationer Jan 2nd 2008 11:21AM
pretty much the same here. 23 and I don't hang around anyone who is young than 18.
And there is a reason why kids get a bad rep in WoW, they are the ones most likely to suck at their class, or the ones who are like "OMG I HAVE TO LEAVE NOW, PARENTS YELLING AT ME, I HAVE TO GOTO BED"
Matthew Rossi Jan 2nd 2008 11:22AM
If people prove to be unable to discuss a serious topic unreasonably, why is it the fault of the topic? It isn't the fault of the topic or the poster if those responding to it lack the maturity (whatever their age is) to comment appropriately.
Hokuto Jan 2nd 2008 11:24AM
Or the infamous "damn mom is being a bi#&$".
math Jan 3rd 2008 11:23AM
Thats all fine and good but what about the adults that say, "wifey aggro" or "I baby is crying gotta go" or "Sry wife NEEDS me to do something" etc. The problem I have is if a kid acts like a kid, thats what I'm not into when I pay my $15.
Bearskunk Jan 2nd 2008 11:11AM
Life isn't fair. I guess understanding that is a first step away from being a child.
Corrodias Jan 2nd 2008 7:04PM
Exactly. Sometimes your guildmates are going to accept and invite a younger member that you don't like, and there's just nothing you can do about it because they're decent players and you're not that important. It may not be fair, but at least you can still make rude remarks at them and hope to be gkicked for being a jerk so you don't have to look at them any more.
hoeding Jan 2nd 2008 11:14AM
Our guild requirement is 18. I'm not sure of the gm's original reasoning, but you definately notice a difference when raiding. I am well aware that these people what are left are have some great players, they are however nearly always slowing the raid by "afk, gotta take out the garbage" "afk, gotta have supper with the family" "sorry guys, can't stay up late" "gotta drive my sister somewhere"
With our age requirement usually the most serious afk that we get in a night of raiding is "afk 10 secs to get a beer, go ahead and pull" and we skip alot of e-drama,
David Bowers Jan 2nd 2008 11:29AM
Certainly some kids are going to have this problem, but some won't. You could always ask the young person in question if they have a particular bedtime (or other issue that would require them to leave unexpectedly) rather than just assuming. If they do have such concerns, then fine. Some adults might have such issues too, and if so, they should receive the same consequences.
Dan Jan 3rd 2008 8:39AM
It's guilds like yours that make me often need to lie about my age on WoW. I am fully able to pull it off, and like to think of myself as a sign that younger players (I'm only 16) can be as mature as older ones. If no-one suspects that I'm under the age limit, then surely there's no harm, as that means that I'm acting as maturely as you'd expect someone over the age limit to be.
I remember the first time when I revealed my real age on WoW to a few of my old guildies, and immediately I felt as though I was suddenly being zoned out. This to me is prejudice if I ever know it.
As for the point being brought up about younger players having to leave the game more often, I could easily debate this. Surely anyone who has a life has had to leave a group early. If not, then I'm sorrily sad for them, as getting out of the game and having a social life is more important than getting to lvl 70. Indeed, the only reason I have ever left a group early is due to going out with friends, stuff which I've pre-organised and have made sure that the group was aware of.
matt.millermd Jan 2nd 2008 11:16AM
This is not as easy as "just give them a chance." We have inappropriate for younger players chats and comments in guild chat alll the time. It takes away from our enjoyment to have to watch our langauge. And I don't think it's right to ignore age when this is the case. We'll be more than happy to invite you to our 5 mans and such, but it's not going to be possible to join a guild with mature players having inmature discussions. If you want to join a guild as a younger player, you'll have a harder time; it's a harsh reality. There are guilds out there with both mature guild chat and no age requirements, you'll just have to do the research.
David Bowers Jan 2nd 2008 11:27AM
If your guild wants to use adult language, then that counts as "other 'adult' activities" as I mentioned in the article. Excluding young people from the guild for that reason is better than including them.
Millz Jan 6th 2008 6:55PM
what makes you think that just because everyone in a guild is 18+ that they would want to hear all of that stuff?
i personally do not mind the occaisonal burst of cursing, because i myself am guilty of that, but when someone's main palate of words has many "four letter words" on it, i avoid them.
Pogle Jan 2nd 2008 11:16AM
What a horribly patronising article. Why cant we choose who we play with?
Tell you what, you pay my subs and pay me by the hour and then you can choose who I'm playing with.
Until then take your high horse elsewhere.
Raviolisima Jan 2nd 2008 11:17AM
Yeah, we at one point had a guild age requirement not because we thought kids couldn't play the game. It was put in place because as an adult, i don't censor my language. i don't need some stupid angry mom yelling at me because i cursed at her little snowflake during a raid. Sometimes /guild conversation can be a bit too mature for a 12 year old.
Naix Jan 2nd 2008 11:19AM
Being 28 myself I can say that the older you are the less issues you have to deal with so that your wow game is more static. If your older you don't have...
1. Homework getting in the way of a raid.
2. Parents screaming at you over vent.
3. Leave the guild because they found another guild with a cooler name.
4. Have to go to bed by 10pm or mom will ground me from wow.
5. To scream racists comments into vent or cuss every other word.
On number 5. Yes we had some 19 year old saying racist comments every other word, cussing a lot (even when it was not called for), and burping into our ears.
He had to go.
onyx.ceilican Jan 2nd 2008 11:23AM
Kids:
"AFK, mom is yelling at me" - wait around until they finally get back...
It was a KID that we all heard on that hilarious audio of his parents telling him he had to stop playing and he pitched a fit...
Have to listen to HUGE amounts of epeen waving because so and so has 1 point of AP (or +sp dmg, or agi) higher than so and so... so they are the 1337!
Have to say it - Dick and fart jokes... never heard more 'kids' in vent then when a dick or fart joke gets in and then it's a constant Barrens-Chat worthy level of idiocy in vent.
I am glad I stick to mature guilds, even though the one I was in last on Smolderthorn SAID mature... but we had kids in their telling 'n' word jokes, jew jokes, dick and fart jokes, penis jokes, 'your mom!' jokes. I had to leave because it was literally causing my brain cells to commit suicide to listen to vent with those idiots on it.